Poll: A stereotype that needs to be resolved

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Mathew952

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Feb 14, 2008
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This is a stereotype that has become the backbone of the Conservative party.

All poor people are lazy, stupid, dropped out of High school/ College, don't work hard, want free money, and do nothing.

All rich people are good, caring, generous people who will give away money to fix societal problems, and are hardworking. Like Paris Hilton.

This is quite arguably the dumbest thing I've ever been told. And this is their platform for election. Sure. There are lazy people who abuse the welfare and tax system, and these people deserve to be found and punished. But Can you honestly say, that all of these middle and lower class americans, are where they are, because they didn't work hard enough? Do You honestly think Paris Hilton worked her way to the top? How can such a major political party, be blind to the millions upon millions of americans who put in 50 to 60 hours a week, and still are behind on their bills.

And you know what? Their are greedy douchebag rich people out there. Shocking, I know.

(Obama Plug init)
This is why I agree with the Obama policy. It removes the burden from the middle class, and moves it on to someone who is much better off, and can handle it. I'd like you to chew over a few numbers. If you charged Rich person, making 10 million dollars a year, 40% income tax, as is done now, you'd make 4 million dollars. If you charged 40% on people making, say 100,000 a year, you'd need 100 people to make the same amount of money, plus that middle class person has mortgages, and loans, and all sorts of expenses, that they can barely pay, so Giving them an additional burden makes things much tougher than charging that rich person an extra million. Let's go even lower, to 50,000 a year. you'd need 200 people to pay that off.
The point is, raising taxes by a little on the very rich, can raise many times the money of raising them on the middle class.
Therefore, If We raise taxes on rich people, who wouldn't be feeling very much of a burden, we could releive the middle class by alot, and still have a balanced budget.
 

Bored Tomatoe

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Aug 15, 2008
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Most poor people live in an area with poor education standards, therefore, the work that they can do is hard and doesn't pay very well, and when they have children, the children get a bad education and have to work hard for little as well. It is a vicious cycle of poverty, but most poor people work very hard, and deserve more for what they do.
 

Sirisaxman

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Jun 8, 2008
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Stereotypes exist because, obviously there are some people who reinforce them, but it's never the entire picture. I've found that most poor people actually tend to be crazy, i.e. couldn't hold a job if they wanted to, and are good honest people. Conversely, as the OP said, there are more rich douchebags than not, although I'm sure there are a few that are good people, just not the majority.
 

SteinFaust

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Jun 30, 2008
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there are a lot of poor people who have up to 3 jobs, and are still below the poverty line. but yes, there are a few who just can't be arsed, and I hate them for it.
 

Madshaw

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Jun 18, 2008
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weather its the fault of the poor or not its a lot more effective to tax the rich instead of the poor
 

000Ronald

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Mar 7, 2008
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A guy once asked me once, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"

So I answered him:

"The fundamental problem in what you're saying is a complete lack of awereness in how money works; you can't just take money out of nowhere, it has to be there in the first place (which is why America is having a depression right now, but I digress). What's more, I have to have money in the first place in order to make money, and as I wasn't born into money, this is a near improbability. Sure, there are things I could do, but at the end of the day, someone like you is still gonna have ten times as much as someone like me."

I then subtly added, "And that's why you can afford pot and I have to suffer through all the crap I get dished out."

He had no rebuttle.

Apoloiges for the big, long...thingy (thing like stuff).
 

Mathew952

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Feb 14, 2008
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Yep, no one was ever born in an area with bad schools, forced to go to them because their parents couldn't afford 15,000 a year for private school, and then had no future.
No one was ever prevented from going to college because they couldn't afford it, or came from said public school.
No one was ever laid off from work.
No one was ever hit by a bus, and driven bankrupt by medical bills.
No one was ever robbed.
No one was ever the victim of fraud.
Taxi Driver post=18.74850.848235 said:
The_Logician19 post=18.74850.848213 said:
A guy once asked me once, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"

So I answered him:

"The fundamental problem in what you're saying is a complete lack of awereness in how money works; you can't just take money out of nowhere, it has to be there in the first place (which is why America is having a depression right now, but I digress). What's more, I have to have money in the first place in order to make money, and as I wasn't born into money, this is a near improbability. Sure, there are things I could do, but at the end of the day, someone like you is still gonna have ten times as much as someone like me."

I then subtly added, "And that's why you can afford pot and I have to suffer through all the crap I get dished out."

He had no rebuttle.

Apoloiges for the big, long...thingy (thing like stuff).
Excuses, excuses
 

goodman528

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Jul 30, 2008
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It's a much more complicated problem than just "laziness". Many of the poor and unemployed people I know has never had the opportunities to make their lives a success. If you look at the students in the top universities in America or UK, what are their family backgrounds? What schools did they go to? What opportunities did they have?

Yes, a lot of the time you need to create opportunities for youselves, I've seen this from experience. However, I'm talking about kids, and about all people as a whole. For example, of the people who will make it into investment banks this year, about half of them will get the offer because of family and influential factors (and still worked quite hard), the other half of them will have worked very very hard for it. And of this other half, almost all of them will be from middle class families who have provided them with a lot of opportunities.

"Life is unfair. Get used to it!", lol, and this is exactly the sort of message we are being brain washed with on the media everyday.

When I give bread to the poor, they call me a saint; when I ask why the poor have no bread, they call me a communist.
 

sky14kemea

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Jun 26, 2008
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didnt this start sometimes margeret thatcher was voted into office, she decided too many "lazy" people were just claiming benifits and going back to bed
i know quite a few people who arent that well off, they seem to work pretty hard to me, *although they might slack off when my back is turned you just never know*
i think its an unfair stereotype, but there are the odd people not having jobs because they dont want too
 

Spacelord

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May 7, 2008
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Anarchemitis post=18.74850.848596 said:
A stereotype I think that needs a much greater resolution is Judaism and joking thereof.
As well as equating Scientologist with insane pyramid scheme victim.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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Feb 7, 2008
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I live in Calgary, Alberta and we have a STUPID high number of Working Homeless whom simply cannot afford a place to stay since housing here is so expensive and the jobs you can get while homeless won't get you enough money to find a place.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
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I think it's the opposite, being rich tends to lure you into laziness. But yeah, it's called a stereotype for a reason. :)
 

Dr Spaceman

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Sep 22, 2008
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Books I've read about economics as it relates to the poor often begin with disproving the stereotype of the welfare hog who grows fat and rich off our hard-earned tax dollars. The most famous example of the so-called "welfare queen" are those which Ronald Reagan used in his presidential campaigns in the 80s. Reagan would often tell stories about women in Detroit (or some similar urban area) who were driving nice cars and eating out every night because they had welfare checks and free housing. These stories, incidentally, were almost always completely made up.

Many of these stereotypes are created to foster a sense of "Us" vs. "Them", even when the people being talked to are the ones actually benefiting from welfare and are the ones who stand to lose their benefits. These stereotypes also subtly reinforce racial stereotypes. When a politician talks about the poor person living high off welfare, they are often talking to white voters who will be easily scared by the thought of black people making a living off their money.

To talk about racism for a moment, this is where a lot of our stereotypes come from and where racism in America currently stands. In most parts of this country, overt racism has been done away with. You won't "Whites Only" for bathrooms, restaurants, bars, etc. However, that doesn't mean that attitudes and perceptions have changed. Many Obama supporters are nervous that even though most polls show him to be pretty far ahead of McCain there may be some people who in the privacy of the polling booth will let their subconscious racist attitudes take over.

Boy, way off topic here. Long story short, low-paying jobs are those that often require the most physical labor and I would be remiss in saying that the poor don't work hard.
 

huntedannoyed

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Apr 23, 2008
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The hardest working people in the world are the most poor. As income increases so do insubordinates. Wealthy people don't do crap but tell the people under them what to do.
 

Spacelord

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Madshaw post=18.74850.848206 said:
weather its the fault of the poor or not its a lot more effective to tax the rich instead of the poor
And then the rich, which are usually the entrepreneurs - and therefore employers - move to a country where taxes are lower, resulting in an even lower government revenu and eventually no state treasury to fund a social safety net. With no employers and no wellfare the low skilled workforce (i.e. the poor) will experience even greater poverty.

Also, social stratification (that is, being bound to the class of your ancestors) is something I can't really relate to. Mind you, I'm dutch, and Holland is one of the countries with the most extensive social safety net in the form of unemployment and disability subsidies.

Another thing that defines the Netherlands is the government's decisions that stimulate schooling: there's a government funded subsidy system that donates a monthly allowance to anyone attending state sanctioned education, and there have been several laws instated that allow otherwise uneligible people entry to universities based on tests that measure learning potential and general development.

Long story short: the government of the Netherlands understand that the economic value of Western countries is based on highly skilled people (rather than masses of low skilled, low cost workers - in our current economic position we'd be outclassed by almost all non european and american countries due to instatement of minimum wage) , and tries as hard as possible to support anyone with a wish to become one.

TL;DR: This shit is more complicated than the poll would suggest. Also: What's the situation like where you're from, forumites? Where ARE you from anyway?
 

Logan Frederick

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Aug 19, 2006
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Sirisaxman post=18.74850.848190 said:
Conversely, as the OP said, there are more rich douchebags than not, although I'm sure there are a few that are good people, just not the majority.
Meh, read The Millionaire Mind by Thomas Stanley. It's probably pretty fifty fifty for both ends. There are a lot of poor douchebads and wealthy philanthropists. People as a whole species are probably fifty. If not, then the poor/rich distribution is probably similar to the entire population. Good people are good people, bad are bad, money has nothing to do with it.
 

needsmosleep

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Mar 22, 2008
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Social Darwinism, a popular belief around the US industrial boom (civil war-1900) that the rich were smarter and thus deserved their money more, while the poor stayed poor.
 

John Galt

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Dec 29, 2007
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Spacelord post=18.74850.848661 said:
Anarchemitis post=18.74850.848596 said:
A stereotype I think that needs a much greater resolution is Judaism and joking thereof.
As well as equating Scientologist with insane pyramid scheme victim.
As well as equating Conservative with stereotype-loving ignoramus.

huntedannoyed post=18.74850.848889 said:
The hardest working people in the world are the most poor. As income increases so do insubordinates. Wealthy people don't do crap but tell the people under them what to do.
Because there is no such thing as upward mobility. Bill Gates was born rich, and once I break six figures I get a whip and force the poor to work in my dystopian textile mill while I burn their children with my cigars.

It's people like you that feed the fires of Conservative rage. I think we should both accept that the two camps are populated by people as flawed and hateful as their opponent.
 

Avatar Roku

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Jul 9, 2008
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I know poor people. They work hard. They deserve more than what they get.

On that note, there are also "Welfare queens." A good example is in Million Dollar Baby; Maggie gets rich and buys her mother who lives in a trailer on welfare a house. Her mother's response is "I can't take this house, they'll cut off my welfare. I can't live without my welfare!" She then proceeds to move in with Maggie's name on the deed.