Poll: Athens vs. Sparta

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RAMBO22

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Jul 7, 2009
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Personally, I'm going to agree with most people out there and say Sparta. Although you could argue Spartan society was controlled and limited to a point that is ludicrous (no commercial class was allowed to appear in "classical" Sparta and I am referring to "classical" Sparta and Athens in this post obviously). All Spartan men that completed the agoge (Spartan warrior training) were full time warriors and were the only Spartans considered to be Spartan citizens. Wealth was practically non existent in Sparta, when the rest of Greece used currency by 600 B.C. Sparta banned it's use. Yes, Spartan society in many ways was conservative, controlling, and limited to the point of being extreme. But in my opinion, it was also interesting and worthy of envy. Spartan armys were oftentimes outnumbered (such as at the Battle of Thermopylae a.k.a. "300" although that movie isn't extremely historically accurate) but still usually won or inflicted massive damage upon hostile armies. It seems to us now in this day and age that duty and honor were the only virtues taught and valued in Sparta, and this fact both propelled Sparta to greatness and crippled it. The concept of Spartan superiority above all other Hellenes (Greeks) along with the Athenians basically believing the same thing perhaps was the greatest factor in classical Greece never becoming one unified state. Imagine all of the accomplishments of classical Greece, now imagine if Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Corinth, and the other 150 or so Greek city-states could have been one joint nation, the possibilities are incredible
 

War Penguin

Serious Whimsy
Jun 13, 2009
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I admire Athens more. I'm not saying that Sparta shouldn't get respect, but without Athens, where would we be culturally and intellectually?
 

Zacharine

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Apr 17, 2009
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Athens. Because while Sparta may have been a military powerhouse, it was nothing else. There was no longevity to their city-state.
 

The_Healer

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Jun 17, 2009
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I think it's hard to say which is the better city state out of the two, they both had very different goals and ideals.

Sparta was a politically conservative military state who concentrated completely on military issues and ideals rather than looking at political progress. They certainly were the greater people from a military point of view which, in this day and age (unfortunately or not) provokes a lot of admiration.

In the eyes of progress and development, Athens is the far greater state. They developed democracy in a way that had never been seen before and also admired the arts and science. Without Athens there would be a large gap in modern science. For what they wanted to achieve they were far superior to Sparta.

I'm still in two minds about who is actually better...
 

SimuLord

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Aug 20, 2008
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Sparta was certainly a military nation of might, but their conquest (such as it was) of Athens was short-lived because the Spartans were way too dumb to properly administer their defeated foe, which meant that within a generation Athens was back and better than ever. Not only that, but take an ancient history class at even the high-school freshman level and it's Athens that gets the bulk of the column inches in the history books. Sparta lived for the day. Athens will live for eternity.
 

ElephantGuts

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Jul 9, 2008
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Athens. Sparta was admirable for its power and military prowess, but it showed a very primitive, barbaric side of humanity. This opposed to Athens, which was just about the opposite. In the end Athens' intellectual advancements are the ones that proved valuable to the human race.
 
Apr 24, 2009
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I may be getting this wrong (and I'm too lazy to search it up) but didn't Athens have a big-ass Navy? I mean what's the point in having an army of super-soldiers if you can just slag the city with some of your warships? I'm gonna have to go with Athens on this one, regardless that it was the capital for sodomy (aside from Sodom, of course) in the ancient world.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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Well, Athens did have democracy, but it was corrupt and subject to mob rule, because if 51% voted to kill all lets say children, they could do it. So I say Sparta.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Well, they both practised paedophilia, and Sparta was the most slave dependant nation in history ever...

I'm going with Athens, unlike Sparta, they left us something, and we wouldn't even know of Sparta if it wasn't from them. Also, they did do the little thing of creating the basis for democracy today.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Sep 3, 2008
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Athens, since it has provided much of the foundation for western civilization. Far more than spata at any rate.
 

Shock and Awe

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Athens, since it has provided much of the foundation for western civilization. Far more than spata at any rate.
Without Sparta, Greece as a whole would have been taken over by Persia, so without Sparta, Athens wouldent have survived.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Wardog13 said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
Athens, since it has provided much of the foundation for western civilization. Far more than spata at any rate.
Without Sparta, Greece as a whole would have been taken over by Persia, so without Sparta, Athens wouldent have survived.
You'll recall that Athens, not Sparta, were responsible for the victory in the first war against Darius' father Xerxes.
 

PurpleRain

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Dec 2, 2007
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If we're talking war, I wonder how many people realise that Athens defeated Sparta on many occasions.

If we're going politics, Athens again seeing how Sparta had two kings, both tyrants, and little in the way of freedom for most of its people.

Percutio said:
Guess who won.
Athens. I mean, Sparta declined at the end.
 

RAMBO22

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Jul 7, 2009
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Eclectic Dreck said:
Wardog13 said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
Athens, since it has provided much of the foundation for western civilization. Far more than spata at any rate.
Without Sparta, Greece as a whole would have been taken over by Persia, so without Sparta, Athens wouldent have survived.
You'll recall that Athens, not Sparta, were responsible for the victory in the first war against Darius' father Xerxes.
Actually, Xerxes was Darius the Great's son. However, you are right when you say that the Persians were first defeated by Athenians at the Battle of Marathon