Poll: Affirmative Action

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JakePwnsAtLife

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Mar 7, 2008
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So, I was doing my American Government class work and I had to research the Supreme Court case Regents of the University of California v. Bakke. It was basically about affirmative action preventing a student from getting accepted into their medical school because his race quota was already filled and they selected less qualified students of another race rather than him. The courts decided in his favor, but affirmative action continues. I want to know your opinions on the process of affirmative action and your general feelings towards the subject. This is not a petty "racism" debate, I just want to know if, like me, you think to do away with the whole process and just select any candidate no matter what race based solely on qualifications. Let race play no part of it.
 

Cpt_Oblivious

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Jan 7, 2009
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If they have the qualifications they should be allowed in. If an equally qualified person of a different ethnicity applies later then that's not racism, just speed. You can't have a race quota, it's just stupid.
 

Branovices

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Oct 15, 2008
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While the whole issue is sticky, you cannot deny that a young person growing up in an affluent home has far better chances at getting ahead in life compared to someone from a very poor home. Statistically there are far fewer well-off people of color, therefore fewer family connections to help you get ahead with good education and jobs.

If your dad or mom was a lawyer, what are chances of success compared to if you dad or mom worked in factory or in the service industry.

To level the playing field, and to clear away the racism that -does- still exist in established high-end jobs, something like affirmative action should be used. Obviously it's very flawed but there is no perfect fix for this problem that was centuries in the making. Eventually, if everything goes according to plan there will be no need for affirmative action because we'll have a more even playing field for everyone.

While i'm on the subject people seem mistaken in thinking black people get the biggest advantage from Affirmative action and that's certainly all you hear about. The fact is the biggest winner from affirmative action so far has been white women.
 

Krakyn

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Mar 3, 2009
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Affirmative action is ridiculous. I have Hispanic and Asian friends who agree as well. My black friends however strongly support affirmative action.

Being successful in this world shouldn't be about survival of the most pitied, but the fittest.
 

stinkypitz

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Jan 7, 2008
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Affirmative action is a pretty racist concept when you think about it, because it treats people differently based on race.
 

Johnnyallstar

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Feb 22, 2009
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I went to high school with a kid who was hispanic, and he bragged about getting into Michigan university over two white kids with slightly better scores because he was a "minority." Now good for him, but that's racist discrimination against the other two white kids isn't it?

At one time it may have been necessary, but now, it's the governmental equivalent of a ruptured appendix. A vestigial gland that needs to be removed before it damages the body.
 

L.B. Jeffries

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Nov 29, 2007
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JakePwnsAtLife said:
L.B. Jeffries said:
Define qualifications.
Like for schools, GPA, SAT/ACT scores, class rankings, etc. That sort of thing. Academic based.
Then I'd say some variation of the policy is still necessary but basing it on ethnicity alone is now and was back then illegal. Schools factor in things like economic background, regional differences, and financial aid as well.

The problem with standardized tests is that people from regions with particularly bad schools are at a disadvantage over others. The opportunity to gain a higher education should be available to anyone who wants it despite the lack of education they have starting out.
 

DreadfulSorry

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Affirmative Action is crap. If I get a job, I want it to be because I'm qualified for that job, not just because I'm a woman.
 

Spacelord

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For an exam (I study Human Resource Management) we had a case file where we needed to hire a new manager for the ER department of a hospital. We had our pick of 5 resumes, as well as a brief life's history. In our instructions it said specifically that "in case of equal qualification, we prefer someone of foreign descent".

However, as we were assessing the prospects, it became increasingly certain that the one foreign applicant, a 36 year old single mother with limited relevant work experience and training, was simply not as qualified as this one man, a 40-something economist from a prestigious university and plenty of management experience. So, I opted to pick the latter in spite of this form of affirmative action.

This is pretty much how affirmative action should work. Instead of instating quotas (like, what the hell?), the only remotely fair way of affirmative action seems to be this one.

Thoughts?
 

Theon Tonarim

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Oct 26, 2008
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I want the person with the best qualifications for the job to get the job, regardless of race or gender.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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My thoughts are that Affirmitive action needs to not only be done away with, but some action needs to be taken to reverse the damage which it has already caused.

Let me be honest here, part of the entire arguement is America-centric to begin with. Whites are a "racial minority" globally. Asians and Blacks both heavily outnumber "us" as Africa and Asia are literally packed to the gills with people.

When people talk about "minorities" they are usually speaking simply within the cosm of America. Such arguements tend to ignore the increasingly global economy and the fact that we do not keep our citizens prisoner. A white guy going overseas to work a better job is likely to be a minority where he winds up working. To some extent Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, etc... have an advantage in purely racial terms when looking at things in terms of a global market.

The point here being that the issue is a huge joke as things currently exist.

Back prior to the 1960s I suppose there was an American issue largely based on our principles as people were willing to discriminate. It wasn't just against Blacks and such though, they are simply the most ridiculously vocal. There was a time when people hung up signs like "Irish need not apply". The ethnic white/black issue is largely based on a guilt trip over America's extremely short term implementation of slave trade. Guilt largely based on a lack of understanding about what actually occured, why, and of course the scope of history and the fact that Blacks have also enslaved whites, and probably in greater numbers and over a longer period of time than white people have even had civiliations. Consider that the dark skinned "races" were developing civiliations in the Fertile Crescent region before the advent of White civilizations like Greece and Rome. They heavily raided the white peoples who were actually little more than savages at the time. Even with the advent of "white" civilization in the Mediterranean you still had the europeans as barbarians running around in furs and basically being poached by everyone who could get there. This was a time period when people we know as like "The French" were known as "The Gauls".

But of course today people don't think about it in the overall scope of things, listen to a bunch of propaganda, and go "OMG we did this unprecedented, horrible thing". This is what makes the issue of Affirmitive action so difficult to deal with because there are people who actually have been convinced that minorities DESERVE advantages over the majority as some kind of repairation.

In reality the turning point for racism in the US was the 1960s. Since like the 1980s Affirmitive action increasingly became a joke. People have been argueing since then that racism was dead as a mainstream phenomena, but nobody wanted to listen. Just now in 2008 we received an unignorable proof in the form of the election of Barack Obama, who simply could not have been elected without the support of Mainstream America. What's more in a deadlocked system he managed to get people to cross party lines for him in fairly sizable numbers (well sizable under the current situation).

As such, affirmitive action is simply an institution for reverse racism. Supported both by people who like the advantages (ie everyone wants to get ahead regardless of race and will take any advantage they can get), and by people who are basically afflicted by sociological masochism and screaming "punish me, I deserve it" due to an ongoing propaganda guilt trip over slavery, which typically lacks any kind of global/historical context when people are exposed to it.

Speaking for myself, I feel there is no inherant differance between whites and blacks for example. Anything that is there is sociological/cultural/sub-cultural. I however refuse to feel guilty because my grandparents might have been racist, and my great grandparents might have owned Black slaves. My general attitude is "so what, every person of every ethnicity on the planet, has some ancestor who owned slaves. Big, fat, hairy, deal. Get over it.". When you get down to it, whites are the new kids on the block so to speak anyway.


So basically, I'm all for getting rid of affirmitive action, but also for encouraging the retroactive removal of people who obtained jobs they were underqualified for at the time they received them due to the need to fill a racial quota. With perhaps a cut off date of say 1979. So basically if you've been working your job 30+ years your not a factor, but otherwise.... bouncy, bouncy. Reapply.


Sorry if this is not a popular viewpoint. As a sociological issue, affirmitive action is one of those things that gets my goat on a lot of levels. In the very beginning it was a nessicary tool. It has LONG since outlived having any viable purpose.

Right now racism in the US is only a word people use to dredge up some quick attention in connection to video games like Resident Evil 5 and such. There is no validity to it, except in dealing with tiny fringe elements with no teeth (and this IS a free country, these guys have a right to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. They are harmless and basically the jokes of society at this point). I think that people who scream "racism" should be treated like those who yell fire in a crowded movie theater. I don't care if they are political, journalists, or message board posters.
 

RetiarySword

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Apr 27, 2008
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Fuck racial quota! If a student is more qualified then they deserve to be there more than the other guy.
 

Shycte

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Mar 10, 2009
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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
Shycte said:
The one with the best grades should get in first.

The end
That assumes college is a reward and not a place of learning.

Shouldn't the one who will wind up the most educated by a college experience get in first? Shouldn't school be like the pro sports draft, where no one cares if you were MVP in college, people only care about your chances of becoming MVP in the pros?

Or maybe not. Just...there's a question there I don't think you're answering of how colleges should select candidates: on the basis of their accomplishments before college, or on the basis of their potential to benefit from college?
Their accomplishments before college. College should be the reward for hard work in high school. Otherwise what is the point of studying hard in the first place if you can't get in to college.

This hole "race quota" thing only increses the feeling that black and white is diffrent.
 

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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Personally, I think that the thing that many opponents of affirmative action forget is that not all discrimination is overt, or even conscious.
 

Iron Mal

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Jun 4, 2008
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Discriminating against white people (for the benefit of people of other races) is still, by definition, racism.

I find it odd how the ethnic majority can be on the recieving end of discriminatory behavior/attitudes and can't complain without being seen as 'over-reacting' or 'trying to be ironic'.

I agree that everyone should have a fair chance in our society, regardless of their origins.
This means that white people should not discriminate against black/asian/hispanic people while at the same time this also means that black/asian/hispanic people do not have the right to discriminate against white people (whether they think it is deserved/ justified retribution or not) since that would be racist (yes, it is possible to be racist against white people).
 

JWAN

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Dec 27, 2008
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Its like what Regan said about the high amount of Asian students who were getting into college in California

If you work hard to get into college you deserve to get into college no matter what your race is.