Poll: Arming the UK Police

[Sovvolf]

The point is to kill them before the bomb goes off. A police officer with a handgun can only shoot a suspect up to 100 meters away reliably. Those officers with rifles can shoot them up to 300 meters away.

2 things here.

1. Most of these attacks happen out of the blue, unless something is leaked out to the police times before... In which, an ARU or the "Real police" as you call them would already be dispatched before hand. So, unless you've caught this guy with a bomb on him, which is highly situational and improbable... A guns not really going to improve matters.

2. I'm pretty sure that NYPD doesn't have officers actively patrolling the streets with rifles outside of ceremonial circumstances or unless informed on a situation like this currently happening.

Please understand that I'm not arguing with American police officers carrying guns, I think over on your side of the pond, its a reasonable thing to do. I just don't think the whole watching out for terrorist argument holds much ground.

I do urge you to understand that Briton is not America and having every officer carrying a firearm is really unnecessary and as said in my post on page 14... We have enough idiot cops out there who I wouldn't trust with a baton, never mind giving them firearms. Leave it to the pro's who are trained specifically to handle this kind of situation. If the worse comes to it, we always have these guys to back it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p4DmuGyehc

 

[Captain Pancake]

option 2 seems impractical. option 1 means they're always prepared, but there should be strict regulations and repercussions for use of extreme force in anything other than the direst circumstances (like criminal charges and expulsion from the police force).

 

[Baneat]

I pick option A - Arm the police officers, legalise firearms

I'd like gun legalisation too, but I don't see that happening any time soon in the UK. Still, gun crime has been steadily tracking upwards at 34% per year since guns were completely abolished a few decades back in the UK. Perhaps soon a judge or a politician will be executed by a gunman and then they'll get a taste of what it's like to live in Peckham or Catford.

I can't condone empowering the state without empowering the people.

Then whats the point in guns? Instead of a mad guy swinging a machete at police it will be him shooting at them. Is that better?

I've heard and seen what america with that where everyone and they're mum has a gun and wouldnt like that here.

IMO give police guns with rubber bullets.

Insanity is not something to legislate against.

The idea of arming the day to day UK police officer is one so staggeringly stupid that it almost completely defies belief.

Outside a couple of particularly bad areas, gun crime is limited in the UK.

Wiki listed figures from 2000

Percentage of homicides carried out with a firearm:
UK 8% | US 46%

Intentional homicides per 100,000 inhabitants:
UK 1.7 | US 5.5

Therfore...

Intentional homicides by firearm per 100,000 inhabitants:
UK 0.14 | US 2.5

So for every gun murder in the UK there are 18 in the US per head of population.

==

There is no real culture of gun use in the UK and there is no massive crime wave of dangerous criminality regardless of what certain (heavily politically biased) newspapers say. Calm down, everything is fine as it is.

Got the knife stats also per capita? Or just general violent crime?

 

[Gladiateher]

none arrived as they were all either busy elsewhere or denied by command

..Erm, perhaps because they weren't needed?

Edit: a gun in that situation would've only resulted in death. if they needed a gun then a tazer would do better.

They could have used the gun to threaten him into putting the weapon down, or blasted his ass with rubber bullets/beanbag rounds. Just cause it's a gun doesn't mean they'd have to kill him.

 

[Paragon Fury]

As a general rule of thumb, the peacekeepers should be far more heavily armed than the potential trouble-makers.

 

[Gladiateher]

I vote having police not having fire arms but with special divisions having them, however i think that these spcial units should respond if called

my main concern is that with the current government there will be alot of protests and some will turn into riots, imagine what would have happened at the student riot in london if the police had fire arms there

In the U.S. officers carry guns and we still have riots without massacres. I have a hard time imagining anything being worse with the guns being there, teargas, batons, and horses can and will clear and crowd guaranteed. I have a friend who was at a street fire and got shot with a beanbag round. Guns don't necessarily mean death.

 

[Shock and Awe]

The British police should never, ever be routinely armed with guns.

The sight of American policemen pulling their guns out at every minor offender makes me sick.

If you are going to pull a gun on someone, it must only be because you are going to shoot them. A police force which needs to bully minor offenders into doing anything in this way is not one I want in my country.

Im sorry but where are you getting your information? Officers here never pull there weapons unless a suspect hays done something to make themselves an active threat to either the officer or a bystander. Every time an officer pulls there sidearm they have to justify it since they are often caught on tape by the camera in every officer's patrol car. Please don't generalize an entire country's police force on precious little information.

 

[crhoades]

I Agree as long as they are properly trained and levelheaded then by all means they should be armed.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Something about this reminds me about how a cop "accidentaly" shot a man in the back of the head (pretty much execution style) in BART last year.
BART is the name of the subway system in San Fransisco.

 

[rossatdi]

Got the knife stats also per capita? Or just general violent crime?

No but I'm sure the glory of the internet can help you out. Its higher than some and lower than others, what it doesn't have is maniacs running around and cutting up police officers despite a few tragic cases.

 

[DefinitelyPsychotic]

I say give them guns! It would make an incident such as that end much quicker! 20 mins? Madonna Mia! That's crazy!

Also, in case it isn't already obvious, I voted for option one!

 

[Jason Danger Keyes]

Canadian police forces carry at least a pistol, I'm sure that the special forces units pack heavier. I can't imagine a police force that is not equipped well enough to handle a lone man with a knife.

 

[commodore96]

Get them some gats

 

[Baneat]

Got the knife stats also per capita? Or just general violent crime?

No but I'm sure the glory of the internet can help you out. Its higher than some and lower than others, what it doesn't have is maniacs running around and cutting up police officers despite a few tragic cases.

Just seems strange that the source you pulled for gun crime wouldn't have other violent crimes?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Well ... as long as police training is exceptional and the criterion to be a police officer is rigorous and the individual psychologically assessed. All for it.

The UK is a pretty dangerous place nowadays, so I have heard. Might just be gossip (or simple, and incorrect nostalgia of a time in the UK where people didn't bother reporting crimes, thus the appearance of being safer).

The telescopic police batons are an excellent close quarters weapon so I hear. Australian police have had firearms for awhile, but I'm not sure if they're outfitted with the collapsible batons ... if they aren't they should be. Versatile, robust, and not so cumbersome as the old nightsticks.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

The point is to kill them before the bomb goes off. A police officer with a handgun can only shoot a suspect up to 100 meters away reliably. Those officers with rifles can shoot them up to 300 meters away.

We must also be vigilant of a Mumbai style attack which Al Qaeda has been planning for New York.

Non-terror example: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34364869/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/cop-kills-man-times-square-shootout/

100 metres is a pretty good distance in a city street, dont you think? I mean sure those rifles might have a few hundred extra yards of effective fire, but what good does that do when you have people running around all over the place?

I've always liked the idea of 'plain clothes' police units with only pistols. They are more likely to actually be useful in a terrorist situation, rather than 'that guy who gets shot first' type of heavy-armed and armoured looking fellow with the rifle.

More likely to blend in with the crowd to fight regular crime as well. Oh ... and they will inspire less dread and angst in the average person on the street. Also more apporoachable by the general public, and good reputations and friendly demeanours win the hearts and minds of people.

Bit hard to feel safe around a guy dressed as a soldier and packing all the same kind of heat. Guy in a honey-coloured trenchcoat, shirt and tie over a stab vest? Little more approachable.

 

[Kuilui]

If the police can have guns then so should citizens. Gun control is such a stupid concept. Your taking guns away from people that want to LEGALLY obtain one. Criminals don't get guns legally their freaking criminals. Either politicans are all idiots or they just like knowing pissed off citizens that will probably crack one day cant fight back as well as they can. Didn't crime in the UK go up like 40% after the gun ban? Makes no sense whatsoever. That's politicans for you though. Logic and common sense are two things you can't have to be a politician for some reason. Glad I live in America.