What would be your reaction to a new Duke Nukem game, one that dispenses Forever as a dream and instead opts for both wave-based shooting and a storyline where Duke stops being the singularity of immaturity?
Poll: A test for the market...
- Thread starter Dosbilliam
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That would be like staging Hamlet and removing his indecisiveness. Why bother using Duke if you're not gonna use any of Duke?
No Duke game before it had wave-based shooting, and I don't see how it would improve the franchise. I think that you're confusing Duke Nukem with Serious Sam.
As for Duke's demeanor: It's fine if you don't like it, but this is how Duke is supposed to be like. His character is an exaggerated version of 90's action movie heroes. I don't see why he should become another brooding, gloomy, "mature" hero. We already have enough of those.
As for Duke's demeanor: It's fine if you don't like it, but this is how Duke is supposed to be like. His character is an exaggerated version of 90's action movie heroes. I don't see why he should become another brooding, gloomy, "mature" hero. We already have enough of those.
Johnny Novgorod was here to give kick ass answers and chew bubble gum and he was allllll outta bubble gumJohnny Novgorod said:
Duke Nuke'm is a great parody of character. If you want to change him from what he is to a serious character, you might as well just create a new game. Now I never played Forever (though I do intend to eventually if for any other reason to watch a train wreck) but everything I've heard against it is summed up by Miracle of Sound
Basically, it was caught between new school and old school and completely botched both. If they fully embraced the old school game-play, I think the game could still kill it. Instead, they added modern gaming shooter rules to an old school shooter and it fell apart.
He's going to start out as Duke, but grow a bit, for Duke-y reasons...namely, a woman that kicks more ass than he does WHILE chewing gum.Johnny Novgorod said:
I'm aiming more for the Duke 3D style mixed with Serious Sam; killing multiple enemies with large weapons, but with more durability in combat with about the same movement speed. Also, when I say mature, I mean the human kind, not the macho Marcus Fenix kind that just makes me rather annoyed at the character. The plan is for him to be a little less macho/narcissistic, but not enough to be a completely different character.Doom972 said:
Dosbilliam said:
Why?
Again, why [bother using Duke if you're not using Duke]?
Like... Why? I don't even...
If you're not going to use Duke, then don't use Duke. Make a new character and a new IP. No need to try and manipulate brand loyalty, which is probably non-existent for Duke ATM.
Additionally, no to wave shooting. I hate wave shooting. I hate any wave based anything. If the enemies spawn rather than exist in predefined place [Exceptions for when they are dropped into one preset place by a dropship or something], then my answer is no.
Bringing him into the modern mechanics didn't work, and it's less brand loyalty and more "I don't need to pull a title for the design I wrote 6 months ago out of my ass." Also, I assume that means you prefer cover-based, or the Doom-style that's going to be part of it?Joccaren said:
I would have immense hatred for the new game and blame it all on the new generation having shit taste and creative bankruptcy to leave IPs alone. Duke is everything corny about 80/90's action heroes, he's not suppose to be high level entertainment. I liked DNF for keeping with the out of date style even if everyone else hated the game for it. If you want to make something completely different make the name different too.
Eh.... Wave-based games are getting rather played-out now I think. Every other game seems to have a hoard mode these days.
As for duke growing up, naw you can't do that! The rest of the world however, reacting to his over-the-top ways would be interesting.
A duke-style shooter can still work. Serious sam is still fairly popular and hopefully blood dragon will go down well to show theres still a market for these kind of games. Not everything has to be grimdark gravelly matureness.
As for duke growing up, naw you can't do that! The rest of the world however, reacting to his over-the-top ways would be interesting.
A duke-style shooter can still work. Serious sam is still fairly popular and hopefully blood dragon will go down well to show theres still a market for these kind of games. Not everything has to be grimdark gravelly matureness.
To me, the best Duke Nukem we could get to me is him acknowledging that the industry has grown up around him and now in his 40's going through a mid-life crises. He is still in great shape though is having a hard time keeping his body shape thanks to age(graying hair and all) trying to fit in this new wave of shooters. Being a parody of both 90's and the new wave, making jokes at shooter mechanics in general. This is not him saying that the new games suck but what we have lost which is variety and that we don't have enough lighthearted shooter out there.
My dream anyway. XD
My dream anyway. XD
Y'know, I was just thinking that part of the problem with DNF may have been that some things we're willing to either laugh at or at least let slide in a cartoonish 2 & 1/2 D shooter we're less tolerant of in a quasi-realistic 3d polygonal space. I might have been willing to let things like the "glory hole" gag pass in D3D...
...All right, so, yeah, most of the writing was pretty much crap in any format. Anyway, back to the original question:
I think Yahtzee may have had the right idea that the only way to make Duke humorous in the current environment would be to stop expecting people to laugh with him and recognize that we're at a point we're more likely to laugh at him. God knows, the Duke we were presented with in DNF deserved to be laughed at. No macho action hero should end that many levels by getting knocked on his ass.
But if you're just going to "play it straight", there's about as much reason to use Duke as there was to make Syndicate a first-person-shooter- which is to say, the name recognition isn't going to be worth it since you're just going to alienate whatever fragmented core audience remains.
...All right, so, yeah, most of the writing was pretty much crap in any format. Anyway, back to the original question:
I think Yahtzee may have had the right idea that the only way to make Duke humorous in the current environment would be to stop expecting people to laugh with him and recognize that we're at a point we're more likely to laugh at him. God knows, the Duke we were presented with in DNF deserved to be laughed at. No macho action hero should end that many levels by getting knocked on his ass.
But if you're just going to "play it straight", there's about as much reason to use Duke as there was to make Syndicate a first-person-shooter- which is to say, the name recognition isn't going to be worth it since you're just going to alienate whatever fragmented core audience remains.
By having wave based shooting, you remove the exploration element which was very important in Duke Nukem 3D, since the game will just feature a lot of large open environments like Serious Sam has.Dosbilliam said:
By making Duke less macho/narcissistic, you make a completely different character, because those traits define him.
Would you not prefer a new IP based on your idea with a character that you actually like?
So, again, why Duke, and why not some other IP that you can clone your name off? Why not leisure suit Larry gets a Gun? It makes about as much sense for the franchise as Duke becoming serious does. Or you could just come up with a name for it. Probably the better move.Dosbilliam said:
Never played Doom, but I like it more the way it is in Bioshock. Enemies are in the level, pretty sure they respawn which is a little annoying but if done well IDC, and you go around the level and explore on your way to objectives, killing what is in your path. Or the Halo method which was similar, but more linear and with a couple of wave sections - which were done with dropships to make sense. Cover based shooting is the most boring thing I have ever played - sit in cover until your enemy leaves cover, shoot a couple of times, back in cover 'cause one of the other 7 enemies has started shooting you, out of cover for another couple of shots - ect. Old style shooting is the way to go, wave spawning is not.
That was going to be part of it. The annoying parts of him would be blown up to about 5 times their level in DNF, so he isn't portrayed as someone to look up to.daveman247 said:As for duke growing up, naw you can't do that! The rest of the world however, reacting to his over-the-top ways would be interesting.
That's actually about what I have planned. The storyline starts out with him being in bad shape, though, as a sort of reversal of fortunes from DNF, since he can't afford a place to live, much less steroids. It was going to be as referential as DNF was, with DNF being the butt of many jokes, and having a sense of humor that isn't the over-the-top style of Borderlands or the half-done Bulletstorm type.ThePuzzldPirate said:
For example, one of the main dialogue exchanges I have planned out so far goes something like:
Duke walks up to a Marine taking cover behind a chest-high wall.
Duke: "Why are you hiding behind that wall?"
Marine: "As long I have my wall, I'll never die!"
Duke: "Hiding behind walls is for *word edited for forum rules*"
Marine: "What, do you expect your Ego to deflect bullets?"
Duke: "Yeah, pretty much. It's worked so far."
Marine: "It's your ass."
Then a burst of gunfire from an enemy pops the Marine in the head with Duke being missed completely.
It's pretty much a "this guy's an idiot even though everyone else around him dies first." I don't take him seriously because of my feelings towards the character, so it'd be easy to find ways to portray him as a complete idiot.Callate said:
That was actually one of my problems with the Serious Sam series. The combat worked good, but the level design made finding anything pretty much a matter of luck. As I've said in comments after this, I'm going to raise the level of those traits to about 5 times what DNF had them to make fun of the character.Doom972 said:
Also, this is more of a thought experiment as a GDD for an application. I have a handful of my IP ideas, which this is sort of using one of them that WAS a Serious Sam-style game all around. Most of the gameplay in DNF, like the weapons and enemy design, is good enough to keep, but the NPCs were terrible when they weren't bland, Duke is someone that's kind of irrelevant as a role model (assuming he ever was one) and the storyline and dialogue were worse than the kind of thing I come up with on 3 hours of sleep and crashing from an energy drink.
Keeping with the essence of the character, though, the female NPC that is pretty much the only reason he attempts to mature is going to be so oversexualized she makes Bayonetta look like a nun.