I don't know if you're the right person to answer this, but I'll ask anyways since I can:
What's your thoughts on the fact that Israel abstained from voting in the UN (or, more precisely, were absent from the vote) in regards of condemnation of the Russian annexation of Crimea? Apparently it's pissed off some people high up in the US, as they seem to have expected Israel to have voted in their favor.
I've read a couple of pieces discussing the matter, and the speculations are that it's a combination of some of the following:
- voting against Russia could mean problems from Iran and Syria, considering Russian influence in those countries
- Israel is afraid of opening itself to criticism if they condemn another country for annexing territory
- Netanyahu is supposedly annoyed at Obama for leaking that it was Israeli airplanes that bombed Syrian targets last year
Or it could be that the official excuse(strikes in the department of foreign affairs) is actually true.
Again, I don't know if you're the right person to ask, but considering how this has been portrayed in the media I've been reading, hearing another perspective on it would be nice. =)
(also, what's the missile codes mentioned in the poll? I will pay you for them with cookies. LOTS of cookies )
Hmmmm...not a bullpup man, clearly. Well, I won't let it drive a wedge between us. I would have thought it would make more sense, particularly in confined spaces, but presumably the higher-ups know what they're doing.[footnote][/footnote]
When you are out on patrols or such, do you often feel optimistic about your role? Do you think that a positive difference is being made by what you do - for instance, do you get to see more displays of friendliness or gratitude for the medical aid you give to the wounded? A friend of mine spent a tour in Afghanistan and remarked that a lot of what he did was possible because of the bonds of trust and respect he built up with the local population. He said to me once that you can only get so far without the consent of the populace.
EDIT: Intelligence officer, I think. He never fired his rifle once...I like to see that as something to be proud of, considering the efficiency with which he carried out his mission.
Not that I know of... we're glad the air and navy bombs the targets before we charge in, it makes our jobs easier. That said, we don't like other land units in peacetime - tankists (Armored), Batteries (Artillery) and Palhatch (Rescuers) give us a bad name...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57yj6DOAaRs
That's our armored divisions, if I'm not mistaken.
Do you know what we would do in their situation?
We kick their teeth in.
Calm down there, hotshot. I doubt armored divisions get nearly as much training in hand to hand combat as the infantry. Doesn't look like they had much in the way of non lethal weapons either. Not to mention they were outnumbered. Seems like the only 2 viable options were to start shooting or to retreat. I think the guys who decided not to start a massacre, did the right thing.
As for why they didn't have more non lethal weapons in the first place when trying to disperse a demonstration... seems like the army being good at what it does - being stupid.
Back to random questions. How's your physical fitness (running times, pushups and so on)? What's your ethnicity? Were you born in Israel or immigrated? Given an opportunity, which country in the world would you rather live in? Do you serve on a permanent base or do you keep getting stationed in different places? How much free time do you have (both while on base and when going home)? How do you entertain yourself in your free time on base (aside from eating dirt)? Do you have a nickname in the army or do they just call you by your last name? What do you think of tourniquets?
And on a more serious note. Army sucks, hang on there.
As a pacifist who has the great fortune of living in a country generally free of threat from foreign, sovereign attacks; what are your feelings on the act of taking another human life on the principle of orders alone? I think the decision to take another life is one that requires more introspection than just the reasons the state offers. I have no respect for those who take up arms just for the joy of using them without having to think about the moral issues that arise in a soldier's trade.
For perspective, I personally couldn't take another human life unless there were enemy boots on the soil of Canada bringing destruction to everything I love here. Until that point is reached however, no government is going to issue me a weapon and tell me I must be sent overseas. Peace for my country is a gift I thank my God for every time I read into war history (a fascinating subject for me) and I feel the greatest thing I can do to honour those who died for my generation is to live the best life I can while trying to leave something behind for those who follow to enjoy.
I can appreciate that diplomacy in the area might have a bad reputation and that in the social fabric of Israel, not serving might be seen as unpatriotic. Every soldier has their reasons to take up the fight other, older men start. I know there are radical, fanatic forces who want to see the destruction of your home. I just would like to know how those reasons reconcile with the basic, human belief that the lives of even those who oppose you have value.
Thanks for answering. I wish you and your friends who serve with you the best of luck. I hope when I'm much older I can look at world politics and see a more peaceful Middle East than the one I know exists right now. I have nothing but respect for those on the ground who, with a constantly thinking mind, serve to protect those who cannot defend themselves.
K well let's do this, I will do my best to be respectful to your religion and nationality, any questions you feel are simply insensitive or misinformed or repetitive, don't feel like you have to answer them.
1: Do you believe there is a place for Arabs in Israel? While I understand it was conceived as a Jewish state for the Jewish people to escape oppression, but I know some people who believe that this has led to a situation where it is now the Arab population who are being oppressed by people who believe they have a right to the land simply because of their religion/ethnicity. How would you respond to that?
2: What is your opinion on the Orthodox Jew population in Israel? From a few scattered news reports, I get the impression they are trying to forward an aggressively conservative agenda. Examples including separating men and women who are not married, and the government photoshopping female ministers out of publicity photos to appease them, while I would argue in defense of Israel that they are more liberal and progressive than their neighbors like Iran. Do they exert a considerable influence over the country?
3: What could the PLO do, in your opinion, to make Israel trust and co-operate with them? I personally have been confused with their actions, in that they make diplomatic appeals and say they want peace, whilst launching unprovoked attacks on the country.
4: How would you respond to a common accusation I hear leveled against the IDF: That they launch counter attacks against Palestine that are out of proportion with the Palestine aggression, and cause unacceptable civilian casualties? I have heard many cases that state the IDF used white phosphorous on civilians, which would constitue a war crime if it was proven more definitively.
Oh, do you get annoyed by inaccuracies in fiction about military and firearms? Stuff like terrible weapon discipline, I mean. If so, what in particular annoys you, what should writers and directors try to avoid, and what would you like to see more of?
-I have heard (admittadly, might be false entirely ) that there are groups that wish to expand the borders of Israel to those in Biblical times. Do they have any representation in the armed forces?
Or is it mainly the Orthodox citizens, and is it true that they are excempt from the conscription?
(I don't mean to come off as presumptive or accusative or anything, just for clarification's sake. It's a knotty question to get across without it sounding like an accusation, considering the unfair treatment Israel does tend to get.)
-I'd love to visit Israel some time. I've gotten the impression that guests and tourists are welcome (with clean noses, of course), but just in case; are tourists as a whole welcome? And how do you feel about them?
-Oh, and you mentioned a club as part of the gear. Is it some sort of baton, or is it home made, like a bit of pipe? Asking mainly because now I've got an image of soldiers with medieval Morning Stars attached to their belts. :3
I don't know if you're the right person to answer this, but I'll ask anyways since I can:
What's your thoughts on the fact that Israel abstained from voting in the UN (or, more precisely, were absent from the vote) in regards of condemnation of the Russian annexation of Crimea? Apparently it's pissed off some people high up in the US, as they seem to have expected Israel to have voted in their favor.
I've read a couple of pieces discussing the matter, and the speculations are that it's a combination of some of the following:
- voting against Russia could mean problems from Iran and Syria, considering Russian influence in those countries
- Israel is afraid of opening itself to criticism if they condemn another country for annexing territory
- Netanyahu is supposedly annoyed at Obama for leaking that it was Israeli airplanes that bombed Syrian targets last year
Or it could be that the official excuse(strikes in the department of foreign affairs) is actually true.
Again, I don't know if you're the right person to ask, but considering how this has been portrayed in the media I've been reading, hearing another perspective on it would be nice. =)
(also, what's the missile codes mentioned in the poll? I will pay you for them with cookies. LOTS of cookies )
.
In regards to the Crimea ordeal and Israeli diplomatic relations - Israel is sending a message to the US. If Russia can do as it pleases without any strong reaction, then Iran could do the same. Israel is also signaling the Russian's it's ready for some dialogue by not criticizing them. That, and the comparison to Israel's territories is also a possibility. China is already making some influence by buying large companies within the country and pouring in money (but mostly just to steal unique technological advancements within Israel).
The leak is one among many. Official USA doesn't like Israel, especially the clerks.
.
Barbas said:
Hmmmm...not a bullpup man, clearly. Well, I won't let it drive a wedge between us. I would have thought it would make more sense, particularly in confined spaces, but presumably the higher-ups know what they're doing.[footnote][/footnote]
When you are out on patrols or such, do you often feel optimistic about your role? Do you think that a positive difference is being made by what you do - for instance, do you get to see more displays of friendliness or gratitude for the medical aid you give to the wounded? A friend of mine spent a tour in Afghanistan and remarked that a lot of what he did was possible because of the bonds of trust and respect he built up with the local population. He said to me once that you can only get so far without the consent of the populace.
EDIT: Intelligence officer, I think. He never fired his rifle once...I like to see that as something to be proud of, considering the efficiency with which he carried out his mission.
.
I make a difference by showing people I exist. I am ready and able to stop any crimes and defend the locals. People don't always know I'm a medic, but in many cases 18c can roll off to save lives instead of an ambulance when that one isn't around.
The local Arabs either hate us or try to avoid us. The mission isn't similar to Afghanistan. You don't have small American colonies in Afghanistan.
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Knife said:
TheIronRuler said:
Not that I know of... we're glad the air and navy bombs the targets before we charge in, it makes our jobs easier. That said, we don't like other land units in peacetime - tankists (Armored), Batteries (Artillery) and Palhatch (Rescuers) give us a bad name...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57yj6DOAaRs
That's our armored divisions, if I'm not mistaken.
Do you know what we would do in their situation?
We kick their teeth in.
Calm down there, hotshot. I doubt armored divisions get nearly as much training in hand to hand combat as the infantry. Doesn't look like they had much in the way of non lethal weapons either. Not to mention they were outnumbered. Seems like the only 2 viable options were to start shooting or to retreat. I think the guys who decided not to start a massacre, did the right thing.
As for why they didn't have more non lethal weapons in the first place when trying to disperse a demonstration... seems like the army being good at what it does - being stupid.
Back to random questions. How's your physical fitness (running times, pushups and so on)? What's your ethnicity? Were you born in Israel or immigrated? Given an opportunity, which country in the world would you rather live in? Do you serve on a permanent base or do you keep getting stationed in different places? How much free time do you have (both while on base and when going home)? How do you entertain yourself in your free time on base (aside from eating dirt)? Do you have a nickname in the army or do they just call you by your last name? What do you think of tourniquets?
And on a more serious note. Army sucks, hang on there.
.
Being outnumbered is nothing as long as you stick together and avoid being zerg-rushed. The best crowd-dispersal weapon is the butt of your gun. Had they shot, they would have all gone in Jail... Although they could have shot in the air as a warning shot before storming at them and arresting the stone-throwers. They weren't supposed to disperse a demonstration - they were running after some stone-throwers when they were lured around a corner and were met by a score of fellow stone-throwers. Ouch. They did not see it coming.
My physical fitness is a bit below average, really. I can do ten lifts and I run 3 Km in 14 minutes... I'm not the king of Stamina. I'm Russian (Ukrainian). My parents were born abroad, I in Israel. I would rather live in Saudi Arabia as a prince or in Switzerland. I keep getting stationed in different places. Border Police have permanent bases. Free time depends on how many people we have around for our routine tasks. Sometimes I barely sleep 5 hours a day - other days have me do a two-hour workout, sleep for eight hours and finish a whole book. I like hanging out with friends, working out or reading a book or two. They call me by my first name - I'm the only one in the unit whose first name stuck instead of his last.
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Redlin5 said:
As a pacifist who has the great fortune of living in a country generally free of threat from foreign, sovereign attacks; what are your feelings on the act of taking another human life on the principle of orders alone? I think the decision to take another life is one that requires more introspection than just the reasons the state offers. I have no respect for those who take up arms just for the joy of using them without having to think about the moral issues that arise in a soldier's trade.
For perspective, I personally couldn't take another human life unless there were enemy boots on the soil of Canada bringing destruction to everything I love here. Until that point is reached however, no government is going to issue me a weapon and tell me I must be sent overseas. Peace for my country is a gift I thank my God for every time I read into war history (a fascinating subject for me) and I feel the greatest thing I can do to honour those who died for my generation is to live the best life I can while trying to leave something behind for those who follow to enjoy.
I can appreciate that diplomacy in the area might have a bad reputation and that in the social fabric of Israel, not serving might be seen as unpatriotic. Every soldier has their reasons to take up the fight other, older men start. I know there are radical, fanatic forces who want to see the destruction of your home. I just would like to know how those reasons reconcile with the basic, human belief that the lives of even those who oppose you have value.
Thanks for answering. I wish you and your friends who serve with you the best of luck. I hope when I'm much older I can look at world politics and see a more peaceful Middle East than the one I know exists right now. I have nothing but respect for those on the ground who, with a constantly thinking mind, serve to protect those who cannot defend themselves.
.
We're taught when to refuse an order. Taking a life without a reason is one of those cases. Otherwise, shooting at enemy combatants is what we are trained to do. It's us or them. I won't die for my country, I'll let the other bastard die for his. I'm sorry if I've answered your polite and well-written post with this gruff response, but this is how I feel. Stationed inside Israel or inside the borders of our enemies, we follow orders because our role is not to strategize but to do what we're told.
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P912 said:
K well let's do this, I will do my best to be respectful to your religion and nationality, any questions you feel are simply insensitive or misinformed or repetitive, don't feel like you have to answer them.
1: Do you believe there is a place for Arabs in Israel? While I understand it was conceived as a Jewish state for the Jewish people to escape oppression, but I know some people who believe that this has led to a situation where it is now the Arab population who are being oppressed by people who believe they have a right to the land simply because of their religion/ethnicity. How would you respond to that?
2: What is your opinion on the Orthodox Jew population in Israel? From a few scattered news reports, I get the impression they are trying to forward an aggressively conservative agenda. Examples including separating men and women who are not married, and the government photoshopping female ministers out of publicity photos to appease them, while I would argue in defense of Israel that they are more liberal and progressive than their neighbors like Iran. Do they exert a considerable influence over the country?
3: What could the PLO do, in your opinion, to make Israel trust and co-operate with them? I personally have been confused with their actions, in that they make diplomatic appeals and say they want peace, whilst launching unprovoked attacks on the country.
4: How would you respond to a common accusation I hear leveled against the IDF: That they launch counter attacks against Palestine that are out of proportion with the Palestine aggression, and cause unacceptable civilian casualties? I have heard many cases that state the IDF used white phosphorous on civilians, which would constitue a war crime if it was proven more definitively.
.
1.They're a part of Israel, and are equals to us. It is, however, a country for the Jews, but I don't believe they are not welcomed to live here. I like Ze'ev Jabotinsky regarding this issue. Not a lot of people share my believes. I think that 'those people' don't know the first thing about this country and its people.
2. The orthodox Jews are a community inside the country of Israel, and I would wish for them to integrate better in our society. They are a self-enclosed community that rejects the general population of Israel. I wish they hadn't. Their believes are theirs to keep, as long as the laws of the state are not infringed upon. They have sway in parliament, holding one sixth of seats and usually standing as the balance-breakers when construction coalitions on the right or on the left.
3. They should disband. They should find new leadership. They should stop with the sham and their kleptocracy and truly help their people instead of spending their money on foreign embassies and hate campaigns against Israel.
4. Israel had a long history of escalating violence, often reacting to attacks on it with disproportional force - in Hebrew, "LeMaan Iro Ve Irao" - "So they will See and Fear US", a biblical term. It's vengeance, it's scare tactics, it's our way for many years. Unfortunate when civilians get hurt, but as a general rule we don't seek out to kill civilians even when the other side does it as their own rule of war.
.
thaluikhain said:
Oh, do you get annoyed by inaccuracies in fiction about military and firearms? Stuff like terrible weapon discipline, I mean. If so, what in particular annoys you, what should writers and directors try to avoid, and what would you like to see more of?
.
Yep - people carrying a lot of firearms, for one. They're heavy, and there's no such thing as a different weapon for a different situation. Soldiers with a bandoleer of bullets when the gun is loaded with magazines. Guns having thousands of bullets without ever being reloaded...
Rifles slung behind the desperado's back...
A lot of stuff.
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Muspelheim said:
-I have heard (admittadly, might be false entirely ) that there are groups that wish to expand the borders of Israel to those in Biblical times. Do they have any representation in the armed forces?
Or is it mainly the Orthodox citizens, and is it true that they are excempt from the conscription?
(I don't mean to come off as presumptive or accusative or anything, just for clarification's sake. It's a knotty question to get across without it sounding like an accusation, considering the unfair treatment Israel does tend to get.)
-I'd love to visit Israel some time. I've gotten the impression that guests and tourists are welcome (with clean noses, of course), but just in case; are tourists as a whole welcome? And how do you feel about them?
-Oh, and you mentioned a club as part of the gear. Is it some sort of baton, or is it home made, like a bit of pipe? Asking mainly because now I've got an image of soldiers with medieval Morning Stars attached to their belts. :3
.
- Yeah. There's like 3 people in Israel that think this way. They're completely batshit crazy. That said, some people believe all of the mandate territory should remain Israeli, and a few feel the same about Jordan.
- The Orthodox Citizens are mostly exempt from conscription if they are 'dedicated to a life of Torah', but nowadays it isn't so sure... Some people in government are trying to change that, though they aren't really succeeding.
- Guests and Tourists are very welcomed, and are one of Israel's largest industries. Come over and see the sights, speak with the people and eat the food - oh, and come again soon!
- You deal with your own equipment... We're not issued batons like the Border Police, but some of us craft our own (made of wood) in case we get to non-lethal close combat. There are are stuff you can create, like slings for grenades (which are awesome).
Hooray, I have lots of questions that I never got around to looking up.
A general question about militaries that someone from the IDF can probably answer: how does the relationship between a senior NCO and a lieutenant work? I mean, it always seemed odd to me that the guy fresh out of the officer's academy has higher authority over the guy who has been working alongside the troops for years...
Is it just me or does the Israeli government always make cryptic statements like "well, we're not saying it's not true, but we're not confirming it either" when asked about things like nukes and cyberattacks and bombing raids?
I have a friend who used to be in the IDF who I engage in friendly debate over the Israel/Palestine issue, and he seemed to be unaware that the PLO formerly recognized the State of Israel back with the Oslo Accords...is that not general knowledge over there?
Lastly, how did you guys manage to turn the rather nice looking AK-47 into the butt-ugly Galil?
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Depends on the people in uniform. A lieutenant fresh from academy is looked upon as a young, inexperienced hot-head, and they usually are. NCOs under their service often have to teach them things (how it really goes on in real life). Sometimes they try to reign them in too harshly, and you get into a pickle - the officer can screw over his soldiers, but the soldiers can royally fuck him regardless (if they come together). If there's chemistry between them it's all sunshine and lollipops. If not... prepare for the worse.
The Israeli government is in a habit of not admitting to acts of aggression on its neighbors, since, y'know, it's acts of aggression not during a war.
The PLO recognized Israel in the Oslo Accords (but not as "a jewish country"). The Oslo Accords are a worthless piece of trash nowadays. It also said that the PLO can't change its status (to that of statehood) while the negotiations go on, and the two sides pissed on the agreement a thousand and one times. Plus, the demand for recognizing Israel as "A Jewish Country" is on purpose - it would put the PLO leadership at odds with the rest of the freaking Arab and Muslim world that hates our guts... Even though Arafat did that. They're still traumatized from the Kuwait exodus.
I mean, the Israeli government often seems to deny things in an extremely sketchy way, instead of just outright saying "we had nothing to do with it." Why not just say it with confidence, even if it's a lie? But thanks for the answers.
By the way, who cares if it's a Jewish country or a secular state that happens to have a lot of Jews...does the specific demand for a "Jewish" state only exist to make sure the Arabs never accept it?
First of all, thanks for making this thread! Really great one!
TheIronRuler said:
In regards to the Crimea ordeal and Israeli diplomatic relations - Israel is sending a message to the US. If Russia can do as it pleases without any strong reaction, then Iran could do the same. Israel is also signaling the Russian's it's ready for some dialogue by not criticizing them. That, and the comparison to Israel's territories is also a possibility. China is already making some influence by buying large companies within the country and pouring in money (but mostly just to steal unique technological advancements within Israel).
The leak is one among many. Official USA doesn't like Israel, especially the clerks.
This is a very interesting point. I get the impression that in some people's opinion, it seems to them like "Israel can do what it wants because the US protect them" and "the US are doing far too much for Israel". Now, I'm certainly not taking position in this (I neither should (German) nor could (living far away, not as familiar with the actual problems people directly involved in the conflict face)), just saying that this is the sentiment of some people to give some perspective to my questions.
My Questions:
Do you feel like western countries (US/EU) are either not doing enough (or too much?) for you are meddling to much into Israel's business? Either answered personally or from the point of public sentiment would be great!
What do you think should western countries do to support/assist Israel and especially the people living there?
I prefer rubber bullets, tear gas and flash bang grenades. Using your rifle as an improvised club carries the hazard of your weapon being snatched by the angry mob. And if the angry mob gets an actual weapon, things go south quickly.
TheIronRuler said:
Had they shot, they would have all gone in Jail... Although they could have shot in the air as a warning shot before storming at them and arresting the stone-throwers. They weren't supposed to disperse a demonstration - they were running after some stone-throwers when they were lured around a corner and were met by a score of fellow stone-throwers. Ouch. They did not see it coming.
Here's the first news article I found after looking for the video:
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=6680
"Combat Engineering Corps trying to disperse a demonstration in Kafr Qaddum"
I guess the article could be wrong. From my personal experience in the army, riot shields are usually brought when a demonstration is expected. If you bother bringing riot shields, you might as well bring something more than a club with you.
Follow up question - what books have your read lately and which ones would you recommend?
Hooray, I have lots of questions that I never got around to looking up.
A general question about militaries that someone from the IDF can probably answer: how does the relationship between a senior NCO and a lieutenant work? I mean, it always seemed odd to me that the guy fresh out of the officer's academy has higher authority over the guy who has been working alongside the troops for years...
Is it just me or does the Israeli government always make cryptic statements like "well, we're not saying it's not true, but we're not confirming it either" when asked about things like nukes and cyberattacks and bombing raids?
I have a friend who used to be in the IDF who I engage in friendly debate over the Israel/Palestine issue, and he seemed to be unaware that the PLO formerly recognized the State of Israel back with the Oslo Accords...is that not general knowledge over there?
Lastly, how did you guys manage to turn the rather nice looking AK-47 into the butt-ugly Galil?
.
Depends on the people in uniform. A lieutenant fresh from academy is looked upon as a young, inexperienced hot-head, and they usually are. NCOs under their service often have to teach them things (how it really goes on in real life). Sometimes they try to reign them in too harshly, and you get into a pickle - the officer can screw over his soldiers, but the soldiers can royally fuck him regardless (if they come together). If there's chemistry between them it's all sunshine and lollipops. If not... prepare for the worse.
The Israeli government is in a habit of not admitting to acts of aggression on its neighbors, since, y'know, it's acts of aggression not during a war.
The PLO recognized Israel in the Oslo Accords (but not as "a jewish country"). The Oslo Accords are a worthless piece of trash nowadays. It also said that the PLO can't change its status (to that of statehood) while the negotiations go on, and the two sides pissed on the agreement a thousand and one times. Plus, the demand for recognizing Israel as "A Jewish Country" is on purpose - it would put the PLO leadership at odds with the rest of the freaking Arab and Muslim world that hates our guts... Even though Arafat did that. They're still traumatized from the Kuwait exodus.
I mean, the Israeli government often seems to deny things in an extremely sketchy way, instead of just outright saying "we had nothing to do with it." Why not just say it with confidence, even if it's a lie? But thanks for the answers.
By the way, who cares if it's a Jewish country or a secular state that happens to have a lot of Jews...does the specific demand for a "Jewish" state only exist to make sure the Arabs never accept it?
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It's "I can't confirm or Deny *nudge* *wink*" type of thing.
We care. Admitting it is a Jewish country brings the foundation that Israel is on its rightfully owned land because it is the Jewish homeland.
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rofltehcat said:
First of all, thanks for making this thread! Really great one!
TheIronRuler said:
In regards to the Crimea ordeal and Israeli diplomatic relations - Israel is sending a message to the US. If Russia can do as it pleases without any strong reaction, then Iran could do the same. Israel is also signaling the Russian's it's ready for some dialogue by not criticizing them. That, and the comparison to Israel's territories is also a possibility. China is already making some influence by buying large companies within the country and pouring in money (but mostly just to steal unique technological advancements within Israel).
The leak is one among many. Official USA doesn't like Israel, especially the clerks.
This is a very interesting point. I get the impression that in some people's opinion, it seems to them like "Israel can do what it wants because the US protect them" and "the US are doing far too much for Israel". Now, I'm certainly not taking position in this (I neither should (German) nor could (living far away, not as familiar with the actual problems people directly involved in the conflict face)), just saying that this is the sentiment of some people to give some perspective to my questions.
My Questions:
Do you feel like western countries (US/EU) are either not doing enough (or too much?) for you are meddling to much into Israel's business? Either answered personally or from the point of public sentiment would be great!
What do you think should western countries do to support/assist Israel and especially the people living there?
.
The EU is meddling with Israel much more than it would its own neighbors (Turkey, Balkan states). It's strange to see how North Cyprus never gets mentioned while the EU finds massive resources to push Israel into the place they want it to be.
People who are for outside meddling are from the left who cannot change the public opinion enough to cause a shift in policy-making. It's their only chance of imposing their views on their society.
I haven't the slightest clue... Investments? *shrugs*
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thaluikhain said:
TheIronRuler said:
There are are stuff you can create, like slings for grenades (which are awesome).
.
Most women aren't in combat roles. They handle office-work or go out to be valuable members in the intelligence and/or computing community in the army. A lot don't do much in their service, and just pass time. A lot of men do the same.
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Knife said:
TheIronRuler said:
Being outnumbered is nothing as long as you stick together and avoid being zerg-rushed.
I prefer rubber bullets, tear gas and flash bang grenades. Using your rifle as an improvised club carries the hazard of your weapon being snatched by the angry mob. And if the angry mob gets an actual weapon, things go south quickly.
TheIronRuler said:
Had they shot, they would have all gone in Jail... Although they could have shot in the air as a warning shot before storming at them and arresting the stone-throwers. They weren't supposed to disperse a demonstration - they were running after some stone-throwers when they were lured around a corner and were met by a score of fellow stone-throwers. Ouch. They did not see it coming.
Here's the first news article I found after looking for the video:
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=6680
"Combat Engineering Corps trying to disperse a demonstration in Kafr Qaddum"
I guess the article could be wrong. From my personal experience in the army, riot shields are usually brought when a demonstration is expected. If you bother bringing riot shields, you might as well bring something more than a club with you.
Follow up question - what books have your read lately and which ones would you recommend?
.
I haven't been in such a situation before, really. Being surprised like that is nasty, and I always assumed they were just jumped on without knowing the magnitude of the riot. In my experience they get back when you threaten them with physical violence and step towards them (stone-throwers that get too close). They could have used tear-gas and flash-bangs.
Lately I've started with the first law trilogy (the blade itself), read Equinox, Good Omens, Pompeii, Paranoia... I'm a sucker for suspense and fantasy genres. I would recommend the first law trilogy (even if I haven't finished it yet), Good Omens, The Hobbit, oh - one I've read a long time ago, called "The Good Soldier Svejik". That humor is priceless. I have Douglas Adams and some local Hebrew books on my list.
Ah, I see! That makes sense, no matter where you go, there are mad old men who see it as the rightful centre of a revived empire of the past of some description. Perhaps it's for the best of everyone that they aren't part of the military, as unpleasant as it sounds.
The food sound marvellous, and the view (of both sorts) is lovely, I've heard. Good to know guests are welcome! Definately visiting one day.
thaluikhain said:
TheIronRuler said:
There are are stuff you can create, like slings for grenades (which are awesome).
Hi another israely here.
I see that a lot of questions here are not directly about TheIronRuler's service so I thought I could chime in on some questions.
I am a student in the Technion ? Israel Institute of Technology, and served in the air force as a computer technician between 2006 and 2009.
why do you use a picture and the nickname of the arguably most level headed german chancellor?
i realize the name makes for a great pun in english, so if that is the reason, consider yourself successful.
This is a nice thread, I knew I've already posted, buuuuuuut
- So Israel is referred to as the Jewish homeland right? Not disputing that, I mean where else would Israel have a homeland? Utah? hah hah hah (Oh look, Mormons, don't make eye contact)
But the Fertile Crescent is already a hotly disputed area between many different groups, and no offence, but the Palestinians sort of moved in during the millenium many Israelis left. Is it fair to just uproot millions because that's your homeland?
- Jerusalem is a holy city for Jews, but its also a holy city for Christians and the (3rd?) holy city for muslims. Why should the Jews get it?
Wouldn't partitioning the city 3 ways a la Berlin be a biiiiiit better for all parties? Sure, nobody would be happy, but nobody could say they've lost either.
- If Jerusalem came under full Israeli control tomorrow, what changes would be made? I assume you're familiar with the Dome of the Rock? Would Israel risk sparking World War 3 just so they can reclaim the Temple hill? And if so, would they restore some sort of religious leadership? (last question doesn't need answering, you're a soldier, not a rabbi or theologist)
- What does the average Israeli consider to be 'Israel', and would they be in favour of absorbing the West Bank and/or Gaza?
- I mentioned in an earlier post that I live in Northern Ireland. We too had our share of problems with the line drawn largely by religion. Let me just say that while there are still a few extreme opinions out there, most people just forgive and forget the past.
Do you see some similar agreement happening between Israel and Palestine (seriously, look up the Good Friday Agreement)
Because honestly, if neither party plans to end the bloodshed, then the only way to end the violence is eventually just gonna be genocide. I'm sure that'll never be attempted by either side though *nervous laughter* (happened here once or twice :/)
- What type of history are Israelis taught, I was just thinking this because ours focuses quite a bit on the injustices and atrocities committed on both sides during the Troubles, and even in the colonial era. Just wondering what (if any) stories are told concerning modern politics for Israelis.
This is a nice thread, I knew I've already posted, buuuuuuut
- So Israel is referred to as the Jewish homeland right? Not disputing that, I mean where else would Israel have a homeland? Utah? hah hah hah (Oh look, Mormons, don't make eye contact)
But the Fertile Crescent is already a hotly disputed area between many different groups, and no offence, but the Palestinians sort of moved in during the millenium many Israelis left. Is it fair to just uproot millions because that's your homeland?
- Jerusalem is a holy city for Jews, but its also a holy city for Christians and the (3rd?) holy city for muslims. Why should the Jews get it?
Wouldn't partitioning the city 3 ways a la Berlin be a biiiiiit better for all parties? Sure, nobody would be happy, but nobody could say they've lost either.
- If Jerusalem came under full Israeli control tomorrow, what changes would be made? I assume you're familiar with the Dome of the Rock? Would Israel risk sparking World War 3 just so they can reclaim the Temple hill? And if so, would they restore some sort of religious leadership? (last question doesn't need answering, you're a soldier, not a rabbi or theologist)
- What does the average Israeli consider to be 'Israel', and would they be in favour of absorbing the West Bank and/or Gaza?
- I mentioned in an earlier post that I live in Northern Ireland. We too had our share of problems with the line drawn largely by religion. Let me just say that while there are still a few extreme opinions out there, most people just forgive and forget the past.
Do you see some similar agreement happening between Israel and Palestine (seriously, look up the Good Friday Agreement)
Because honestly, if neither party plans to end the bloodshed, then the only way to end the violence is eventually just gonna be genocide. I'm sure that'll never be attempted by either side though *nervous laughter* (happened here once or twice :/)
- What type of history are Israelis taught, I was just thinking this because ours focuses quite a bit on the injustices and atrocities committed on both sides during the Troubles, and even in the colonial era. Just wondering what (if any) stories are told concerning modern politics for Israelis.
- First of all The main goal of the Zionist movement of the 19th century was to have A state for the Jewish people. Israel was chosen as the most suitable location for several reasons: a. the historical connections between the lend and the Jewish nation. b. the religious element, the land and Jerusalem in particular are holy to the Jewish people. c. the place was very sparsely populated and under developed, the plan was never to evict the local Arabs but live alongside them. (In modern Israel there are many Israeli Arabs who are full-fledged citizens.) d. the Palestinians territories where not self-governed since the romans conquered them from the Jews in the first century B.C, the Zionists tried to negotiate with the Ottomans who ruled the place for the last few centuries for the rights to settle there. When WW one ended the place was conquered by the British who did agree to let the Jewish people build a state there.
- First almost all the Christians who live in Israel are either Israeli or Palestinians so a 3 way separation makes no sense. In the case of a two states solutions there are some neighborhoods who will become part of the Palestinian state, but all the holy sites are gathered at the same place - the ancient city. To give you a picture of how convoluted things are the rock dome is built ON the location of the Jewish Temple the holiest place for Jews. The western wall is the holiest where modern Jews are allowed to worship. How do you divide the place between Muslims and Jews where one religion worship by a wall that support the courtyard where the other religion worship?
Whoever control the ancient city must hold three obligations: 1. Maintain all the religious sites. 2. Allow the other side access for worship as well. 3. Support tourists and religious pilgrims from all around the world, and provide them access to the sites of worship.
- Jerusalem is under full Israeli control since 1967. There are some nutcases who would like to build a new temple, but they are an out there minority. Besides the Masaya needs to come for the third temple to be built. So until a magical world changing Jewish demigod waltz into Jerusalem and bring all the dead in the olive mountain back to life, I'd say that the Dome of the rock is safe.
Edit: The questions I didn't get to before ?
-Eventually if we won't kill each other we will reach an understanding. There is only so long two people can keep fighting. It might take another century or more but in the end people will forget why they hate each other. I do hope that both us and the Palestinians will have the courage to end the bloodshed sooner, (and it will require that both leaderships will be willing to risk an almost assured political suicide) but every solution to the conflict will come at a very steep price for both sides.
- To be perfectly honest we learn our side of the story. Thing is there are some very strong inconstancy between what they teach in Israeli schools and what they teach in Palestinian school. I would like to see an historian commenting on the textbooks of both sides.
Our media and art on the other hand is very introspective and critical going into political and social critic far more often than what seem to be the norm in the U.S nowadays.
Hi another israely here.
I see that a lot of questions here are not directly about TheIronRuler's service so I thought I could chime in on some questions.
I am a student in the Technion ? Israel Institute of Technology, and served in the air force as a computer technician between 2006 and 2009.
why do you use a picture and the nickname of the arguably most level headed german chancellor?
i realize the name makes for a great pun in english, so if that is the reason, consider yourself successful.
.
The pun was a plus, but I'm not just all about being punny. Bismark was an inspiration, and I read heavily into his life and work at the time of this profile creation.
.
Josh12345 said:
This is a nice thread, I knew I've already posted, buuuuuuut
- So Israel is referred to as the Jewish homeland right? Not disputing that, I mean where else would Israel have a homeland? Utah? hah hah hah (Oh look, Mormons, don't make eye contact)
But the Fertile Crescent is already a hotly disputed area between many different groups, and no offence, but the Palestinians sort of moved in during the millenium many Israelis left. Is it fair to just uproot millions because that's your homeland?
- Jerusalem is a holy city for Jews, but its also a holy city for Christians and the (3rd?) holy city for muslims. Why should the Jews get it?
Wouldn't partitioning the city 3 ways a la Berlin be a biiiiiit better for all parties? Sure, nobody would be happy, but nobody could say they've lost either.
- If Jerusalem came under full Israeli control tomorrow, what changes would be made? I assume you're familiar with the Dome of the Rock? Would Israel risk sparking World War 3 just so they can reclaim the Temple hill? And if so, would they restore some sort of religious leadership? (last question doesn't need answering, you're a soldier, not a rabbi or theologist)
- What does the average Israeli consider to be 'Israel', and would they be in favour of absorbing the West Bank and/or Gaza?
- I mentioned in an earlier post that I live in Northern Ireland. We too had our share of problems with the line drawn largely by religion. Let me just say that while there are still a few extreme opinions out there, most people just forgive and forget the past.
Do you see some similar agreement happening between Israel and Palestine (seriously, look up the Good Friday Agreement)
Because honestly, if neither party plans to end the bloodshed, then the only way to end the violence is eventually just gonna be genocide. I'm sure that'll never be attempted by either side though *nervous laughter* (happened here once or twice :/)
- What type of history are Israelis taught, I was just thinking this because ours focuses quite a bit on the injustices and atrocities committed on both sides during the Troubles, and even in the colonial era. Just wondering what (if any) stories are told concerning modern politics for Israelis.
.
*coughs*
They weren't millions at the time, they were barely a hundred thousand living there in a piece of land that could have accommodated a much larger population. The consequences of the war of independence was the removal of local arabs from their homes within the green line, but it wasn't the goal in the first place.
Jerusalem is the holiest site in Judaism, period. It is mentioned in many of its prayers, and the saying "Next Year in Jerusalem" was spoken for over two thousand years at every celebration of Passover. It is not just a holy site for Judaism - it is THE holy site for all of Judaism. Christians have important holy sites within it for all important sects (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox), and they have representation in the city itself. Muslims don't view Jerusalem as a holy site - not until it was taken away by the Jewish state - had it been so, it would have been traveled and settled by many Muslims not unlike Mecca (Which IS Islam's most important holy sites, as the Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam). The fact is that Jerusalem was a backwater place during the Ottoman empire, and remained uninteresting during the British mandate, it was only when the Jews claimed it and held it that the Muslim world stood up in uproar. The theological explanation speaks of Muhammad's dream, when he flew over the city on a Pegasus like creature.
The city can't be divided since all of the holy sites are littered across the place, and you can't divide it based on them. It'd be ludicrous.
Israel already has full control over Jerusalem, and when it conquered it from Jordan it didn't tear down the dome of the rock, but allowed the local charity that owned it to continue its practices.
The Average person in Israel considers the Golan Heights, Jerusalem, settlement blocks (Gush Etzion, Ariel) and the Jordan valley to be an integral part of Israel, and very few would say the same for Hebron or Nabulus.
Drawing a border based on religion would have Israel relinquish territory and Muslim citizens for a new Palestinian state. Many of them prefer to stay with us. Many cities in Israel are mixed with both Jews and Muslims, and other religious minorities exist (such as the Druze).
Israelis are taught about the Zionist movement, first immigration waves, the underground (Haganah, Lehi), the British Mandate, War of Independence, first years of the nation, 1967... This is a rather broad question. Do you mind narrowing it down?
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