Poll: Are scholarships designated for African-Americans racist?

[manythings]

it doesn't matter who these scholarships favour, if they favour because of race then its racist. so i'm gonna go and tick the top option k thx bai

Agreed. Racism is anything that discriminates purely based on race, be it positive or negative. Equalitarianism is one thing but Feminism is inherently a sexist point of view.

Do not drag feminism into this discussion (I'm not sure female only scholarships qualify as feminism).

No, my point was that if race is the only criterion used to decide if someone is benefitted or handicapped it is racist just like deciding to give or withhold something from a woman purely because she is a woman is sexist.

Once again I do not think such scholarships qualify as feminism though.

But I do think those women only scholarships are bad though, especially when girls outnumber boys in college (from what I've heard).

I wouldn't doubt it. I was in a class of almost 100 in my first year and I was one of 14 guys.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Nope, not given current laws it's not. It is illegal to discriminate between race, whichever way you do it. You aren't allowed to choose a white person for the job over a black man because of colour

What if you're casting for the title role in Othello?

Kidding aside, I don't think it's as easy as that. Yes, there are restrictions on employers, so you're right that private entities don't have carte blanche to commit any act of racism they want, but that also doesn't mean that discrimination on the basis of race is fully outlawed in every circumstance. For example, if you wanted to be a dick and only allow white people into your private party at your home, a black guy wouldn't have any legal recourse. He couldn't exactly have the police forcibly overrule you.

IANAL, but if minority scholarships were not legal, I suspect they would have been abolished long ago.

 

[J-dog42]

I think that everyone is trying to prove how un-racist they are by being overly supportive to a particular race, which then results in further racism. The only solution is to stop giving beneficial treatment to one race over another. Treat people on a case by case basis. Not all people are one race and not all rich people are another.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Sorry, but your argument is worthless.

Evidently not, else these institutions would not be making decisions which affect such ire from their primary subscriber-ship.

This means that for each scholarship for the poor, there will be more white applications than black applications. This means it is more likely that a white will get the scholarship. This will do little to lift the status of whites as a whole. The same scholarship in the hands of a black would make a bigger dent on that overall poverty percentage, and so will do more good to blacks as a whole...

Why should we care about white or blacks or indians (or whatever) as a whole? Why can't we just care about PEOPLE?

In an ideal world, that would be the case.

The fact of the matter is, however, that having the luck to be born black puts you at a significant social disadvantage compared to other groups.
The reason we think in groups is because, well, we think in groups. The 'us and them' mentality forms the core of our democracies, international relations, advertisement, and social aspirations. Whether you or I like it or not, society is still plural, not homogeneous. As pluralist problem must be addressed with a pluralist solution, or else a remedy will not be forthcoming.

Why is having a poor black worse than having a poor white? Poverty, in and of itself, is bad. Throwing in a racial aspect simply draws attention away from the core problem (poverty) and immediately converts it into a racial problem (whites vs everyone else).

Because the poverty of the black is likely to be the result of existing on the tail-end, especially in the USA, of civil rights abuses that have lasted hundreds of years. Fourty-seven years does not a poverty trap disarm. The misfortune of whites at a similar level of poverty is more likely due to vicissitudes of either their own actions, or those of issues too wide to solve without affecting the entirety of society.

 

[loc978]

At their inception, these scholarships were a force for positive change. Now they still reach the economically disadvantaged kids they were originally meant to... but they're also a source of division along racial lines. As to the question "Are they racist?" ...well:

.

Definition of RACISM [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist?show=0&t=1291420649]
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race -nope, they're not that...

2: racial prejudice or discrimination -technically, yes. This is discrimination

.

Now, before we head off into knee-jerk land, how about we actually define discrimination in this context.

Definition of DISCRIMINATION [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination]
1a : the act of discriminating -rather vague, but yes. Technically, someone at the grocery store choosing between two different cuts of meat is discriminating as well, though.
b : the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently -nope

2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing -not such a fine distinction... actually quite easy, so no.

3a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually -yes. It is most certainly this
b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment -aaaand here's the clincher.

.

To determine whether this is racially motivated prejudice, one must ask...
Is the program not offered to people who are not black because those people aren't poor enough to need these scholarships? Or is this simply a case of policy that hasn't changed along with social climate where poverty is no longer entirely polarized by ethnic background? Is this worthy of finger-pointing, or simply another in a long line of outdated rules which has yet to be addressed, simply because change is difficult?

So should the rules be changed? I say yes. Are they some sort of racially motivated conspiracy to give money to only one group of poverty-stricken kids? I say no.

 

[Yopaz]

It is the assumption that African-Americans are worse in school or at least poor that makes me think something is odd with it. Just because you're African American you don't have to be poor or worse than any Asian or rich spoiled bratty teenager. Still, why change it? I do think scholarships shouldn't be as hard as they are to get. I like the system we've got.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Nope, not given current laws it's not. It is illegal to discriminate between race, whichever way you do it. You aren't allowed to choose a white person for the job over a black man because of colour

What if you're casting for the title role in Othello?

Kidding aside, I don't think it's as easy as that. Yes, there are restrictions on employers, so you're right that private entities don't have carte blanche to commit any act of racism they want, but that also doesn't mean that discrimination on the basis of race is fully outlawed in every circumstance. For example, if you wanted to be a dick and only allow white people into your private party at your home, a black guy wouldn't have any legal recourse. He couldn't exactly have the police forcibly overrule you.

IANAL, but if minority scholarships were not legal, I suspect they would have been abolished long ago.

Ah, you've seen the fatal flaw in my argument then. I would think that they are legal, but, with the way government is with racism and being politically correct, I think it might be a very touchy subject for them to look at abolishing them.

Not allowing them into your house wouldn't be illegal, but the fact that you discriminated against them based on skin colour may be subject to the justice system. But, like you, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the ins and outs of it all.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Actually I am the ultimate majority: the Young, Poor, White Male. We don't run the world(and never will unless we are from rich families), we are just as poor as any other poor minority, and we are held to higher standards than we can be expected to achieve. Oh yeah, and everybody hates us. Asians think we are stupid and lazy, women think us oafish and abusive, blacks think we are racist and unfairly advantaged and gays think we are latently-homophobic and can't dance. Fuck you, WE are an oppressed minority.

So.... wait... did you just rapid fire hit us with 2 racial generalizations, a gender generalization, and a sexual orientation generalization? Asians think poor white people are stupid and lazy? Wow, what insensitive jerks asian people must be. Blacks think you're racist and unfairly advantaged? (funny, you think the exact thing of them that you think they think of you) And gay people think you're all homophobic (doubt that) and that you.... can't dance? (how'd that get in there?).

Do you see the irony here? You're assigning points of view to people on the basis of race, gender, and sexual orientation. You didn't say that people in general commonly think these things of you. For some reason, you singled out a race, gender, or sexual orientation for each one.

That aside...

Ok, but it's not expectations of skin or sexual orientation, but of income level. Not everyone who is white is middle class. The middle class are exactly that, in the middle. The overwhelming majority are poor, THEN you have a much lower number of people in the middle, before you have the tiny fraction of elites. It's classism more than racism, but these color-coded scholarships just play into the belief that because someone is white, they automatically are going to be alright and have mortgages and loans and jobs laid at their feet and so they don't NEED any help. "It'll be alright as long as you're white" seems to be their belief.

I question your figures, but there is a principle here I agree with. A lot of people do seem to think that whiteness gives you a free pass in life. It doesn't. And not many are doing anything about it. So while I don't think poor whites are *oppressed* exactly, I would agree that society neglects them.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

This is going to sound amazingly retarded of me (I really can't stop myself..) I challenge a Caucasian-oriented organization to apply to offer a white scholarship. Not in retaliation, but in example. I really hope there are slightly less detested groups like the Ku Klux Klan, but if they're the only ones with a formal organization, so be it. We can only hope the more intelligent members who are only "White Pride" rather than "White Superiority" get involved and maybe give the Klan some respectable credit.

The difference between the two is a bit unclear to me. Why is race something to be proud of? White pride just sounds like a euphemism for white superiority to me.

Isn't that what the Klan is? Yeah, most the members you HEAR about are a bunch of xenophobic, homophobic, racist pricks, but isn't the group's core really just "I'm white and I am proud?"

Of what exactly? The increased susceptibility to sunburn? The greater variety in our hair colors and types? I, for the life of me, can't think of a single feature of being white that makes me feel pride.... or shame. It just is what it is.

 

[Cryo84R]

Replace "African-American" with "White" and watch the uproar.

 

[EinTheCorgi]

yep anything that favors any race is BS

 

[loc978]

Sensationalism is the death of rational discussion...

 

[internetzealot1]

Yes. By deffinition.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

I acknowledge that it's racist, but I base my approval of it not on the assumption that there are more poor black people, but that poor black people make up a greater proportion of black people in total due to the vicissitudes of the poverty trap.

I'm not sure what that means, to be honest. Vicissitudes is not a word that enters my speech very often, I'll grant, but I'm just not parsing it meaningfully in this sentence. The poverty trap is presumably referring to the inertia of poverty. That is, that poor people tend to stay poor. So the poverty trap has vicissitudes? And they are to blame for black people making up a larger proportion of poor people? Rather I think black people make up a larger proportion of poor people due to historical oppression that put them in the lowest rung of society and subsequent social class inertia (the poverty trap) that kept them there.

There are indeed poor elements in other groups, and they should and do (afaik) get their own scholarships. I don't see a problem with that.

That's a reasonable answer. I mean, it's generally private money that funds these scholarships, so who are we to say how they should spend it?

We now have a scholarship for the poor. This would be competed for by the poor, white and black. This appears reasonable, but then one must consider that there are more poor blacks/blacks than there are poor whites/whites. However, there are physically more poor whites than poor blacks...

This means that for each scholarship for the poor, there will be more white applications than black applications. This means it is more likely that a white will get the scholarship. This will do little to lift the status of whites as a whole. The same scholarship in the hands of a black would make a bigger dent on that overall poverty percentage, and so will do more good to blacks as a whole...

Well, actually, the disproportionate number of poor blacks (compared to their overall proportion of the population) would mean that scholarships for the poor would be disproportionately awarded to them anyway. You've just arbitrarily decided that the gulf should be widened *further*. Out of curiosity, why?

As the scholarship would do more proportional good going to blacks than to whites, I think it's fine to remove the massive competition of whites, and offer it solely to blacks.

And yet you never explained why this is a goal we should pursue. You just sort of posited without explanation that propping up a race of people with scholarships is an important and worthwhile endeavor.

I don't want to prevent people from spending their own money how they see fit, but if I were going to donate to a scholarship fund, you've not given me one compelling reason to make it a minority fund.

 

[Mr Scott]

No, it is called affirmative action, look it up.

 

[Acting like a FOOL]

This is pointless...
for many of you ...who I'm guessing aren't Black, the whole affirmative action is something you view as bad because it is based on race.

However the issue is not really just race.

it is about ethnicity(as in bio-cultural, as in self-identity), it's about communal economics,it's about generational economics, it is not about guilt, it's about visible differences in overall success. Many Blacks have seen that in their positions,perspectives and experiences "their people" are in the corner of Mainstream society,culture and human worth.
that is their perspective.
and as long as they are in that corner, they will fight tooth and nail to raise themselves.

it is research, experience, perspective and bias that shape the conflict around all of this.
and the conflict won't end.
in truth
there's, no point debating...it's all been a fight since the beginning.

let the fighting continue...it's what we humans do.

 

[Sovvolf]

let the fighting continue...it's what we humans do.

Or why not work towards stopping the fighting and lets all just get along as man and woman... None of this black and white business...

 

[Blatherscythe]

Based on race, benifits only apply to people of that race, thus it is racist. I'm really big on equality, so fuck racial scolarships, fuck collective rights, fuck special treatment, fuck the guilt trips and most importantly fuck those double-standards. Hell a politition said that when Calgary voted for a Muslim mayor they were making a mistake, he had to apologize, from what I read race had nothing to do with it, besides the other parties think that anyone going in office that isn't one of them is a mistake on the voters part. If I was that man I would have told them to fuck off, I won't kiss your ass because you decide to interpet my words as racist and portray me as a bigot that "needs" to apologize. So fuck all that shit and I hope that someday we will all be considered equal and all this racism bullshit can fuck off.