Poll: A Song of Ice and Fire Vs The Malazan Book of the Fallen
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I really like both, but prefer Malazan. It's got far less filler, a more interesting world and I find it to be more shocking that ASoIaF at times (holy shit, the end of book 2).
However it did suffer a lot from over-ambition - the ending was great but there was so many plot threads not tied up.
Edit: Oh, as for the favourite character question, definitely Tehol or Bugg, both are just absolutely hilarious and perfect. It's been a while since I read Malazan, so not too clear on the warrens but probably Hood's because Hood is also awesome.
However it did suffer a lot from over-ambition - the ending was great but there was so many plot threads not tied up.
Edit: Oh, as for the favourite character question, definitely Tehol or Bugg, both are just absolutely hilarious and perfect. It's been a while since I read Malazan, so not too clear on the warrens but probably Hood's because Hood is also awesome.
Seeing as I've only read the Song of Ice and Fire books, I can't compare the two, but thanks a lot for making the thread; I've run out of fantasy to read, and was looking for something new. I might just give Malazan a try.
I already have the five books of ASOIAF but I haven't read them yet. neither did I read the other one_ I might be willing to give it a try though_
but I do have a question to ask though: as I'm not a native English speaker I don't know if it's just me or not, but..
am I the only one how find Martin's choice of words kind of_ I don't know_ weird or awkward ?
I don't how to put into words but the language he uses feels a bit strange. I have read a little bit in the wheel of time and Gormenghast and found them to be more, I don't know.... COHERENT? _ although a lot harder_
maybe it's his style or the fact that he's much less elaborate on the garments and aesthetics . maybe because I haven't read enough into the book to judge. but would anyone be willing to explain it to me?( hope I'm not going too off-topic here )
but I do have a question to ask though: as I'm not a native English speaker I don't know if it's just me or not, but..
am I the only one how find Martin's choice of words kind of_ I don't know_ weird or awkward ?
I don't how to put into words but the language he uses feels a bit strange. I have read a little bit in the wheel of time and Gormenghast and found them to be more, I don't know.... COHERENT? _ although a lot harder_
maybe it's his style or the fact that he's much less elaborate on the garments and aesthetics . maybe because I haven't read enough into the book to judge. but would anyone be willing to explain it to me?( hope I'm not going too off-topic here )
I totally agree with you. I still remember during Feist earlier works, a Lord randomly gets taken out by an arrow while sitting on the castle walls and another's horse bucks (from a snake I think), and the guy break his neck. Pointless deaths happen far more than heroic onesBloatedGuppy said:
I also agree with you Elfgore - I never read character descriptions. I write my own stories, and one thing people don't get is the lack of character description, including not identifying gender. It seems to screw with people. Possibly because they have to use their own imagination for characters (possible sarcasm there).
Also if you think ASOFAI is miserable, the epic moments are way more heartbreaking.
And probably the worst book from MBoF is the first one. I don't know whether you could skip it, you'd probably miss out on so much, but number 2 is one of my favourites.
I don't know about the DnD thing since I've never played it, but it MBotF certainly isn't wacky. The whole world as created by Erikson and Esslemont is believable, at least in my experience.DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
Also, both are archaeologists and I believe Erikson is also a trained anthropologist. And it shines through in their works, they deal with a lot of different cultures in their books in a detailed and extensive fashion. It isn't like the Belgariad where Algarians = Mongols, Chereks = Vikings and Tolnedrans = Romans.
Finally, magic really is magic in MBotF. Aside from the previously mentioned Warrens and Holds, there is shamanistic magic, voodoo and all other kinds of magic. However, even without the other kinds of magic there is no clearcut definition for Warrens. Sometimes they seem to be other dimensions through which you can travel, sometimes there seem to be personifications of Warrens present. Warrens can effect the real world (like a fire attack from the Telas Warren). Warrens are very complicated and not like Brandon Sandersons' systems logical or just another science. (Not a criticism on Sanderson's works, I like both kinds of magic systems).
Just wanted to set some things right there, because you seemed to have a skewed view of what the series contained.
I think they getting a "Compare to COD because COD is good" treatment here. I know it sounds silly me saying this but for some reason it isn't wacky. Or maybe no wackier than everyone else.DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
I do have a question for you though - why is this less believable that midget who can only grow long beards, love gold and their only substance is beer or tall, always arrogant, always better than human, long-lived elves? Or is humanoid the only thing that is believable?
My wife hate any sci-fi with anything non-humanoid, as they aren't relatable. So I get it if that's the case
I think I should probably step in here and say that when I said that I was being overly simplistic for comedic value. The hive minded velociraptors (most of whom are zombified too, not that that makes my case any better) make a lot more sense, and are a lot more menacing, in full context. The K'Chain Che'Malle (seriously, Erikson's biggest weakness is his naming) are essentially a reptillian version of the Gaim from Babylon 5; there are hyper-intelligent "matrons" who form large colonies based around advanced machinery, like flying cities, and birth various types of drones to help them around. There's semi-sentient advisors and agents, mindless drones and warriors, and other sorts of stuff. The warrior drones that are born are augmented by their machinery so they attach long blades onto their arms since, after all, they only live to fight. Plus there civilization died out thousands, possibly millions, of years before the start of the books so what little is known is very altered from the truth since it has not been really recorded or investigated. But my original point was that the best way I could praise the books would be to pull a random element form them and show how ridiculous it sounds and then say, but it seems perfectly reasonable when you actually read the book where they show up. My original idea was to go with the army of cannibal peasants whose women rape dieing male soldiers to get pregnant so that they can bolster their numbers, but the hive minded zombie dinosaurs with sword arms sounded funnier to me.DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
But seriously, obviously it's your choice as to what you read or not, but don't let a few random factoids colour your opinion, the books are mostly just about armies of very well developed individuals and their daily lives, inter-cut with detailed battles, broad military campaigns, and examinations of several diverse cultures and civilizations. It's a lot less D&D and a lot more Total War than it sounds.
The same thing could easily be said about almost any element in a sci-fi or fantasy setting, when poorly translated. For example, Jedi and Sith from Star Wars could be described as space knights with telekinetic abilities. And the Others/Wights from ASoIaF as could be very much mistaken as snow zombies. It's kind of silly to make presumptions about a series because of a somewhat off-the-cuff comment about a very minor background element in the setting.trunkage said:
Joe Abercrombie tries waaaay to hard to be dark it goes into grimderp at times.trunkage said:
The reason I don't think ASOIAF is all that dark is because right after it I read Joe Abercrombie's books, almost everyone in it is either useless, an asshole, or gets killed.
There are no good people in it, it's just varying degrees of dicks.
It's overly cynical and the ending of the First Law trilogy is terrible.
Reading Best Served Cold was a slog because it got to the point where I just didn't care what happened to anyone in it beyond Cosca and Friendly, two secondary characters who are still pretty bad people, they're just amusing.
On the up side, the action scenes are well written and so is Logan Ninefingers; the protagonist, but everyone else sucks.
And if you can tolerate everything being that dark than he makes great books.
Joe Abercrombie would be one of my favorite writers if he just lightened up a little.
I bought the first four ASOIAF books on a whim (as they were on sale) but deserted the first one only a couple of pages in; only reached the part where someone's being executed and the character's father is watching to make sure it's carried out or something to that effect. I'm not sure what made me drop it then and there but even now I'm not feeling an urge to continue, maybe some other time. I admit that I mainly bought the books because the show's the current FotM and I thought the books would hook me in.
I recently acquired the first 8 books of MBOTF and am a third of the way through the first one. The book throws you head-first into its setting and new characters pop up what seems every other page but I'm enjoying it and expect to actually finish the series.
I recently acquired the first 8 books of MBOTF and am a third of the way through the first one. The book throws you head-first into its setting and new characters pop up what seems every other page but I'm enjoying it and expect to actually finish the series.
I find a lot of the criticism of G.R.R. Martin a bit lacking when there is never any mention or awareness that he has been writing and editing a science fiction/superhero series since the late 80's called WILD CARDS(currently 21 books, more coming) not to mention numerous other works he has written since the 70's.
He's not a new writer, relatively or otherwise. Judging this one series is one thing; judging him as a writer over all when you've read nothing else of his is, in my mind, a bit shortsighted.
I've been a fan of his since the 80's, (specifically Wild Cards because it was the only running source for the genre I wanted to read and it was well done and engaging as hell) and I can tell you that he has definitely grown into this style of writing over years and you can trace threads of it back to those early works (and see influences from the many other contributors to Wild Cards.)
Also of note is that a lot of that writing came out of role-playing experience. He actively ran games that led to the stories he wrote then. I don't know how much fantasy role-playing he did, but he played GURPS (IIRC) for the development of the WC series.
I definitely enjoy his humor, characterizations, and the suspense he can build. And the deaths? Well, like I said, they have been surprising when revealed, but not a surprise that he does that. Given some of the truly bizarre deaths and twisted tortures found in the WC series... I'm pretty accustomed to that from him. (To be fair, Melinda Snodgrass was even MORE twisted in that series than he has been in this.)
Where Songs is concerned, I can honestly say I had a hard time getting into it, possibly because there are ways it is so different than what I'm used to from him. But once I got to a certain point in the story, I think it might have been the "crowning" of Viserys, I was hooked.
Obvious as one of the largest of reasons many picked up the SoI&F books is because of the Lord of the Rings films hyper-popularizing the genre at the time it did. It just so happened he had released 3 books of Songs before the first of those movies hit theaters. But once fans read through the Tolkien source material for the films, it's pretty clear they were looking for more in the genre when he was "discovered."
I'm pretty happy about the success of it overall, even though I am not entirely happy with some of the changes they have made on the show, but it has all led to negotiations that might mean a Sci-Fi channel movie version of Wild Cards. ^_^
I have never read any of the Malazan series. I might enjoy it, if I ever have time to get to it.
Oh and an additional note: For anyone who started to read Songs and gave up early, but might want to give it another try for one reason of another (for one thing it's much better than the show IMO,) allow me to suggest you listen to the audiobooks of them. Roy Dotrice narrates, does Tyrion far better than Dinklage (not to say Dinklage is bad,) and overall adds a certain flavor to the story you might appreciate. He's British afterall!
He's not a new writer, relatively or otherwise. Judging this one series is one thing; judging him as a writer over all when you've read nothing else of his is, in my mind, a bit shortsighted.
I've been a fan of his since the 80's, (specifically Wild Cards because it was the only running source for the genre I wanted to read and it was well done and engaging as hell) and I can tell you that he has definitely grown into this style of writing over years and you can trace threads of it back to those early works (and see influences from the many other contributors to Wild Cards.)
Also of note is that a lot of that writing came out of role-playing experience. He actively ran games that led to the stories he wrote then. I don't know how much fantasy role-playing he did, but he played GURPS (IIRC) for the development of the WC series.
I definitely enjoy his humor, characterizations, and the suspense he can build. And the deaths? Well, like I said, they have been surprising when revealed, but not a surprise that he does that. Given some of the truly bizarre deaths and twisted tortures found in the WC series... I'm pretty accustomed to that from him. (To be fair, Melinda Snodgrass was even MORE twisted in that series than he has been in this.)
Where Songs is concerned, I can honestly say I had a hard time getting into it, possibly because there are ways it is so different than what I'm used to from him. But once I got to a certain point in the story, I think it might have been the "crowning" of Viserys, I was hooked.
Obvious as one of the largest of reasons many picked up the SoI&F books is because of the Lord of the Rings films hyper-popularizing the genre at the time it did. It just so happened he had released 3 books of Songs before the first of those movies hit theaters. But once fans read through the Tolkien source material for the films, it's pretty clear they were looking for more in the genre when he was "discovered."
I'm pretty happy about the success of it overall, even though I am not entirely happy with some of the changes they have made on the show, but it has all led to negotiations that might mean a Sci-Fi channel movie version of Wild Cards. ^_^
I have never read any of the Malazan series. I might enjoy it, if I ever have time to get to it.
Oh and an additional note: For anyone who started to read Songs and gave up early, but might want to give it another try for one reason of another (for one thing it's much better than the show IMO,) allow me to suggest you listen to the audiobooks of them. Roy Dotrice narrates, does Tyrion far better than Dinklage (not to say Dinklage is bad,) and overall adds a certain flavor to the story you might appreciate. He's British afterall!
I've read ASOIAF and am about 250 pages (from memory) into Gardens of the Moon. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'll continue with it. I really like the system of magic so far and I quite like the fact that Erikson doesn't feel the need to explain something the minute he introduces it (this makes his writing style less clumsy than some) but I just don't feel that the characters or dialogue are on the same level as ASOIAF. I just haven't read any dialogue that brought a smile to my face like in ASOIAF and the characters mostly seem pretty forgettable.
The OP mentions that aside from Tryion that he found the characters to be dislikable. It's possible that I just enjoy dislikable characters (hint, Cersei was my favourite POV character in AFFC).
The OP mentions that aside from Tryion that he found the characters to be dislikable. It's possible that I just enjoy dislikable characters (hint, Cersei was my favourite POV character in AFFC).