Poll: Are we becoming desensitized?

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RagnorakTres

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I'm going to come right out and say it: I hate Elfen Lied.

This has very little bearing on my actual discussion question, so bear with me here.

Elfen Lied is latin for "Elfen Lay" or "Elfen Song." Sounds pretty innocuous, right? Well, it isn't. At all. In the first thirty seconds of the first episode, at least three people died in ridiculously graphic fashions. I mean heads and limbs ripped off graphic. This continued for nearly 5 minutes. All told, at least 2 dozen graphic deaths must have been shown or hinted at in the first five minutes of this anime. All of this death-dealing was done by a nude young woman in her late teens or early twenties via telekinesis or some such. The blood and nudity didn't bother me so much as my reaction, or rather, lack thereof. I barely even blinked. Thinking back on this, I have become increasingly convinced that this was not a healthy reaction for me. I should have at least stopped watching the show earlier than I did (I watched a good 10 or 15 minutes of a 30 minute show). I recently read an article linked to this site in a different thread that said that GOW 3 will have an innovative physics mechanic called the Zipper that will allow realistic portrayal of organ loss from your enemies. I don't object to this because the brutality in that series is one of it's major selling points. But I do wonder if perhaps people are becoming desensitized to violence and disturbing images in general. I want to know your opinion. Are people, in your experience, becoming less likely to react to offensive material? And if so, is this a good or bad thing?

I myself am entirely divided on this issue. Not the first part, I think we can safely say that it's true that people are becoming desensitized to a certain extent, but I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, or if those terms should even be applied. On the one hand, censorship is wrong and if I let other people decide what is appropriate for me to see, then that is what is going on. But as we become desensitized, crime goes up, violent and sexual crime in particular, because people see it so much that they don't feel that it really matters if they do it too. So I'm torn. Is it better to let everyone see whatever and deal with the consequences when they come up, or is it better to nip this in the bud? I truly don't know.
 

Kiutu

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Not really. Virtual/fake stuff maybe. I enjoy brutality in games sometimes in a sadistic manner, but I knew I still knew the difference between real and fake when my friend and his friends (over internet, they were at his house) found soem video of an actual guy being beaten and brutally murdered. I was appalled and said they should not watch that as it is messed up, and disrespectful (would YOU want to have tons of strangers watch you be brutally mudered for THEIR amusement!?)

It bothered the crap out of me. Him and his friends ended up regretting their decision though. A grim "I told you so" I guess.
 

dalek sec

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I'm kind of on the fence about this subject, sometimes I just love it and can't get enough but for other movies, games or animes with this kind of subject they just come across as so stupid to me I can't even watch them.
 

Abedeus

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Manga (and anime), cartoons and video games have no effect on me. I mean, except for the OOGA BOOGA from FEAR and atmosphere so tense you can cut it with a spoon (Thief 2).

But I can't stand seeing a needle piercing human's (or anything's) skin, even mine (that's why I don't want to become a doctor or a vet). I also have a CHBLARPF! reaction to real-life violent images. Like when a PETA shows some brutally slaughtered animals or how one time I saw an "after road accident" photoes. I stopped watching after 3 minutes, when I saw someone's brain on the chair.
 

Captain_Caveman

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People are more desensitized in general yes. & it's not a good thing.

However, it's not nearly as bad as youre making it out to be. If you had seen a REAL person get their arms & legs ripped apart; I'm willing to bet you would have turned it off immediately in disgust. At least i hope you would have. If you wouldnt, then yes you have a serious problem.
 

Trace2010

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Captain_Caveman said:
People are more desensitized in general yes. & it's not a good thing.

However, it's not nearly as bad as youre making it out to be. If you had seen a REAL person get their arms & legs ripped apart; I'm willing to bet you would have turned it off immediately in disgust. At least i hope you would have. If you wouldnt, then yes you have a serious problem.
This calls to mind the article about HOSTEL: people wanted their money back because there apparently wasn't enough torture.
 

RagnorakTres

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Trace2010 said:
Captain_Caveman said:
People are more desensitized in general yes. & it's not a good thing.

However, it's not nearly as bad as youre making it out to be. If you had seen a REAL person get their arms & legs ripped apart; I'm willing to bet you would have turned it off immediately in disgust. At least i hope you would have. If you wouldnt, then yes you have a serious problem.
This calls to mind the article about HOSTEL: people wanted their money back because there apparently wasn't enough torture.
That...is disgusting and moves me even more towards the "Let's keep this s**t out of peoples' hands" mentality. Which makes me feel like a fascist bastard and a horrible person, but at the same time, that's just horrible.
 

Trace2010

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RagnorakTres said:
Trace2010 said:
Captain_Caveman said:
People are more desensitized in general yes. & it's not a good thing.

However, it's not nearly as bad as youre making it out to be. If you had seen a REAL person get their arms & legs ripped apart; I'm willing to bet you would have turned it off immediately in disgust. At least i hope you would have. If you wouldnt, then yes you have a serious problem.
All I know is that the law of diminishing returns applies to everything.
This calls to mind the article about HOSTEL: people wanted their money back because there apparently wasn't enough torture.
That...is disgusting and moves me even more towards the "Let's keep this s**t out of peoples' hands" mentality. Which makes me feel like a fascist bastard and a horrible person, but at the same time, that's just horrible.
 

Trace2010

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Trace2010 said:
RagnorakTres said:
Trace2010 said:
Captain_Caveman said:
People are more desensitized in general yes. & it's not a good thing.

However, it's not nearly as bad as youre making it out to be. If you had seen a REAL person get their arms & legs ripped apart; I'm willing to bet you would have turned it off immediately in disgust. At least i hope you would have. If you wouldnt, then yes you have a serious problem.
All I know is that the law of diminishing returns applies to everything.
This calls to mind the article about HOSTEL: people wanted their money back because there apparently wasn't enough torture.
That...is disgusting and moves me even more towards the "Let's keep this s**t out of peoples' hands" mentality. Which makes me feel like a fascist bastard and a horrible person, but at the same time, that's just horrible.
All I know is that the Law of Diminishing Returns applies to everything.

Sorry for the double post.
 

Imat

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Feb 21, 2009
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RagnorakTres said:
But as we become desensitized, crime goes up, violent and sexual crime in particular, because people see it so much that they don't feel that it really matters if they do it too.
lizards said:
way to breed a soldier from youth:

lots a of video games and paintball
Fail. No causation has ever been proven. Correlation =/= Causation, so stop using correlation as absolute proof of causation. Increases in crime could be caused by any number of things, most notably INCREASE IN POPULATION. Video games and paintball do not imply future soldier, not even close. You're narrowing down billions of factors to a few seemingly obvious ones. I say again, fail.
 

SquirrelPants

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Imat said:
lizards said:
way to breed a soldier from youth:

lots a of video games and paintball
Fail. No causation has ever been proven. Correlation =/= Causation, so stop using correlation as absolute proof of causation. video games and paintball do not imply future soldier, not even close. You're narrowing down billions of factors to two seemingly obvious ones. I say again, fail.
Yeah, but parents don't seem to get that...>.>

Anyway, yeah, digital violence doesn't affect me much any more, unless it's REALLY creepy and weird. I've seen enough blood and guts that I don't mind it. In real life, on the other hand, I can't stand to watch surgeries, I can't stand(large amounts of) blood, the list goes on.
 

Valiance

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RagnorakTres said:
I'm going to come right out and say it: I hate Elfen Lied.

This has very little bearing on my actual discussion question, so bear with me here.

Elfen Lied is latin for "Elfen Lay" or "Elfen Song." Sounds pretty innocuous, right? Well, it isn't. At all. In the first thirty seconds of the first episode, at least three people died in ridiculously graphic fashions. I mean heads and limbs ripped off graphic. This continued for nearly 5 minutes. All told, at least 2 dozen graphic deaths must have been shown or hinted at in the first five minutes of this anime. All of this death-dealing was done by a nude young woman in her late teens or early twenties via telekinesis or some such. The blood and nudity didn't bother me so much as my reaction, or rather, lack thereof. I barely even blinked. Thinking back on this, I have become increasingly convinced that this was not a healthy reaction for me. I should have at least stopped watching the show earlier than I did (I watched a good 10 or 15 minutes of a 30 minute show). I recently read an article linked to this site in a different thread that said that GOW 3 will have an innovative physics mechanic called the Zipper that will allow realistic portrayal of organ loss from your enemies. I don't object to this because the brutality in that series is one of it's major selling points. But I do wonder if perhaps people are becoming desensitized to violence and disturbing images in general. I want to know your opinion. Are people, in your experience, becoming less likely to react to offensive material? And if so, is this a good or bad thing?

I myself am entirely divided on this issue. Not the first part, I think we can safely say that it's true that people are becoming desensitized to a certain extent, but I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, or if those terms should even be applied. On the one hand, censorship is wrong and if I let other people decide what is appropriate for me to see, then that is what is going on. But as we become desensitized, crime goes up, violent and sexual crime in particular, because people see it so much that they don't feel that it really matters if they do it too. So I'm torn. Is it better to let everyone see whatever and deal with the consequences when they come up, or is it better to nip this in the bud? I truly don't know.
Games have M ratings...
Don't give the six-year-old kid a game where you can rip off a troll's arm and beat him to death with it.

Not if you don't want him to have it, that is.

The games should be made. Don't play them if you don't want to. Society will. Society will desensitize. Some of us have been playing FPS games since we were 5. Does it make use any worse than someone else? Is not being emotional at the sight of something like that being worse than anyone else? I don't think so. I think it's a personal taste. Some people -like- that sort of thing.

You were watching an anime. Someone not only had to think that situation up, but someone else had to draw it, and someone had to animate it, and someone else had to do work on the sound and vocals of the screams during the scene...They must be desensitized. I think it's a good thing, honestly. I'm serious. What would a surgeon do if he was disgusted by the human internal organs? I think being desensitized to violence wouldn't make it "okay" but would instead make people realize "Hey, you know, I can do something about that and stop it." I think it would make people end up being less shocked and confused in a violent situation. And maybe, you know, actually feel that they're able to help, and remain calm instead of panicking, since nothing good comes from that anyway.

PS: You should not be concerned with your reaction. Fear nothing. It'll come in handy. Why would you want to be shocked and horrified when your dad's arm is sliced off while you're being attacked? Why would you want to be paralyzed with fear, stuck in a corner, watching your family get slaughtered? Instead you can say "well, fuck, that sucks," and get on with grabbing your handy-dandy shotgun and killing the invader, or at least putting up a fight like "REEL MEN" should.

(PROTIP: Ignore that paragraph)
 

Imat

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Crazzee said:
Imat said:
lizards said:
way to breed a soldier from youth:

lots a of video games and paintball
Fail. No causation has ever been proven. Correlation =/= Causation, so stop using correlation as absolute proof of causation. video games and paintball do not imply future soldier, not even close. You're narrowing down billions of factors to two seemingly obvious ones. I say again, fail.
Yeah, but parents don't seem to get that...>.>

Anyway, yeah, digital violence doesn't affect me much any more, unless it's REALLY creepy and weird. I've seen enough blood and guts that I don't mind it. In real life, on the other hand, I can't stand to watch surgeries, I can't stand(large amounts of) blood, the list goes on.
Yeah, but they aren't the future of the world. Not to sound rude, but we'll get this kind of stuff when we have families of our own...You know, when other things will just completely confuse us? If it ain't one thing it's another.
 

RagnorakTres

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Imat said:
RagnorakTres said:
But as we become desensitized, crime goes up, violent and sexual crime in particular, because people see it so much that they don't feel that it really matters if they do it too.
Fail. No causation has ever been proven. Correlation =/= Causation, so stop using correlation as absolute proof of causation. Increases in crime could be caused by any number of things, most notably INCREASE IN POPULATION.
Yes, but an increase in population does NOT explain why a higher percentage of crimes committed are violent and/or sexually based. I'm not saying that it is the fault of any one thing, but rather a combination of things, most notably a decrease in common sense, an almost universal feeling of entitlement, and bad parenting. However, somewhere in that list of 70 billion or so faults of society that lead to crime, desensitization exists. You cannot convince me that our desensitization to violence a)doesn't exist or b)isn't a factor in crime.
 

reinersailer

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I am afraid, so it is, with technical helps, we don't need (calculators, cars, motorcycles and so on) we were cut from our central brain more and more, because we don't train our senses and bodies, knowing, this what we live on, is a living being and we are parts of it.
I call this, i live in "museum of our mistakes" and i am working to find a way out of this.
If you understand the german language, have a look at http://www.shortview.de/group/threads/detail/4438/808279
and the following links, so you find a way to my website, too. There are more informations. It's a businesswebsite, but i am a handcraftsman working most time alone, so i don't need the web for sales promotion, the only reason, why i spread my informations in this way, is, to authenticate myself, that everyone knows, that i am not kidding.
 

Lightforge

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Video games can very clearly desensitize us to violence/sex/excitement/fear/etc. The only causation of aggressive behavior from video games has been shown in children, though such experiments are now practically illegal, as they cause children to become more physically and/or verbally aggressive.... That said, aggressive thoughts have been evidenced in even adults. Considering how stupidly impossible conducting research in a way that even CAN find evidence for aggression is, it's remarkable that anything has been found at all.

Games should not be censored (unless clearly harmful, which is possible). They should be monitored like the FDA does food. Nutrition facts. Diablo =/= GTA:4. Both are RPGs rated M by the ESRB. That's like saying a cheeseburger is the same as a Baconator. Neither one is Total cereal, but one will clog your arteries far more efficiently.

Violence is less of a concern than other things, except that it takes away an innocence which isn't missed in this culture anyways. Experience makes you. Everything you know and think is dependent on your experience interacting with your body. If you fill your mind with crap, you will be crap. That's the problem with letting people have too much freedom before they even have a decent identity (~13-22-45 years old) to use it well. Kids are protected because they are too open minded, which is to say, defenseless against negative experience and stupidity.

Here's the issue. Free speech is dangerous. It can kill people and get others to kill people. It does. If you were skillful enough, you could probably find a half-dozen people in your community and kill them by just saying the right things to them. Generally, infringing on free speech is more dangerous, but there are lines that need to remain.

Back to the specific issue. I wish I never saw the intro to Elfen Lied. It has removed a tiny way of enjoying the world which I can never get back. The worst part is that I can't even miss it. At least it wasn't as bad as Rocky Horror. I know many people love it, but it hurt my face. Showing it to others is probably unethical.

My conclusion: Desensitization is good if you are trying to survive the world, assuming of course that you don't go too far. Desensitization is bad if you are trying to enjoy the world.
 

mangus

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I found a girl being rendered limbless (and living) to be far more shocking than a bunch of nameless guards being slaughtered. (in Elfen Leid)