Poll: Atheist Morality
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I think we all have morals any way we are. You don't need a god or gods to direct all of your morals. you can BASE your morals on such things as the Bible or Qarran(did i spell that right?) but its not fully necessary. and the only do good to be in heaven thing i don't think is right. i think if you follow your OWN MORALS then that is looked upon as 'good'.
Also I am religious but some of my best friends are atheists so i really don't mind, since we all have different ideas or morals. it also makes for fun debates.
Also I am religious but some of my best friends are atheists so i really don't mind, since we all have different ideas or morals. it also makes for fun debates.
That's fine right there, it doesn't matter if you believe in a god or not it's just your own feelings on things. To reply to Nerf Ninja, that made me laugh cause it makes a lot of sense. Although I think that God is a lot more leniant on things than some *cough* fanatics *cough* make him out to be.
If God existed to a degree where He/She/Its existance was irrefutable, then no. But He/She/It doesn't exist to that capacity, therefore God will always be refutable, and therefore yes, we can be good people without Him/Her/It.
Just because a person does not believe in an omniscient greater being doesn't mean they have no basis for morality. The same way some people believe killing is wrong because GOD deems it that way, an Atheist would believe it is wrong because the LAW deems it . . .
The very notion that without faith, we have nothing is really quite a stretch. Considering that faith has caused more, and bloodier wars then law probably ever will. The purpose of law, is to keep things like murder from happening. If all we had to stop that was things ordered by religion . . . there would BE no laws, there would BE no government, the church would rule the world and those who do not believe would define a system of morals that they believe are right to follow.
The very notion that without faith, we have nothing is really quite a stretch. Considering that faith has caused more, and bloodier wars then law probably ever will. The purpose of law, is to keep things like murder from happening. If all we had to stop that was things ordered by religion . . . there would BE no laws, there would BE no government, the church would rule the world and those who do not believe would define a system of morals that they believe are right to follow.
Of course morality is not restricted to those who believe in God. Some might argue it makes a person more moral if they do good because of their own desire, rather than fear of some heavenly father-figure shaking his finger in disappointment. Probably needless to say now that I'm not religious but consider myself to be moral.
The Moral of story, for those of you who are not old enough to remember stories with morals at the end 
was simply 'the Wisdom' of the story.
It is obvious to anyone wise why you do not kill or steal or make enemies, perhaps not as obvious to anyone without wisdom.
Morals are a replacement for Wisdom for people who are lacking.
Its also important to flip the question around too: Does lack of morality have a basis in God?
There is a well known passage in the Bible where God tells someone to sacrifice their only son on an altar, but was only testing and so told them to stop when he was just about to.
Is this the basis for morality today? To do whatever God says? What if God had not given the order to stop? Any follower of God in that situation would have killed their own children, and it too would have been a 'Moral' act to them because anything, no matter how psychotic, is then Moral.
was simply 'the Wisdom' of the story.It is obvious to anyone wise why you do not kill or steal or make enemies, perhaps not as obvious to anyone without wisdom.
Morals are a replacement for Wisdom for people who are lacking.
Its also important to flip the question around too: Does lack of morality have a basis in God?
There is a well known passage in the Bible where God tells someone to sacrifice their only son on an altar, but was only testing and so told them to stop when he was just about to.
Is this the basis for morality today? To do whatever God says? What if God had not given the order to stop? Any follower of God in that situation would have killed their own children, and it too would have been a 'Moral' act to them because anything, no matter how psychotic, is then Moral.
The concept of God is to scare people into being productive members of society E.G. "good". But you don't need it if you understand the basic fact that being "good" makes your life and the life of those around you much easier.
Tying religion and "goodness" together is a fallacious argument.
Tying religion and "goodness" together is a fallacious argument.
So baisicaly your saying that, on the assumption that there's now divne being, Morals/morality is man-made; meaning that it's what we personally think is right?The Man Who Is Thursday said:Yarg, you all sure make it hard to lurk successfully.
As others have said, it does depend on what you mean by morality. If morals are relative, of course there doesn't need to be a basis on God. Relativity implies that there is no basis, it's a free-for-all, essentially. That is generally what the moral argument for God is about. If one can prove that morals exist in an a priori, infinite, and universal way, then their cause would, by definition, be God. Whether or not it's the Christian God would still be up for debate, but the point is that they would be grounded in some superior, immutable *being*. If this being doesn't exist, then there's no immutable law, because we would have preceeded it. "Existence preceeds essence", right?
This is basically existentialism. In spite of the massive amount of "yes" votes on this poll, several notable atheists would vote no. Nietzsche would obviously be one, as well as Sartre.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm
PS: Hey there, all. I've been lurking here for years and never really bothered to post. How goes it? I hope this isn't a poor way to stroll onto the scene, sort of...
I just wanted clarification. Your post sounded like that, but it had too many philososphical terms for my pea-brained mind to handle.
i would have to agree to this in its entirety. some of those people scare the shit out of me...THAC0 said:
''i fear eternal damnation, thats why i fallow the principles set down by jesus''. i've heard that before...
and you know what my response was? i actually said this...
''i know its fair and right, thats why i fallow the principles set down by jesus''. and i'm athiest, i'm a heathen sinner athiest and even i know jesus was right about all that kindness and compassion hippy shit.
yeah. i don't download music unless the artist or every member of said band is dead. if they are dead... man stick it to the stupid company that owns their music, they made the music not the company. thats my general rule of thumb...The Shade said:
As has been said, morality is pretty much subjective. What one sees as their own moral code is pretty much based on how they think they should react to people and how people would react to them if they did whatever.
If you feel down when you get scolded for doing whatever, or if you regret hurting someone, that's morality. If you help an old lady cross the street because your scoutmaster said it'll help you get into Heaven, that's religion. Morals and God aren't always in the same boat together, no.
*EDIT*: Okay, maybe my example of religion coincides greatly with what I construe as morality, but I hope you guys get what I'm saying.
If you feel down when you get scolded for doing whatever, or if you regret hurting someone, that's morality. If you help an old lady cross the street because your scoutmaster said it'll help you get into Heaven, that's religion. Morals and God aren't always in the same boat together, no.
*EDIT*: Okay, maybe my example of religion coincides greatly with what I construe as morality, but I hope you guys get what I'm saying.
If only ever hits me with this argument I always say the same thing "Atheists get their morality from human ethics, which is where we believe all religious ethics come from since we believe that "God is a man-made imagination.
So we get our ethics from the same place"
I may also add. . .
So we get our ethics from the same place"
I may also add. . .
I'm Atheist, but it doesn't mean I'm not a good person. Okay, I won't help someone who's dropped their books in the middle of the street, I'm not trying to get to heaven, so they can fix their own problems. Anyway, the Devil has already promised me a flat in hell next to the Grim Reaper's apartment, so I think I know where my loyalties lie.
Seriously, I'm actually a nice guy, and you don't need a god to be a good person.
Seriously, I'm actually a nice guy, and you don't need a god to be a good person.
http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.htmlGormourn said:
Hmm...
Anyway. Morality without God, or a "higher power" becomes relative. Everyone defines their own morals. They then lose any value. Your moral standards will conflict with someone else's. Without a higher authority, neither is "wrong", but neither is "right".
With God, or a higher power, there is a moral absolute as defined by a greater existence and/or creator.
how moral can a person be if his actions are based on a fear of punishment rather then an understanding of human suffering ?
Its' very important to distinguish the difference between the weight that believers and thinkers put on morals. Thinkers see an 'immoral' action to be 'bad' on its own merit, while a believer would consider merely 'offending' someone as 'evil' as it is actually two actions lumped together in their eyes, the action itself and disobeying god, which far outweighs the actual immoral action itself to them. To a believer, giving reasons to be nice to people is either missing the point or 'playing god' and also evil, simply for questioning god.
Understand that at any point in time if some televangelist claimed that 'god talked to him' to them as they always say, but said that god wanted them to throw away their morals, the morals are as good as gone. If you are a believer, ask yourself if you would start killing people if God told you to, but please, in advance, figure out how you would know if it was really God who told you. Believing is a few holy words away from psychosis at any moment, I?ve seen it in action, it really is.
Understand that at any point in time if some televangelist claimed that 'god talked to him' to them as they always say, but said that god wanted them to throw away their morals, the morals are as good as gone. If you are a believer, ask yourself if you would start killing people if God told you to, but please, in advance, figure out how you would know if it was really God who told you. Believing is a few holy words away from psychosis at any moment, I?ve seen it in action, it really is.