Reasonable complaints in my opinion.
I'm not a Star Wars fan, but I can relate to how annoyed die hard fans must be when he's constantly producing/adding shit to the franchise they love.
No. He knew perfectly well what he was doing when he made the Prequels, and he walked away from it with billions in his pocket (at our expense, no less), so I doubt he really gives a damn at this point.
If you go public with a work, expect criticism.
(Rational criticism; not insane things like love-stalking or death threats, depending on the opinion)
While I fell that episodes 1 & 2 weren't too great(3 was decent in my opinion) I do think that we are pretty tough on the poor dude. While some people feel he raped their childhood, I think are entertaining for what they are (prequel and re-releases alike). Though the scripts could have been handled much better in the prequels.
The hate he's getting is something equivalent to what terrorists feel. He gets treated like he's physically assaulted his fans rather than just doing some poor work. He hasn't done anything evil to us. He has given us mediocrity, but not forced us to watch it. I don't feel bad for him, but he doesn't deserve all of what he's getting.
(don't know if someone else said this since I've only skimmed the replies)
Lucas years ago (sometime around when the original Star Wars films were released), he went to Congress I believe, and tried to make it so that it would be illegal to alter and edit films once the final product was released,saying that in the not too distant future, people would be able to add in people/things that weren't in the original, alter people's appearances, make their lips move and add in things they didn't say, stuff like that. And what do you know, Lucas did that himself twenty or so years later.
More on topic, he deserves all the hate and then some. Besides being a hypocrite (see above), and whenever he's in charge of writing and whatnot (see the Star Wars prequels, and Crystal Skull), the films turn out largely bad. Let's not forget the fact that he whores the shit out of Star Wars, as well as just screws with the story so much (Apprentices can't have their own padawans, but Anakin gets his own in the Clone Wars CGI series, which takes place in-between a scene in the Clone Wars animated series, which it itself takes place in-between the second and third film. There's a three year gap between SW2 & 3, and the scene in the animated series that happens after the events of the CGI series takes place not too long before the start of SW3, and AGGGGHHHHH!)
you should have seen my face when i saw the dvd versions for the first time, when the holographic emperor in VI appeared and they changed not only the actor, but they changed the dialogue as well man, that was totally unnecessary. Oh and when fucking hayden christianson appeared at the end i lost all respect for lucas. I MEAN THE ORIGINAL MIDDLE AGED ANIKIN MADE SENSE WHY WOULD HE BE IN HIS FUKING TWENTIES????
Its what everyone thinks that matters no longer. The deal has been made, no rewind. What you thought, or think, shouldn't be changed because now he's acting on the opinions. Remember, everyone lashing out to his works are the reason.
As a Star wars fan, I've been saying the same thing for years. Who'd have though a split second alteration with Greedo would cause such outrage from butthurt fanboys that somehow felt that made the entire 2 and a half hour movie worthless garbage? I'd have called it quits then if I were him for the same reason: any fanbase that particular about that minor an alteration is not worth the effort to try and please. Granted not all changes were smart (or good) but there seems to be a focus on ones that piss people off. I don't hear anyone complaining that splicing in the deleted scene with Biggs before the trench run, or flashing to other planets at the end of RotJ ruined anything. Now doing it a second time after seeing how well it went over, that was a pretty braindead move.
Now the prequels, those are a harder matter. They're flawed movies to be sure, but a lot of whining stems less from the same fanboy rage. OMG an annoying sidekick character (never seen those before). Oh no, a sixty second bit "demystifying" the force (admmittedly, I read the expanded universe books that aluded to other force schools not as limited as the jedi's so kind of ignored that). This isn't the Anikin I envisioned for 20 years (why prequals seldom go over well). I know Anikin turns bad and see the signs, why is no one in the movie without my knowledge of the future so perceptive? (why tragic prequels almost never go over well) Too much CGI (ooo Avatar looks so shiney). Far fewer complaints about pacing, acting, script, the second movie being an ad for Clone War books, comics, and cartoons.
Either way, they still aren't the worst thing to happen to star wars. I'll gladly take the prequels over reading the Crystal Star again.
slightly harsh, but the criticisms are completely warranted. as if it werent enough for him to make the prequel trilogy so disappointing, he thought it was a good idea to go back to the original trilogy and change a bunch of shit that didnt need changing.
I reserve my contempt for the whiny fanboys who have made sure that we will never again see the majesty of the first series, or be able to share new stories with our children.
Maybe. My theory is that George Lucas has become too self-deluded by his own success. I figure that when he was writing/directing the prequels, I think, he shut out any and all input from outside sources. He likely didn't get anyone to edit the script, didn't get anyone's advice or suggestions while directing and/or editing the films. It had to be all his was all the time. As a result he denied himself a lot of valuable information. As a fairly creative person myself, I know that when creating something there are several things one needs to be aware of: 1) That how you perceive your creation is not necessarily how your audience will perceive it. 2) You are often blind to the flaws of your own creation.
If he had allowed others to add input while making the prequels he might have realized that some of what he was doing was not the best idea and would've had the chance to fix it before the final product went out. Instead what we got is glimpses of brilliance buried under overdone CGI and B-movie-esque dialogue.
And as for the Special Editions, well apparently he's not familiar with the quote "An artist knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
I can't remember who said that.
EDIT:
prowll said:
I reserve my contempt for the whiny fanboys who have made sure that we will never again see the majesty of the first series, or be able to share new stories with our children.
So, with the announcement of his retirement from major productions, seemingly because of the widespread nerdrage his recent efforts have earned him, I do wonder. DOES he deserve it?
Mostly yes. I do feel sorry for him, because he obviously can't see what he's doing wrong, but that doesn't make what he's doing GOOD.
Tom Artingstall said:
I mean, no denying the prequel trilogy was worse than the originals. But apart from a few notable exceptions, how many good prequels can you think of? Or sequels for that matter. He at least managed two of those against all expectations.
Yes, he likes to edit his movies, but that IS his rite. Plenty of us like to draw, or write, or compose music. How would you feel if something you really didn't think was complete, you couldn't change to your satisfaction without massive hatred from your fanbase?
I think that the issue most people have is that he's destroying the originals by creating the re-releases in the way that he is. If he wants to make remastered versions, as you say, it is his right to do so. But he should release it alongside the originals, as a Directors Cut or something, out of courtesy to the fanbase (or even sheer pragmatism after the 1997 re-release fiasco).
I would love to have been able to buy a "Complete Star Wars Collection" which contained the original theatrical releases, the 1997 re-release, the 2004 DVD remaster AND the Blu Ray remaster. He could have chucked on more documentaries about the remastering process, charged an extra £30 and people would still have bought it!
Tom Artingstall said:
The other side of the coin, yes he MADE those movies, but we're the ones who adopted them into the public psyche. Without Us (captialised to refer to Them, They, Us, We, The People, etc), there would be no Star Wars as we know it today. We turned an obscure, ridiculous Sci-Fi concept into a Pop Culture Juggernaut. It's his dream, but it's our childhood. And he keeps monkeying around with our memories.
Exactly. It's all very well making remasters, but he shouldn't be trying to actively stop people from seeing the originals as per the quote:
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won't last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you'll be able to project it on a 20' by 40' screen with perfect quality. I think it's the director's prerogative, not the studio's to go back and reinvent a movie." - Lucas on the Re-releases
Tom Artingstall said:
Okay, both sides of the coin there. Personally, I think we're giving him a bit too rough a time. I mean, fine, the prequels weren't all that good and the constant edits are getting annoying. But the black hatred I see for the man sometimes online ought to be reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theatre. It's just another knee-jerk reaction of the internet (" movie/franchise/reboot sucked!").
Nice Firefly reference
I essentially agree. I don't hate the guy, but I still think he's made some pretty stupid errors of judgement which is causing.... friction. Ah well, I've got a fan edit on the way, taking bits from all of the releases to make MY personal favourite version (needless to say, Han shoots first) so I guess it doesn't affect me that much anyway.
Personally I think we're not hard enough on him, a lot of people let him get away with things they wouldn't/don't tolerate from others because he's George Lucas/it's Star Wars. If he hadn't made the original trilogy and we'd just started with the prequels then, they'd have made vastly less money, been nowhere near as successful, and probably have lost all steam after the second one at best.
As a Star wars fan, I've been saying the same thing for years. Who'd have though a split second alteration with Greedo would cause such outrage from butthurt fanboys that somehow felt that made the entire 2 and a half hour movie worthless garbage? I'd have called it quits then if I were him for the same reason: any fanbase that particular about that minor an alteration is not worth the effort to try and please. Granted not all changes were smart (or good) but there seems to be a focus on ones that piss people off. I don't hear anyone complaining that splicing in the deleted scene with Biggs before the trench run, or flashing to other planets at the end of RotJ ruined anything. Now doing it a second time after seeing how well it went over, that was a pretty braindead move.
Now the prequels, those are a harder matter. They're flawed movies to be sure, but a lot of whining stems less from the same fanboy rage. OMG an annoying sidekick character (never seen those before). Oh no, a sixty second bit "demystifying" the force (admmittedly, I read the expanded universe books that aluded to other force schools not as limited as the jedi's so kind of ignored that). This isn't the Anikin I envisioned for 20 years (why prequals seldom go over well). I know Anikin turns bad and see the signs, why is no one in the movie without my knowledge of the future so perceptive? (why tragic prequels almost never go over well) Too much CGI (ooo Avatar looks so shiney). Far fewer complaints about pacing, acting, script, the second movie being an ad for Clone War books, comics, and cartoons.
Either way, they still aren't the worst thing to happen to star wars. I'll gladly take the prequels over reading the Crystal Star again.
Given he hasn't really MADE anything of any quality since making Greedo shoot first, I'd argue he SHOULD have quit then and the world (or at least the little corner of the cinematic one) would be a better place for it frankly.
He only directed the first movie, so all the edits he made to five and six are really more like an artist going into a gallery and changing the paintings of people he worked with 20 years ago. I really could care less if he wants to add a cgi shockwave around the deathstar, or a few robots for laughs in Mos Eisley. Most of the edits he made were superficial, but there are several he made that literally began to undermine the dramatic tension within the story, and that is unforgivable.
For instance:
in The Empire Strikes Back when Vader corners Luke on the gantry, Lucas added a scream as Luke begins to fall, this undermines the entire fucking movie and I'll tell you why. The entire movie up to this point we're watching Luke, we're watching him be afraid, we're watching him be impatient, we're watching him be the same whiny little ***** that he was back on Tatooine. Then for 10 minutes before this scene we see him calm and collected, facing his fear, concentrating against his mortal foe. Only to learn that it's his father. In this moment, it would be easy for Luke to accept his father's invitation, tempted onto an easier path, but no, here is when Luke finally shows his resolve. The entire movie has been dramatically building to this point, the climax of this movie is not Luke finding out that Vader is his father, it's Luke rejecting his father, and calmly, quietly and bravely committing suicide to prevent himself from becoming a tool of evil as his father did, he would rather die than join the dark side, and it's the silence as he's falling that brilliantly communicates his resolve to that cause.
When you add the scream, Luke turns back into the whiny farmboy he was at the beginning of the movie, unable to commit to anything on a serious mental level, not even his own selfless suicide.
I'm convinced after seeing the prequels that Lucas either never had any sense of drama, or that it's been totally eclipsed for his love of CGI and money. Because the edits and scripts that he's botched since the nineties show the dramatic depth of a tea saucer.
George Lucas doesn't have a lot of qualities as a filmmaker. He's not a good writer, and he's not a good director. However, the man is a master at crafting worlds. The striking locations, the memorable aliens, the unique technology. The universe of Star Wars is something that couldn't have been conceived by anyone else, other than George Lucas.
Do I think that he deserves the criticism that he's getting? Yes.
The Star Wars prequels were horrible movies, for a variety of reasons, and he's made a number of terrible edits to the original trilogy, some of which undermined key aspects of the movies.
The fans have every right to criticize these things, and Lucas should've listened to them right after he was done with The Phantom Menace. But why listen to the fans, when your next film is guaranteed to sell better than sliced bread anyway?
Lucas ignored the fans, and for that, and the uninspired changes he made to the original trilogy, he deserves every bit of criticism that he gets.
My only question is: What does he owe us? He got his money by making a movie we enjoyed we gave him money to enjoy it. If you don't like is new changes then don't buy his new movies. Find an old copy of the original. As far as I am concerned George Lucas does not owe me anything. He does not need to keep releasing his original movies when a new format comes out. At the same time though I don't need to watch or buy his new movies and can just watch the old ones.
In terms of my opinion though his new movies and changes sort of take away from the original movie.
He only directed the first movie, so all the edits he made to five and six are really more like an artist going into a gallery and changing the paintings of people he worked with 20 years ago. I really could care less if he wants to add a cgi shockwave around the deathstar, or a few robots for laughs in Mos Eisley. Most of the edits he made were superficial, but there are several he made that literally began to undermine the dramatic tension within the story, and that is unforgivable.
For instance:
in The Empire Strikes Back when Vader corners Luke on the gantry, Lucas added a scream as Luke begins to fall, this undermines the entire fucking movie and I'll tell you why. The entire movie up to this point we're watching Luke, we're watching him be afraid, we're watching him be impatient, we're watching him be the same whiny little ***** that he was back on Tatooine. Then for 10 minutes before this scene we see him calm and collected, facing his fear, concentrating against his mortal foe. Only to learn that it's his father. In this moment, it would be easy for Luke to accept his father's invitation, tempted onto an easier path, but no, here is when Luke finally shows his resolve. The entire movie has been dramatically building to this point, the climax of this movie is not Luke finding out that Vader is his father, it's Luke rejecting his father, and calmly, quietly and bravely committing suicide to prevent himself from becoming a tool of evil as his father did, he would rather die than join the dark side, and it's the silence as he's falling that brilliantly communicates his resolve to that cause.
When you add the scream, Luke turns back into the whiny farmboy he was at the beginning of the movie, unable to commit to anything on a serious mental level, not even his own selfless suicide.
I'm convinced after seeing the prequels that Lucas either never had any sense of drama, or that it's been totally eclipsed for his love of CGI and money. Because the edits and scripts that he's botched since the nineties show the dramatic depth of a tea saucer.
I agree with you completely, including your example. That's one of my pet peeves too. The Han Solo bar shooting change also really trashes his character. (originally he shot first, in the edit he shot second) Han was SUPPOSED to be the bad guy with the good heart. He needed a bit of darkness.
And another big one... the "Noooooooooooooooo" added to Vader in RotJ. That was well acted and directed originally. You can see what's going through Vader's head as he watched his son dying and as he fought with himself. His actions were that of a dedicated father... and a calm, rational, JEDI. Screaming no is the opposite you would expect to hear and it destroys the moment.
And it goes on...
As for the prequels, he crapped on his original continuity, bad move.
Nope, people are too easy on him, not too hard. And he's acting like a whiny selfish jerk who can't see that going back and adding a bigger smile to the Mona Lisa would not be a good thing.
As for the Noooooooooo scene, the only way I think Lucas could have fouled it up more is if he super imposed a clown nose over Vader's mask and googly eyes over the emperor.
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