Poll: Arming the UK Police

[Spygon]

the uk police for are a joke and a number of them act recklessly around the public often causing as much trouble as they start.Arming these guys would end up with a rise in shootings so i will go with number 3.

Only fully trained specialised teams of police should be allowed firearms

 

[erztez]

I would be interested to see the results of this poll if you were to remove the opinions of everyone from the US. Gun control FTW! isn't it logical to assume that having fewer guns, we will have fewer shootings as well?

Would be quite interesting to read How many pro-gun posters in this tread are 13 year olds -.-

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt

"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

That's why.

 

[thylasos]

The status quo is just fine.

There's outlying cases and occasional tragedy, yes, but increasing the prevalence of firearms will just increase those cases.

We don't have a gun-owning culture, unlike the US, where for all the difference in gun-related deaths, there's a way in which it works. People aren't clamouring for it here, apart from a few people who go to gun clubs who want a more powerful or faster-loading weapon for the range.

 

[Burs]

I would be interested to see the results of this poll if you were to remove the opinions of everyone from the US. Gun control FTW! isn't it logical to assume that having fewer guns, we will have fewer shootings as well?

Would be quite interesting to read How many pro-gun posters in this tread are 13 year olds -.-

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt

"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

That's why.

Still this is null and void as we have Firearms officers,
WE DO NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO CARRY

Signed a Hampshire Special Constable

 

[idarkphoenixi]

a gun in that situation would've only resulted in death. if they needed a gun then a tazer would do better.

Gotta agree. In a situation like this, a tazer would have worked just as well, if not better than a firearm.

UK police don't carry guns as standard isuue because generally speaking, guns are not needed. UK crime is fairly small compared to other countries. A tazer should certainly be carried, but only if they recieve proper training on it. I've seen too many law enforcement officials treating tazers like toys, using them on people without a moments hesitation.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

To me, handing out guns to all officers just ups the ante, I don't believe most criminals, even if they had a gun, would shoot a police officer dead to escape arrest, if they could run or hit the guy to get away. If the police were armed, that criminal would know he'd have to shoot the officer dead to escape.

Also, ignoring the media hype, there just aren't masses of guns in every estate in the UK, the reason gun crime gets reported is because it's an event, rather than an everyday occurence.

On top of that, I'm in agreement that there's a minority who like to pile into protests and use their batons to crack a few hippy skulls under the defence of 'quelling troublesome elements'.

I'd rather not arm all of them, knowing that a small minority are a bit too quick to resort to violence, although I'm fully in favour of responsible, trained armed response units for emergencies.

Btw, smart move on the poll, won't stop people going OMG GUNS YES/NO, but it'll slow them down a bit. Tho you are going to get skewed results from people who just really love their favourite number.

 

[YawningAngel]

Given that the last person whose shooting by UK police I can remember by the UK police was an unarmed electrician, I'm going to stick with a firm "fuck no" on this.

 

[EvilPicnic]

I would be interested to see the results of this poll if you were to remove the opinions of everyone from the US. Gun control FTW! isn't it logical to assume that having fewer guns, we will have fewer shootings as well?

Would be quite interesting to read How many pro-gun posters in this tread are 13 year olds -.-

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt

"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

That's why.

I've never understood why people think that argument is persuasive. It's just a clever pun.

In reality, all guns were legal at some point before they got onto the black market and into criminal hands.

When guns are illegal, or difficult to obtain legally, the black market has no source and criminal access to guns is reduced.

When guns are legal and freely obtainable would-be mass-murderers can buy as many guns as they want at the local supermarket.

 

[BringBackBuck]

I always find gun threads fascinating.

The American obsession with guns is so foreign to my way of thinking. Apparently this stems from the role firearms played how America won it's independence, the escalation of arsenals during the Cold War, enshrined in the second amendment, and reflected in popular culture for years, backed by a highly resourced and politically active firearms industry. As a result the opinions from many Americans are very specific to their own culture and cannot really be applied to the UK (or other countries).

Bearing that in mind it is unfair to simply say "you guys are wrong". This always comes up with the argument about concealed carrying, with gun advocates suggesting the best way to reduce gun violence is to add more guns into the mix. This attitude is so...American?..It is unsafe to drive a small car in case I crash into a guy in a big car, so I will buy an even bigger car. American football is dangerous, because the guy that will hit me has helmet and padding so I need more shoulder pads, etc

To an outsider the answer seems so simple: if no-one had a gun there would be less gun problems, if everyone drove a smaller car there would be no need to buy a big one, if no football player had a helmet, then no-one else would need one.

Coming from this culture, where escalation is the answer to just about everything, the argument that not arming your cops means that the criminals don't need to carry guns to commit crime and everyone is better off would seem as strange to you as the idea that having more guns at a university is the best way to reduce the chance of someone being shot is to me.

TL,DR: Cultural bias all over this thread.

 

[88chaz88]

It is unsafe to drive a small car in case I crash into a guy in a big car, so I will buy an even bigger car.

Actually it's more safe in a small car, big cars tend to get trashed far more easily.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I come from Cumbria the area that had the two gunmen on the loose recently. Derrick Bird and Raoul Moat both of which used provately owned hunting weapons to go on a rampage.

The locals here are armed with rifles and shotguns for hunting, the farmers are better armed than the police lol. It's like Texas only with sheep and rain.

I think the British government are worried about escalation but as it is even the 'crime of passion criminals' are capable of aquiring firearms. I don't think a small calibre pistol or somthing for a minority of veteran police would be too much to ask for. Or, just keep it as it is and increase the number of armed response units.

 

[MGlBlaze]

Okay, so option three is just 'keep things as they are now', right?

I'd pick option 1, mostly because I live in Northern Ireland and the police are usually armed here anyway. Of course, I believe firearms training should be strict, and harsh punishments for ANY kind of misconduct.

I'm all for legalising more wide civilian possession of firearms over here too, but that's just me. Okay, you're entitled to own as many shotguns as you want given a few conditions (Smoothbore, 2-round magazine (plus one in the chamber), shotgun licence, all shotguns secured to the satisfaction of the local police department, et cetera) but it's still quite restrictive in what you can choose. With equally strict training and harsh punishment for firearms misconduct as well, of course.

Edit;
Actually, simply supplying them with tasers would have diffused this situation very effectively as well. I'm all for avoiding death where it's possible.

 

[erztez]

I would be interested to see the results of this poll if you were to remove the opinions of everyone from the US. Gun control FTW! isn't it logical to assume that having fewer guns, we will have fewer shootings as well?

Would be quite interesting to read How many pro-gun posters in this tread are 13 year olds -.-

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt

"When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

That's why.

I've never understood why people think that argument is persuasive. It's just a clever pun.

In reality, all guns were legal at some point before they got onto the black market and into criminal hands.

When guns are illegal, or difficult to obtain legally, the black market has no source and criminal access to guns is reduced.

When guns are legal and freely obtainable would-be mass-murderers can buy as many guns as they want at the local supermarket.

That's...wrong.
I can get a gun in any country under 24 hours, UK included. If I wanted to. And I don't.
Might not be an assault rifle, but I'll get my hands on something that shoots lead using sulfur, charcoal, and potassium nitrate. Hell, if need be, I can BUILD one.
Remember, if you outlaw guns in, let's say, Poland, then what exactly is stopping people from buying them in, let's say, Russia?
Also,
"According to the US Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, and Tobacco (BAFT), around 4.37 million firearms are produced in the US every year. According to "Small Arms Survey 2001", it is estimated that at least 347 million small arms were produced worldwide between 1945 and 2000."

If you don't buy 'em, someone else will.

 

[TheEnglishman]

This seems more a case of making more specialist teams ready for these sorts of incidents and re-defining situations in which they should be used.

As for the machete man, surely riot shiled or tasers would have been enough. That all seemed needlessly complex, though brave and warranting a lot of respect.

 

[Vrach]

Cops - guns = lolwut?

They're no better than a neighborhood watch.

^This (worse actually, a neighbourhood watch might have a firearm among them >.> ), I had no idea UK cops didn't carry firearms. That's just ridiculous.

Option one, obviously.

 

[Sparrow]

I kind of agree, but on the other hand I think it's important to note that serious crime is much lower in UK compared to America.

That being said, our forces shouldn't be unprepared for situations like this. I would stress the officers get a hell of a lot of training with firearms before being issued them. That might sound obvious to some people, but I wouldn't want the police in my country walking around with handguns they can't operate properly.

 

[mightybozz]

I dont know If this has already been said but in the UK when using Lethal firearms the law states that ANY shot fired by a Police officer at a target HAS to be a Killing shot.

Also do you think the government doesnt discuss this with their officers, I've been a Special Constable (part-time bobby) for almost two years now, Every time this comes up the Police themselves turn it down, as Im sure others have said It just means that the scum on the streets are just going to arm themselves more.

Also a Weapon Is very intimidating to the public which causes them to dislike/fear/hate us which encourages crime and prevents us from doing our jobs, I have a good rep in my town becuase I help people and thats what policing should be about.

By the Way the majority of the Armed officers in the home office police forces today are armed with MP9's, G36's and glocks ^.^

HAS to be a killing shot? Please cite the law in question for me, as I doubt that this is the case. I agree with the rest of your thoughts.

Anyway, fewer guns = fewer deaths. If people have guns, people are going to die. I'm curious as to why no tazer showed up for the situation in the video, but it isn't a reason why police need guns as standard issue.

 

[erztez]

I kind of agree, but on the other hand I think it's important to note that serious crime is much lower in UK compared to America.

That being said, our forces shouldn't be unprepared for situations like this. I would stress the officers get a hell of a lot of training with firearms before being issued them. That might sound obvious to some people, but I wouldn't want the police in my country walking around with handguns they can't operate properly.

No...you wouldn't
We have exactly that here, and let me tell you, that's why I'm carrying myself. Cops here couldn't hit a barn door while inside the barn.

Little example

As a civilian, you need an accuracy rating of 80 to get a license
As a state cop, you need 70
As a metro cop, you need to know which end of the metal thingie the smaller metal thingie comes out.

Fun, innit?

 

[Nerdfury]

Variant to topic, but this answers a question I've been meaning to ask on a Torchwood forum. In one episode of Torchwood (season one), the character of PC (Police Constable) Gwen Cooper is taken into an indoor firing range by Jack, shown a selection of handguns (some of which appear to be police issue) and told that she'd "need to learn to use them."

That was confusing, because I figured that she should know already, being a police officer. Turns out she doesn't because UK police aren't armed - makes sense for the show, but really fucking terrifies me as a person. Guns are what makes armed forced something to be respected and feared. Sure, the legal right to arrest and fine might be enough for some people, and nightsticks/batons and spray might for others, but what about those that aren't fearful of those things?

 

[Kadoodle]

Oi, you should see the Israeli police. They're armed to take out an elephant.