Poll: Arming the UK Police

[GaryH]

To all those saying that we should legalise firearms, I honestly don't see your logic. This is a mental patient with a machete, in america he would have been a mental patient armed with a gun.

I say that there should be more guns available to the police, but that they are only issued them when responding to a call about someone who is armed. All police should have tazers at all times, though.

 

[R4ptur3]

I picked option B. The British have a good time moaning, and if police got guns, then the public would demand the legal use of guns, and so we are in the same position, only instead of that man wielding a melee weapon, he would have a gun and probably kill at least one police officer, before being shot himself.

 

[LiftYourSkinnyFists]

I'd like to see them armed with something non lethal, perhaps high velocity bean bags or something like riot police have, I understand why not every tom dick and harry police officer has a gun because it's just impractical in my opinion but give them a tazer or something close to that and we'll be fine...

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Police without firearms and no handguns/rifles in the hands of civilians is one of the few things that makes the UK great. How the USA can claim to be at the fore of the developed world when its citizens go round shooting up schools and college campuses fortnightly is farcical. Citizens should not be allowed to own or carry guns of the variety and sort they seem able to in the US. The Washington Sniper and the numerous school shootings don't seem to get through to our cousins across the pond however.

We've had them here too, but after Dunblane, handguns were banned and the others are few and far between in comparison. Not claiming UK is perfect, but no way should our police or citizens be allowed firearms, we're honestly far more civilised than that.

Special response units and specific presence in high-sensitivity areas is more than enough.

 

[EeveeElectro]

...Was that guy in a skirt?
They carry tazers, don't they? I would have tazered him.

Anyway, if they had weapons they would probably be taken more seriously over here.
I'd probably go for option 2.

 

[Westerschwelle]

In Germany every police officer is armed and we have no problem with any kind of weapon abuse. The things we hear from our police is mostly related to riots and how the police tend to be overly enthusiastic about stopping them.

 

[sarge1942]

"sarge1942:
why not meet in the middle and give them tazers or guns with rubber bullets, or both. That way nobody dies but you can still shoot somebody

People can still die from that."

sorry, i have no idea how the quoting this works

less people will die from the tasers and rubber bullets then, it's still better than a .38 to the face.

 

[Cypher10110]

There's also the matter of escalation, and the fact that suddenly, the state would have a tool the public could not fight against. If you give the police force guns without letting the public get guns then you've shifted so much power in their favor that you could risk a police-state situation.

The public shouldn't be able to fight against the state, that's kinda the reason the police exists. The state makes laws and the police enforces them. That's how it works. Else everyone would just run around and picking out the laws they think don't apply to them.

What if the state is acting in an unlawful way?
And you wish to rebel in a lawful manner?
But they arrest you unlawfully, to quell your lawful rebellion.

If you add guns into that situation it will only get worse.

If you trust your government, and stay out of their business. Then what you say is true. But if you do not trust or agree with what your government is doing, you need to have a voice. At the moment the police are silencing this voice.

 

[Westerschwelle]

Police without firearms and no handguns/rifles in the hands of civilians is one of the few things that makes the UK great. How the USA can claim to be at the fore of the developed world when its citizens go round shooting up schools and college campuses fortnightly is farcical. Citizens should not be allowed to own or carry guns of the variety and sort they seem able to in the US. The Washington Sniper and the numerous school shootings don't seem to get through to our cousins across the pond however.

We've had them here too, but after Dunblane, handguns were banned and the others are few and far between in comparison. Not claiming UK is perfect, but no way should our police or citizens be allowed firearms, we're honestly far more civilised than that.

Special response units and specific presence in high-sensitivity areas is more than enough.

Are you essentially saying, that guns in the hand of police officers would lead to school shootings and assassinations?

 

[orangeban]

Consider the logistics of arming the police with guns. Firstly, guns are expensive
Secondly, even more expensive is training all officers to use guns.
Thirdly, a lot of police won't want to use guns/aren't mentally strong enough to do so.

Also, currently there is a big push (at least in Scotland) for police "on every street corner". If we then make it every officer has a gun, well, that would be bloody scary is all I'm saying.

I mean, those massive blokes at airports with MP5s spook me (not saying they shouldn't be there) and a bobby with a gun being at every corner, I don't like the sound of that.

 

[Liam Riordan]

Where was the tazer in that instance? May have neutralized him, though I am unsure of that things range.

 

[sosolidshoe]

I've lived in the UK for over 20 years (all my life, put it that way ), and I haven't witnessed a single incident of the like shown in the video, ever.

You've either lived in very nice areas or you've been very lucky. I've seen more of these events (as an MOP, growing up in south London) than I'd care to have seen.

And as I said in my edit, I think a taser would have been a much better idea - the guy in the video didn't seem like the type to be threatened by a gun, and he would in all likelihood have been killed had the officers been armed with lethal weapons; an incident that would have been avoided had the officers been armed with tasers.

Unfortunately, tazers don't work especially well. Ignoring things like misfires, the way they're designed requires both (or four, if that's the design) probes to attach at wide spacing around the chest and not attach in a highly grouped way. Unfortunately, this is largely down to luck.

Also, is it just me or is it anyone living outside of the UK who are mostly calling for arming the UK officers?

There does seem to be a lot of support from abroad, yeah. Can't tell if it's the majority.

Of course it is, most of us actual Brits are well aware of what would happen if we armed our police - A Jean Charles de Menezes every other week. Police officers only encounter criminals or loons with firearms occasionally, and in most of the cases involving criminals, those encounters will be pre-planned and involve specially trained armed officers.

It's a very simple and utilitarian question; which is better, the occasional death of a police officer - who's job it is to protect the public - because they encounter an armed assailant without support and can't talk their way out of the situation; or a substantially increased rate of deaths among the public at large because of police officers resorting to their guns to solve problems, criminals arming up to counter the police, and a generally higher murder rate?

I know it's cold, but frankly, if the price of being able to walk the street without feeling the need to carry a deadly weapon "just in case" is a few police dying in the line of duty, that's a bargain. Don't like that? Don't join the police.

 

[Westerschwelle]

What if the state is acting in an unlawful way?
And you wish to rebel in a lawful manner?
But they arrest you unlawfully, to quell your lawful rebellion.

If you add guns into that situation it will only get worse.

If you trust your government, and stay out of their business. Then what you say is true. But if you do not trust or agree with what your government is doing, you need to have a voice. At the moment the police are silencing this voice.

Well I don't know how it is in the UK but here the state can't do unlawful things because they wouldn't have the backing of the armed forces. We have a system where soldiers have to refuse orders wich contradict current law and humanitarian rights. But that could have to do with our history so I don't know how it is in other countrys.

 

[Woodsey]

FUCK. NO.

I'm sure it says "last resort" on the paper, but whose gonna pull pepper spray if they've got a fucking gun?

Just no.

 

[AWC Viper]

I find it ironic that I could walk down the street with a pocket knife and be arrested for carrying a dangerous weapon and the guys who are arresting me have CS spray, batons and handcuffs. Hypocrisy much? I think no one should have guns.

But that's the point of the police, to be the higher power. To serve and protect
If they didn't have guns or any form of weapons what's to stop some muscle head from punching the officer a new one?

 

[Gitty101]

I wish the UK Police were allowed to carry firearms. It would make me feel safer at least

 

[Westerschwelle]

FUCK. NO.

I'm sure it says "last resort" on the paper, but whose gonna pull pepper spray if they've got a fucking gun?

People who don't like living the rest of their lives in jail?

 

[Kopikatsu]

Blah. Banning guns doesn't lead to less criminals having guns. If someone wants something, regardless of how illegal it is to own it, they will get their hands on it. There are gangs in the UK that have some pretty serious hardware while the Police have...well, basically nothing.

As was explained by the OP, tazers aren't infallible solutions to every problem. They really don't even work incredibly often. Give the Police some guns, for Christ's sake. I'm in the police academy right now (America), and if I didn't have a gun out on the streets, I'd be scared shitless. There was a semi-recent news story where two officers were gunned down just for being with the Police. Shit is messed up.

FUCK. NO.

I'm sure it says "last resort" on the paper, but whose gonna pull pepper spray if they've got a fucking gun?

Uh...the only time that police can pull a gun without getting in a metric shitton of trouble (You know, like hard jail time) is if lethal force is being threatened by the other party. Even if a police officer does kill someone who was endangering others, they're suspended and have to go to psychiatric counseling.

 

[AWC Viper]

I sleep well knowing these men are on the streets protecting us from danger every day.

"THAT MAN TOOK MY PURSE!"
"Don't worry mam, I got this..." Over-kill much?! Lol, what sort of danger do you expect to face every day - an enemy invasion?!

Well, There is a lot of organised crime in NYC and well, they might still be a tad iffy about that big thing that went down about 10 years ago.. better safe than sorry.

 

[mightybozz]

I find it ironic that I could walk down the street with a pocket knife and be arrested for carrying a dangerous weapon and the guys who are arresting me have CS spray, batons and handcuffs. Hypocrisy much? I think no one should have guns.

But that's the point of the police, to be the higher power. To serve and protect
If they didn't have guns or any form of weapons what's to stop some muscle head from punching the officer a new one?

The officer has friends and training, and the police, CPS and juries take assaults on police officers very seriously.