Poll: A Rant About Emulation!

[Do4600]

All this "grey" area stuff is pretty much the same excuses pirates make anyway, pretty much cheapness and laziness.. If you want to find these games you can, you just still need to pay for them saying its overpriced or hard to find or doesnt support the developer is a pretty poor excuse to what ammounts to piracy. When there are generally a ton on ebay you are just being cheap and lazy.

I agree that piracy is cheapness and laziness and it actually does hurt somebody trying to profit on a body of work, but I really don't see the point in paying $120 for Earthbound. You could say that it's again cheapness and laziness but at this point nobody is being hurt by the piracy, it certainly doesn't hurt the collectors, there will always be people who want the original antique that the content came on, that will never change, so it wont' hurt them.

From a moral point of view with piracy of current software I see that the developer has put effort into a game and they deserve to profit from that game if I enjoy it, but with for instance commodore 64 games, the person that put the effort into the game can no longer receive compensation for my enjoyment of the product, the game is now in the realm of things that are worth money because they are rare, like stamps.

If I actually enjoy the design of a stamp that's worth $97,000 because it's one of only seven remaining from a printing in 1917 should I really have to pay $97,000 to enjoy it? Or couldn't I just blow up a picture of it and hang in on my wall for 27 cents?

You can't do that with video games though. I don't want the original antique kinetoscope from 1894 just give me a $2 dvd that has a good recording of the movie on the kinetoscope. I also don't want the original cartridge, keep it, it's fodder for collectors, I want the digital contents of the cartridge, and there still isn't a way that I can pay for a reproduction of the content on most of those goddamn antique plastic cartridges.

There's no reason somebody should have to pay $140 to buy an original first edition printing of the book Cosmos by Carl Sagan just to read it and no reason why somebody should have to pay $140 to buy a first and only edition of Earthbound just to play it, it's silly, especially when it's already in near infinite quantity online and video game publishers have yet to have any interest in releasing any but a tiny fraction of classic video games. Emulation is literally the only thing that's preserving the history of video gaming right now, it's been over 30 years and the industry is only now beginning to take a brief look back and pull a small handful of games back into the public eye. Until they actually do something proactive with a game like re-release it in a way similar to a books second printing or edition, there is no way the masses can interact with those classics besides shopping for ridiculous "first printings" of video games or emulation.

 

[Glaice]

There are some games that are no longer in production that I could not get via physical means, so I see emulation as a way to play them. If it is not being made, nobody is losing money.

 

[Lady Larunai]

All this "grey" area stuff is pretty much the same excuses pirates make anyway, pretty much cheapness and laziness.. If you want to find these games you can, you just still need to pay for them saying its overpriced or hard to find or doesnt support the developer is a pretty poor excuse to what ammounts to piracy. When there are generally a ton on ebay you are just being cheap and lazy.

I agree that piracy is cheapness and laziness and it actually does hurt somebody trying to profit on a body of work, but I really don't see the point in paying $120 for Earthbound. You could say that it's again cheapness and laziness but at this point nobody is being hurt by the piracy, it certainly doesn't hurt the collectors, there will always be people who want the original antique that the content came on, that will never change, so it wont' hurt them.

From a moral point of view with piracy of current software I see that the developer has put effort into a game and they deserve to profit from that game if I enjoy it, but with for instance commodore 64 games, the person that put the effort into the game can no longer receive compensation for my enjoyment of the product, the game is now in the realm of things that are worth money because they are rare, like stamps.

If I actually enjoy the design of a stamp that's worth $97,000 because it's one of only seven remaining from a printing in 1917 should I really have to pay $97,000 to enjoy it? Or couldn't I just blow up a picture of it and hang in on my wall for 27 cents?

You can't do that with video games though. I don't want the original antique kinetoscope from 1894 just give me a $2 dvd that has a good recording of the movie on the kinetoscope. I also don't want the original cartridge, keep it, it's fodder for collectors, I want the digital contents of the cartridge, and there still isn't a way that I can pay for a reproduction of the content on most of those goddamn antique plastic cartridges.

There's no reason somebody should have to pay $140 to buy an original first edition printing of the book Cosmos by Carl Sagan just to read it and no reason why somebody should have to pay $140 to buy a first and only edition of Earthbound just to play it, it's silly, especially when it's already in near infinite quantity online and video game publishers have yet to have any interest in releasing any but a tiny fraction of classic video games. Emulation is literally the only thing that's preserving the history of video gaming right now, it's been over 30 years and the industry is only now beginning to take a brief look back and pull a small handful of games back into the public eye. Until they actually do something proactive with a game like re-release it in a way similar to a books second printing or edition, there is no way the masses can interact with those classics besides shopping for ridiculous "first printings" of video games or emulation.

I had forgotten about this thread.. Ni No Kuni arrived after a 3 months postage so i havent been checking the forums..

geez is earthbound ever expensive -__-' I just checked ebay, damaged copies for $160+ >.<

art seems to fall into a weird category.. nobody cares if its fake as long as you dont claim it to be anything other than that.. but if they sold the cheap $20 prints of it its probably a bit of an ass move to print out your own.. would paintings fall into public domain?

You are right there is no good reason people should need to pay insane amounts to play any of the old systems, i have nothing against anyone that emulates them (but they are still cheap and lazy ), but its not like im going to call the cops on pretty much every person i know, hell i would have to turn in my mum and dad, they are massive pirates, to the point where they would put half this forum to shame.. they have slowed down since they can borrow dvd's from me now

the current system we have is pretty crap when it comes to games, and it is rather stupid to not release the entire library on wiiware or what not.. maybe hire the people who made the emulator to write on for the wii, or do what that earthbound crew did and offer the free translation

Emulation isn't the only thing preserving the history of gaming.. theres me... and a few other people.. though most probably wont let you into their house and play the nes games they have.. (im working on a solution).. maybe i should build a letterbox system for retro games like the dvd rental place

 

[McKitten]

Actually his statement is almost right. If a company does not reasonably attempt to enforce its copyright, ie sending Cease-and-Desist letters and filing lawsuits, then it loses that copyright.

No, you're confusing copyright and trademark protection. Trademark protection can be lost if you don't defend it because it rests on being unique, and if you don't defend it and it's no longer unique you no longer get legal protection for it. Copyright on the other hand can not be lost ever. Heck, you can't even sell it in all jurisdictions (though in the anglo-american system you can).
Anyway, the only way to lose copyright is if the time limit runs out. Until then, the copyright holder is the one who can give permission to make copies or withhold permission to make copies anyone and from anyone he damn well pleases. That's what "copyright" means, and that's why abandon-ware and the like are on sketchy legal ground. Just because the copyright holders can't be bothered to stop people from copying old stuff doesn't mean they have actually given permission.

Emulation on the other hand is perfectly legal. You buy software, you own software, the purchase contract cannot force you to only use the software on specific systems. Even if the EULA tried to get you to agree to that it wouldn't be valid. Although using an emulator with a copied bios from a console is somewhat of a grey area. Not adressed with any certainty by the law yet, but quite likely illegal.

 

[Dominic Crossman]

My golden role for downloading emulations is - can I still buy this in a way that will financially benefit the people who made the game? If the answer is no then I see no problem with downloading a free version, it's why I haven't ever downloaded an emulated version of say Super Mario Kart onto my pc.

If I can't get a physical copy of game I will emulate.
Only expection is if it is on type online store I.e. psn, xbox live

 

[Edl01]

If it's the only way to play a game then knock yourself out and emulate it. If it can be aquired legally for a reasonable price though then I do think you should buy it.

 

[McKitten]

Emulate doesn't mean pirate. It means playing the game on on a computer with software that simulates the console it'd usually run on. You can buy a game and do that. In fact, you should buy the game if you want to do that and then it's perfectly legal.

 

[Genocidicles]

IF you can only buy the game used or you already own a copy then there is no problem whatsoever with emulation.

If the publishers don't want people playing their old games for free then freaking re-release them.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

There are people who think emulators are bad? Why? Most games that are emulated are out of circulation by this point anyways. It's not hurting the industry in any way shape or form and people get to play classic games.

 

[DirgeNovak]

To me it's okay if it's there is no way to legally buy the game and support the creators. Old stuff from dead devs is fair game. Games unavailable to buy new anywhere is fine. But if you can buy it on a legal platform (i.e. PSN, XBLA, eShop, WiiWare, GOG, Steam, etc.), it's kind of iffy. Not wrong per se, but it's a darkish grey area.

 

[funkyjiveturkey]

i don't see any problem with emulation, it works in the same way as people pirating music going out to buy it if they really like it. there is a huge vintage games market now, and as much as i like being able to play any opld game i want at any time in any way with any controller is pretty cool, but i will always ALWAYS prefer the feel to a console than playing an old game on my computer. this was made a little better when i was able to hack emulators into my wii, but it still aint the same.

i have the entire library of NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari, and some N64 (even though i have most of them on physical copy) but i think it would be so much cooler to have it all physically, especially for bragging rights. i personally plan on starting a small old games collection when the Retron 5 console drops, because it still runs off emulation but requires you to have the physical ROM cartridge. so i can play an old cartridge game on my HDTV with no hassle.

again, it works the same with all piracy. if you download it and you really like it, you'll go out and buy it. besides, many of these ROM cartridges aren't in production anymore and therefor are not being sold new. so the content producers recieve little to squat of whatever is made from used retro game sales. the only people you're hurting by downloading emulators is your local retro games concern which, chances are, will do just fine.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

I see no problem with it. After all, it costs and arm and a leg to get some of the older things. Plus, the people who actually made the game and hardware wouldn't be profiting even if you did buy a used one.

 

[superpandasauras]

In my opinion, it depends on the situation.

Like, if my copy of Pokemon Fire Red suddenly broke, I would probably go and emulate it, but if someone were to just, say, emulate the latest game without buying it, I don't think that it would be right.

 

[The Night Shade]

Anyone remember the game Nightshade on the NES? Loved that, grabbed it and an emulator recently still great. I'd love to see it revived honestly.

Remember? i use the name for this site and i agree the game is great i would love a re-release.

 

[McKitten]

Well, turns out it's easy to see why many people are against it. They don't know what emulation actually is.

 

[Swishdude]

Well, turns out it's easy to see why many people are against it. They don't know what emulation actually is.

Yup, most people just automatically link it to piracy.