Poll: Are Simulators considered to be games?

[falcon1985]

I'm talking about games like Microsoft Flight Simulator and Grand Tourismo. These two games represent their respective fields as realistically as possible. I play both and consider them to be games, but I have also found this view is not shared by everyone.

I remeber in one discussion on the escapist about the most realistic games, I got wrist slapped for offering FSX as my choice, followed by the thread starter adding to his OP "No Flight Simulators". This led me to thing gamers don't consider simulators to be games.

So my fellow escapists, am i wrong?

 

[Sneaklemming]

They are games, but they are simply niche.

The sims is definitely a game.

Eve Online I would also consider a sim, and a game. (A socio-economic/political sim)

 

[Talshere]

Grand Turismo probably despite hating it.

Flight sim. No.

Its like crazy taxi with all the fun bits removed.

 

[ModReap]

If it has a goal for you to reach, it is a game. If not then it is not.

 

[srm79]

FSX not a game? OK, so it has no zombie nazis or leveling system, but its a piece of entertainment software that you play with, therefore it's a game. Simple eh?

 

[Jamash]

Gran Turismo isn't a simulator.

Polyphony Digital may have dubbed it The Real Driving Simulator, but it most certainly isn't a simulator.

It's a fun, very detailed driving game, but it isn't realistic, not when you can win races by abandoning handling, tripling the power of your car and just grinding it around every corner of the track, or breaking for corners by slamming into your opponent at 180mph.

The very minimum requirement for a realistic driving simulator is to have some kind of damage model and consequences for crashing.

Gran Turismo has always been a good looking, detailed & fun game, but even when the original was released there were more realistic driving games, and with each iteration of Gran Turismo there has always been a more realistic, more simulator like but less popular driving game available, like Codemaster's TOCA games for example.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Simulators are most certainly games. Even training sims could be seen as games. They're very serious educational games, sure. But still games. It stops being a game when it's real, and simulators aren't real by definition.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

If it has a goal for you to reach, it is a game. If not then it is not.

So stuff like, I dunno, The Sims or Mount and Blade aren't games?

 

[Doug]

I honestly do not know. I suppose it depends on the intent of the simulator. If it is designed towards training, its not a game; if its designed towards entertainment, it is.

 

[ModReap]

If it has a goal for you to reach, it is a game. If not then it is not.

So stuff like, I dunno, The Sims or Mount and Blade aren't games?

Providing that there is no in game achievement for you to, well, achieve, then yes, in my opinion, they are not games, but toys.

 

[JRCB]

Do you play it? If so, it is a game. Simple, from my point of view.

 

[gigastrike]

Simulators are srs buisness! I suppose you can mess around in them and play for fun, but many simulators are used in industry for no risk training.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

well, i've never been interested in those games, but i

If it has a goal for you to reach, it is a game. If not then it is not.

So stuff like, I dunno, The Sims or Mount and Blade aren't games?

Providing that there is no in game achievement for you to, well, achieve, then yes, in my opinion, they are not games, but toys.

in mount & blade you can become mercenary, lord, or even ruler of the whole "game" map...

 

[SimuLord]

If it has a goal for you to reach, it is a game. If not then it is not.

So stuff like, I dunno, The Sims or Mount and Blade aren't games?

Providing that there is no in game achievement for you to, well, achieve, then yes, in my opinion, they are not games, but toys.

So riddle me this. If a game like The Sims or Mount&Blade supplies very little in the way of goals of its own, but provides ample opportunity for the player to decide for himself what the goal is and provides means by which the player can measure progress toward that goal (Will Wright's analogy was to the difference between a tennis ball and the game of tennis), do we call The Sims or Mount&Blade or SimCity or other games in the "software toy" genre games or do we call what the player does with them the actual game?

 

[tsb247]

I have always considered simulators and games to be interchangeable. However, there are some simulators that are aimed more at serious teaching than fun.

FSX is actually kind of a joke when one talks about flight simulators as Microsoft seems to dumb it down more and more with each release. X-Plane (currently on version 9) is the most realistic flight simulator I own, and it is liscenced for use in training airline pilots due to the manner in which it models air (using fluid mechanics).

I suppose in the end it is up the the user what they consider to be a game or not. I consider FSX, X-Plane 9, and Falcon 4.0: Allied Force, to be games. However, I know there are those out there who do not.

 

[Plurralbles]

they're definitely games.

to argue against it is foolish.

And yes Heavy Rain is a game, just one with all the gameplay stripped away.

(and yes I caught that this thread might be one used to illustrate a lot of peoples' hypocrisy)

oh and people, you play games with toys. geeze.

 

[Bobbovski]

Yes, they're games. Why are we even discussing this? Stop wasting my time. Get back to work!