Apparently, there are documents coming to light stating that the Japanese were in the process of surrendering withing the month when the bombs were dropped. If that is the case, the dropping of the bombs was to "see the effects on actual people and cities" turning the whole thing into either a show of force towards the world or just making the victims labrats or something.. Anyway, this is a totally different discussion, and needs more research before it is taken.Talshere said:
Poll: Are human beings born good or evil?
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I believe in Tabula Rasa. The notion of being "born evil" sounds far too much like a lazy excuse for the transgressions of others. And while we're on the subject of human personality alignments, I wonder whether humans can be born Chaotic or Lawful?
I think I heard of something similar to this when william Wordsworth (a truly retarded poet in the early-ish 19th century)and some friend of his tried to test the idea of the 'noble savage' theroy of human morals.
This archetype is basically that if a human is left to grow exposed to the natural world without any human contact, not only will they prove to be a functional human being, but will be morally superior to those that have been raised among other humans who presumably have been taught right from wrong. They're probably also seen as being wiser and better in other ways to.
They used the friend's infant son. (he might have been about 5 I can't remember)
As you can imagine, 10-13 years of the not only failed to produce the desired result, but permanently screwed the child's ability to function within the society of the time. Making this another reason to hate Wordsworth if his poetry wasn't already enough.
Within the topic of the thread, this can be seen as an example that humans need to be taught what ideas, emotions, and moral laws are, adding weight to the concept of tabula rasa.
This archetype is basically that if a human is left to grow exposed to the natural world without any human contact, not only will they prove to be a functional human being, but will be morally superior to those that have been raised among other humans who presumably have been taught right from wrong. They're probably also seen as being wiser and better in other ways to.
They used the friend's infant son. (he might have been about 5 I can't remember)
As you can imagine, 10-13 years of the not only failed to produce the desired result, but permanently screwed the child's ability to function within the society of the time. Making this another reason to hate Wordsworth if his poetry wasn't already enough.
Within the topic of the thread, this can be seen as an example that humans need to be taught what ideas, emotions, and moral laws are, adding weight to the concept of tabula rasa.
neutral, so I picked other, And I lean to the nurture not nature side of the debate just from what I witnessed throughout my life so far.
I disagree on this, with evidence.Dexiro said:
If you take a child with learning difficulties, they are far more dependent on feedback and are far less empathic, but also less likely to throw tantrums based around something. Most of their tantrums come from internal difficulties.
I honestly don't believe I've met an "evil" child with severe learning difficulties, it's something that seems to be born of a sense of entitlement. In fact, the more the child believes they are entitled to something, the more evil they become.
Whether this is put there through nature/nurture, I couldn't say. But if an autistic child has a tantrum, it's because he's overwhelmed, never - in my experience - because he's faking it to get something.
Equally, we're all hard-wired to need social comfort, so our necessary "good" actions are simple resource gathering; so we're not "good" either.
We start off blank - the more "entitlement" we have, the "eviller" we become - as we want to exert our choice. The more "lack of control" we have, the "gooder" we become - because we require altruistic donations, so we copy them.
And you can have simultaneous "entitlement" and "lack of control", which creates your sociopaths.
Human beings are born with no concept of the morality pertaining to the social surroundings they will grow up in so it is impossible to label them either way.
"Well, we are all born with 'Original Sin', so the only evil people are those who were never baptized." [/Religious Banter]
In all honesty, I believe that a child's morality depends solely on the experiences it had with people around him or her. I think very few people are actually born genuinely good or bad. I was an Asshole when I was younger, but now I regret those days with a passion. I try to be as nice and civil as possible.
In all honesty, I believe that a child's morality depends solely on the experiences it had with people around him or her. I think very few people are actually born genuinely good or bad. I was an Asshole when I was younger, but now I regret those days with a passion. I try to be as nice and civil as possible.
First off "Good" and "Evil" are subjective terms. For the most part young humans are, in a way, sociopaths. They have trouble comprehending anything outside of themselves. As humans become older, they develop complex ideas and moralities which can always be cut short by abuse or just being raised to not emphasize with others. Anyways, we're born into our environment and we learn from there, which I guess would be a blank sponge.
Neither, since there is no good or evil. It's completely subjective.
Though babies are born "innocent" at least and their personality traits develop from there
Though babies are born "innocent" at least and their personality traits develop from there
by that logic your saying a murder could kill a defenceless child if he thought it was for the greater goodTalshere said:
now who the hell said anything about ME being good or evil, i know im a disrespective bastard and the people i know have gotten used to it...oktalist said:
but if i had to i would save the girl first and TRY to go back for the man
While children generally tend to be on the annoying side sometimes, it's completely untrue that they need to be taught kindness, generosity and things of that nature. Studies consistently find that even babies start being nice as soon as they are able. What they do have to learn is that being selfish is more likely to get them what they want in the immediate future.
That's not to say that babies are all purity and innocence and we corrupt them with our ickyness or anything, they're perfectly capable of being terrible little shits without being taught how as well, it's just that they have the potential for both right from the beginning.
I honestly wouldn't say that a person is ever a complete blank slate though. Genetics defines a beginning state that is unique to each individual, and by the time a person is born they've had around three months of experience since they developed independent brain functioning.
So in the end I find all of the poll answers fall short of reality by oversimplification. People are complex and never really pure anything, good, evil or blank. Purity itself is a fictional concept as far as I am concerned.
That's not to say that babies are all purity and innocence and we corrupt them with our ickyness or anything, they're perfectly capable of being terrible little shits without being taught how as well, it's just that they have the potential for both right from the beginning.
I honestly wouldn't say that a person is ever a complete blank slate though. Genetics defines a beginning state that is unique to each individual, and by the time a person is born they've had around three months of experience since they developed independent brain functioning.
So in the end I find all of the poll answers fall short of reality by oversimplification. People are complex and never really pure anything, good, evil or blank. Purity itself is a fictional concept as far as I am concerned.
Technically evil. You have primitive and morally objectionable instincts wired into your brain. Everyone does. Except me, obviously.
Thus, as a result, we kill each other over which fairy tale to believe in, who owns the oil and nuclear material because of pieces of paper we have assigned value.
Except me, obviously. I'm homeless.
Thus, as a result, we kill each other over which fairy tale to believe in, who owns the oil and nuclear material because of pieces of paper we have assigned value.
Except me, obviously. I'm homeless.
I'd say you're born leaning to one side or the other (although evil is such a ridiculous word to use), since personality traits are passed on through family members.
Having said that, much of it is to do with your environment. If you tell a baby of race X that he is better than race Y from the day he's born, they're more than likely going to believe it unless they're exposed to other opinions.
Having said that, much of it is to do with your environment. If you tell a baby of race X that he is better than race Y from the day he's born, they're more than likely going to believe it unless they're exposed to other opinions.