Poll: (Another) feminism discussion

[Vegosiux]

As far as i know both women you showed have no personality or any defining characteristic but their looks at all.

Let me illustrate:

Spoiler

Do you know what the difference between both women is? The first one was an obvious fan service provided to us by EA and the second was how Westwood used to do it. But do you know how they DONT differ? Personality and role wise. They both did the same: brief you on your missions.

While true that "brief you on the missions" is all that Mitsuru does for the first few hours of the game, she does have a lot more personality, defining characteristics and plot significance as the time goes on.

 

[generals3]

While true that "brief you on the missions" is all that Mitsuru does for the first few hours of the game, she does have a lot more personality, defining characteristics and plot significance as the time goes on.

I think you got my post wrong

 

[Vegosiux]

While true that "brief you on the missions" is all that Mitsuru does for the first few hours of the game, she does have a lot more personality, defining characteristics and plot significance as the time goes on.

I think you got my post wrong

Yes, from what I gathered you were drawing an analogy. Apparent, you weren't. So, 'scuse me for the misunderstanding.

 

[generals3]

While true that "brief you on the missions" is all that Mitsuru does for the first few hours of the game, she does have a lot more personality, defining characteristics and plot significance as the time goes on.

I think you got my post wrong

Yes, from what I gathered you were drawing an analogy. Apparent, you weren't. So, 'scuse me for the misunderstanding.

Actually what i wanted to illustrate was simply that looks doesn't say anything about the character.

I don't know either of those that errt posted and thus for me, as far as i know, they could both have the personality of a shoe. I illustrated that by giving an example from the C&C series where sexualization or non-sexualization aren't traits which somehow allows someone to draw conslusions about said character's depth or personality.

 

[Snowbell]

Yes there's a massive problem with oversexualisation in video games, it's creating a gender stereotype that people simply can't live up to and it's making them depressed!

I mean just look at those things - they're huge!

I am, of course, talking about men being portrayed, especially in Triple A games as beefy and powerful with abilities that no human could ever have. This leads to the young men who play it feeling inadequate as a result and sometimes attempting to over compensate by hitting the gym hard, being general douchebags because that's 'manly' and sometimes even going as far as steroid abuse in order to achieve that 'perfect' male figure.

I figure you already know the female side of the argument so I'll leave that to someone else.

 

[Zenn3k]

Anita Sarkeesian is a moron.

Frankly I automatically dismiss the opinions of someone who doesn't allow voting or comments on their videos. Shows they aren't trying to have any kind of actual discussion on the topic, and just want to shout rhetoric at people.

 

[thebakedpotato]

Every single fucking female character ever either being ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped? Yeah, yeah... that's a problem.

But... not every single female character is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped...

So there's no problem! Hooray! We solved gender equality in games!

What about the rest of the world?

That's fine too, because not every single woman is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped!

Gender equality in the rest of the world solved, then?

Exactly! Well done people, we can all go home.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/02/15/steps-devil-0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/women-and-equal-pay-wage-gap_n_3038806.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai


Well... If you say so... I guess I'll order a cake then.

 

[Abomination]

Every single fucking female character ever either being ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped? Yeah, yeah... that's a problem.

But... not every single female character is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped...

So there's no problem! Hooray! We solved gender equality in games!

What about the rest of the world?

That's fine too, because not every single woman is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped!

Gender equality in the rest of the world solved, then?

Exactly! Well done people, we can all go home.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/02/15/steps-devil-0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/women-and-equal-pay-wage-gap_n_3038806.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai


Well... If you say so... I guess I'll order a cake then.

Clearly you don't see that 2/3 of those are just examples of our religious freedoms being encroached upon by cultural dissidents.

 

[thebakedpotato]

Every single fucking female character ever either being ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped? Yeah, yeah... that's a problem.

But... not every single female character is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped...

So there's no problem! Hooray! We solved gender equality in games!

What about the rest of the world?

That's fine too, because not every single woman is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped!

Gender equality in the rest of the world solved, then?

Exactly! Well done people, we can all go home.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/02/15/steps-devil-0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/women-and-equal-pay-wage-gap_n_3038806.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai


Well... If you say so... I guess I'll order a cake then.

Clearly you don't see that 2/3 of those are just examples of our religious freedoms being encroached upon by cultural dissidents.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of me ordering the "Gender inequality solved" cake.
I'm ordering it from a bakery in Saudi Arabia... But the lady on the phone says she can't deliver it to me because it's illegal for her to drive.

That's odd...

 

[Abomination]

Every single fucking female character ever either being ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped? Yeah, yeah... that's a problem.

But... not every single female character is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped...

So there's no problem! Hooray! We solved gender equality in games!

What about the rest of the world?

That's fine too, because not every single woman is ridiculously sexualized and/or kidnapped!

Gender equality in the rest of the world solved, then?

Exactly! Well done people, we can all go home.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/02/15/steps-devil-0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/women-and-equal-pay-wage-gap_n_3038806.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai


Well... If you say so... I guess I'll order a cake then.

Clearly you don't see that 2/3 of those are just examples of our religious freedoms being encroached upon by cultural dissidents.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of me ordering the "Gender inequality solved" cake.
I'm ordering it from a bakery in Saudi Arabia... But the lady on the phone says she can't deliver it to me because it's illegal for her to drive.

That's odd...

She's simply enjoying her religious freedoms. Why can't you understand that?

 

[Silvanus]

There is an issue with sexism in video games, yes. There's an issue with sexism in film and TV, too.


People do some impressive mental acrobatics to avoid admitting its there.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I still don't have a fucking clue what the issue is here. Why do people care so much about the artstyle in these games? How does it possibly affect anyone negatively at all?

Frankly anyone who seriously finds this kind of thing offensive needs to fucking reconsider their priorities in life.

So, when Yahtzee or anyone else criticises the modern shooters for being too grey and brown, do you say the same thing?

Art-style is a part of the game, why should it be immune of criticism?

Of course it should be open to criticism. I'm pointing out how absurd it is for someone to actually be offended by this. If someone finds these cartoon characters in a video game offensive then I will laugh at how fucking ridiculous that notion is.

 

[generals3]

There is an issue with sexism in video games, yes. There's an issue with sexism in film and TV, too.


People do some impressive mental acrobatics to avoid admitting its there.

My brain likes some good work out

Though one should define "sexism" first. It's broad and used in so many ways that you could probably call anything sexist.

 

[thebakedpotato]

She's simply enjoying her religious freedoms. Why can't you understand that?

You're right. Lack of choice in the matter is freedom. What was I thinking?
I'll go ahead and let Websters know that one of their definitions is wrong. Because after all... Gender inequality's fixed! We have the cake to prove it.

 

[Abomination]

She's simply enjoying her religious freedoms. Why can't you understand that?

You're right. Lack of choice in the matter is freedom. What was I thinking?
I'll go ahead and let Websters know that one of their definitions is wrong. Because after all... Gender inequality's fixed! We have the cake to prove it.

When her husband delivers it, at least.

But that might take some time as he's getting married to his 4th bride - this one was betrothed to marry at 14 by her father in exchange for a more favorable salary.

 

[thebakedpotato]

She's simply enjoying her religious freedoms. Why can't you understand that?

You're right. Lack of choice in the matter is freedom. What was I thinking?
I'll go ahead and let Websters know that one of their definitions is wrong. Because after all... Gender inequality's fixed! We have the cake to prove it.

When her husband delivers it, at least.

But that might take some time as he's getting married to his 4th bride - this one was betrothed to marry at 14 by her father in exchange for a more favorable salary.

Equality!
But you do see the folly of putting up "Mission Accomplished" banners just because it's better than it used to be I hope. I mean simply saying that this is as good as we can do is an insult to the progress those before us made. And the progress we owe those who come after.

One of the sacred duties of all human beings, in fact all living things for that matter, is to make life easier and better for those that come after. Through individual struggle or large actions.

And failing to do so just squanders all your potential.


Iunno... Just my thoughts on the whole thing I suppose.

 

[Yuuki]

Is there sexism in video games? Yes.
Do I care about it? No.
Why don't I care about it? Because I have no clue who I would be fighting for. It's not for real women, that's for fucking certain.

Getting offended/angry over a bunch of pixels/lines that exist within fictional/fantasy scenarios created by a developer/writer strikes me as hilarious.

Videogames, movies and basically all forms of media are created by someone and created for someone. Always. Even the most broadly-appealing/homogenized shit.

So first look at the creators, analyze who and what they are. Then analyze who they are making their product for. The answer to this supposed "issue" is right in front of people, if they're willing to open goddamn their eyes (and brains).

People like Anita Sarkeesian had a chance to make me care about sexism in gaming, convince me that it's a very serious and real issue. But so far she has only pulled an extremely brief mention of it's impact on real life in her Damsel In Distress Part 2 video - violence against women in games is subtly linked to violence against women in real life. I laughed, and then I sighed. My care-o-meter went from 0.5% to 0.01%.

 

[Abomination]

She's simply enjoying her religious freedoms. Why can't you understand that?

You're right. Lack of choice in the matter is freedom. What was I thinking?
I'll go ahead and let Websters know that one of their definitions is wrong. Because after all... Gender inequality's fixed! We have the cake to prove it.

When her husband delivers it, at least.

But that might take some time as he's getting married to his 4th bride - this one was betrothed to marry at 14 by her father in exchange for a more favorable salary.

Equality!
But you do see the folly of putting up "Mission Accomplished" banners just because it's better than it used to be I hope. I mean simply saying that this is as good as we can do is an insult to the progress those before us made. And the progress we owe those who come after.

One of the sacred duties of all human beings, in fact all living things for that matter, is to make life easier and better for those that come after. Through individual struggle or large actions.

And failing to do so just squanders all your potential.


Iunno... Just my thoughts on the whole thing I suppose.

... I fear you don't realize I was being sarcastic from the start.

I took a hyperbolic statement at face value and just ran with it.

 

[thebakedpotato]

She's simply enjoying her religious freedoms. Why can't you understand that?

You're right. Lack of choice in the matter is freedom. What was I thinking?
I'll go ahead and let Websters know that one of their definitions is wrong. Because after all... Gender inequality's fixed! We have the cake to prove it.

When her husband delivers it, at least.

But that might take some time as he's getting married to his 4th bride - this one was betrothed to marry at 14 by her father in exchange for a more favorable salary.

Equality!
But you do see the folly of putting up "Mission Accomplished" banners just because it's better than it used to be I hope. I mean simply saying that this is as good as we can do is an insult to the progress those before us made. And the progress we owe those who come after.

One of the sacred duties of all human beings, in fact all living things for that matter, is to make life easier and better for those that come after. Through individual struggle or large actions.

And failing to do so just squanders all your potential.


Iunno... Just my thoughts on the whole thing I suppose.

... I fear you don't realize I was being sarcastic from the start.

I took a hyperbolic statement at face value and just ran with it.

Well that was silly of me then. Oh well.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Is there sexism in video games? Yes.
Do I care about it? No.
Why don't I care about it? Because I have no clue who I would be fighting for. It's not real women, that's for fucking certain.

Getting offended/angry over a bunch of pixels/lines that exist within fictional/fantasy scenarios created by a developer/writer strikes me as hilarious.

Videogames, movies and basically all forms of media are created by someone and created for someone. Always. Even the most broadly-appealing/homogenized shit.

So first look at the creators, analyze who and what they are. Then analyze who they are making their product for. The answer to this supposed "issue" is right in front of people, if they're willing to open goddamn their eyes (and brains).

People like Anita Sarkeesian had a chance to make me care about sexism in gaming, convince me that it's a very serious and real issue. But so far she has only pulled an extremely brief mention of it's impact on real life in her Damsel In Distress Part 2 video - brutalizing women in games is subtly linked to violence against women in real life. I laughed, and then I sighed. My care-o-meter went from 0.5% to 0.01%.

It's not about fighting for the rights of the characters themselves in my case. For me, it's fighting for improving the representation they provide.
Despite it all, that code, unliving, unthinking, unfeeling, is a representation of women.

The female characters can be emmisaries of sorts to female gamers, believe it or not. It's no secret that oversexualization, or unrealistic sexualization can turn off a woman from playing a game. Or heck, some guys are turned off by it. With such things being the norm, I'd think that the gamer market as far as women go, and some of the guy market is smaller than what it could be.

If that doesn't appeal to you, then consider this! If we see more female representation, that would, most likely, lead to a better variety of playable characters, points of view, and perhaps, even a larger variety of genres being introduced into the gaming world.
I'm pretty certain more variety would come into the gaming world. Is that not a good thing?