Poll: Bans on Circumcision?

[mike1921]

I would say if it weren't so commonplace it would seem a lot like a scar

Well, then, if it is commonplace and isn't viewed as a scar, does the "scar" matter? The only detriment to scars is that people don't like how they look, but I've yet to meet someone who absolutely hates the appearance of a circumcised penis because it's circumcised.

My nerve ending argument wasn't really about the pain. I don't know about you but I'd rather have more nerve endings on there if I'm having sex and would rather not lose those nerves without having any choice in the matter.

I don't think that the foreskin, being mostly just skin, has that many nerves in it - or nerves that do that sort of thing. Also, doesn't it pull back during sex?

You still haven't addressed any of my points about why it's done religiously, and just because it could possibly mean slightly less enjoyable sex is not a good reason to ban it.

I don't care about your religious reasons. You shouldn't be allowed to have surgery done on an infant just because of your religion.

It definitely means less enjoyable sex and any surgery that isn't medically necessary should be banned for children.

And you're an expert in this medical field I presume?....

No? Why is that relevant? I have already cited a source saying that circumcised feel less.

 

[feycreature]

I'm all for removing the ability of parents or anyone to have unnecessary body mods applied to minors, or to anyone who can't give legal consent. Yes, there are people who say they can help you regrow your foreskin. I have yet to see a source I trust vet any of those processes, but I'll accept it as a possibility. Still, barring medical necessity, no you shouldn't get to cut off the bits of your child you don't like.

I have never heard anyone with a foreskin complain that it's too hard to clean (and you'd be surprised how much time I spend talking with guys about penises....life is weird like that), but I have heard complaints about loss of sensation and insufficient natural lubrication without a foreskin. Not enough data for a study, but that's the data I've got.

 

[Madara XIII]

I would say if it weren't so commonplace it would seem a lot like a scar

Well, then, if it is commonplace and isn't viewed as a scar, does the "scar" matter? The only detriment to scars is that people don't like how they look, but I've yet to meet someone who absolutely hates the appearance of a circumcised penis because it's circumcised.

My nerve ending argument wasn't really about the pain. I don't know about you but I'd rather have more nerve endings on there if I'm having sex and would rather not lose those nerves without having any choice in the matter.

I don't think that the foreskin, being mostly just skin, has that many nerves in it - or nerves that do that sort of thing. Also, doesn't it pull back during sex?

You still haven't addressed any of my points about why it's done religiously, and just because it could possibly mean slightly less enjoyable sex is not a good reason to ban it.

I don't care about your religious reasons. You shouldn't be allowed to have surgery done on an infant just because of your religion.

It definitely means less enjoyable sex and any surgery that isn't medically necessary should be banned for children.

And you're an expert in this medical field I presume?....

No? Why is that relevant? I have already cited a source saying that circumcised feel less.

A cited source but is it credible? I ask you and secondly it's not hard to just go out on the internet and find one viewpoint that agrees with you.

I will end it here seeing as how this thread has received more attention that it should.

 

[BlackStar42]

I don't want to get into this argument, but I really don't know where people are getting the idea that an uncut penis is filthy. It takes literally 3 seconds to clean, if you can't be bothered to do that then you don't deserve sex.

 

[fullbleed]

It's not like lossing an arm, it has no impact what so ever on my day to day life, I'm not traumatised by it. Being circumcised surely doesn't make anything harder? I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it besides the social stigmatism now associatted by younger people.

Some people just seem to be opposed children being exposed to any form of pain what so ever. I mean grow up, it's actually better when done at a young age. The child may not have a say in it but it's not like the parents are choosing to remove a vital part of every day to day life.

 

[Justank]

Lots of nerve endings there.

You say this over and over again, yet the article you linked listed a study saying that there wasn't a difference in how much people could feel.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/103/3/686

Under SEXUAL PRACTICE, SENSATION, AND CIRCUMCISION STATUS

 

[mike1921]

I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it

That's your problem. Having it removed decreases penis sensitivity a lot

Some people just seem to be opposed children being exposed to any form of pain what so ever. I mean grow up, it's actually better when done at a young age. The child may not have a say in it but it's not like the parents are choosing to remove a vital part of every day to day life.

....You do realize how much getting your foreskin removed hurts right? You make it sound like getting a booster shot. Also, why get it done at all?

Lots of nerve endings there.

You say this over and over again, yet the article you linked listed a study saying that there wasn't a difference in how much people could feel.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/103/3/686

Under SEXUAL PRACTICE, SENSATION, AND CIRCUMCISION STATUS

Then what about this one http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/abstract

The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

 

[fullbleed]

All I remember about my circumcision from the age of 7 is waking up in the hospital, eating some toast and biscuits, limping to the car, getting a Batmobile, and having black stitches in my winky until they floated away in the bath. Oh, and being excited that I got to move to wearng baggy boxer shorts instead of Y-fronts. I dunno why I was excited but dammit I was young, on morphine, had a Batmobile and a new penis that was getting treated to a new, baggy home. Hell yeah.

Win, I think I had the choice of a Buzz Lightyear or an Optimus Prime. I went with Optimus and I don't regret it.

I don't want to have to say this again but, it's not fucking mutilation! I'm not smashing my hand with a hammer, the body functions perfectly fine without it it's like losing an appendix. Is all surgery mutilation? Having a kidney removed is that mutilation?

 

[Justank]

I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it

That's your problem. Having it removed decreases penis sensitivity a lot

Some people just seem to be opposed children being exposed to any form of pain what so ever. I mean grow up, it's actually better when done at a young age. The child may not have a say in it but it's not like the parents are choosing to remove a vital part of every day to day life.

....You do realize how much getting your foreskin removed hurts right? You make it sound like getting a booster shot. Also, why get it done at all?

Lots of nerve endings there.

You say this over and over again, yet the article you linked listed a study saying that there wasn't a difference in how much people could feel.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/103/3/686

Under SEXUAL PRACTICE, SENSATION, AND CIRCUMCISION STATUS

Then what about this one http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/abstract

The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

So now you've linked two studies that contradict each other. Basically we're down to some people can feel more with their penis and some people can't.

 

[fullbleed]

I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it

That's your problem. Having it removed decreases penis sensitivity a lot

It hasn't left my penis fucking dead, there is still plenty of sensation I can tell you. Decreased sensation yes but by how much? I can still feel with it, it's not been reduced to a useless lump of flesh. All of the claims about reduced sensation seem to be vastly over exagerated.

 

[mike1921]

I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it

That's your problem. Having it removed decreases penis sensitivity a lot

It hasn't left my penis fucking dead, there is still plenty of sensation I can tell you. Decreased sensation yes but by how much? I can still feel with it, it's not been reduced to a useless lump of flesh. All of the claims about reduced sensation seem to be vastly over exagerated.

So? Just because it could be worse doesn't mean your parents should have the right to force the choice of it onto you when you're an infant when it obviously has negative consequences and not extremely significant benefits.

 

[Justank]

I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it

That's your problem. Having it removed decreases penis sensitivity a lot

It hasn't left my penis fucking dead, there is still plenty of sensation I can tell you. Decreased sensation yes but by how much? I can still feel with it, it's not been reduced to a useless lump of flesh. All of the claims about reduced sensation seem to be vastly over exagerated.

So? Just because it could be worse doesn't mean your parents should have the right to force the choice of it onto you when you're an infant when it obviously has negative consequences.

It doesn't obviously have any consequences. Both sides have cited studies now showing that it does and it doesn't, and people who are uncircumcised and circumcised are quite happy with their state. I didn't have a choice, and I'm glad I didn't. I love my penis just the way it is, and I'm glad it was done when I was a baby so I didn't have to have any memory of it.

 

[fullbleed]

You know what I don't care, I wouldn't mind if it was or wasn't circumcised. It seems to be a mostly cosmetic difference and personally I think it looks better without a foreskin. I didn't have a choice, it had to be done for medical reasons as a child because it was too tight. Do I hate my parents for it, has it left me a bitter scared shell of a man? No, and I got an Optimus Prime toy.

 

[Koroviev]

(This post is protected against appeals to tradition. Don't even try.)

I wish it would be possible to call out fallacies in advance and no one would use them.

Even if we could only do one I'd start each post with No Straw Men and most of the partisan bullshit flinging would end.

Except if it involves a group of extremists and/or criminals then I'd start out with No No True Scotsman

inorite? Wishful thinking .__.

 

[mike1921]

I mean I seriously don't know any negative sides to it

That's your problem. Having it removed decreases penis sensitivity a lot

It hasn't left my penis fucking dead, there is still plenty of sensation I can tell you. Decreased sensation yes but by how much? I can still feel with it, it's not been reduced to a useless lump of flesh. All of the claims about reduced sensation seem to be vastly over exagerated.

So? Just because it could be worse doesn't mean your parents should have the right to force the choice of it onto you when you're an infant when it obviously has negative consequences.

It doesn't obviously have any consequences. Both sides have cited studies now showing that it does and it doesn't, and people who are uncircumcised and circumcised are quite happy with their state. I didn't have a choice, and I'm glad I didn't. I love my penis just the way it is, and I'm glad it was done when I was a baby so I didn't have to have any memory of it.

I'm not happy with my state of being circumcised. Also, just because you're better off never having made the choice doesn't mean that everyone else is.

 

[Justank]

I'm not happy with my state of being circumcised. Also, just because you're better off never having made the choice doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Out of curiosity, why are you unhappy about it?

 

[tkioz]

To Ban something is to say that its wrong, many cultures have it as a symbolic thing, are these places saying that this part of their culture is wrong, and is it medically dangerous?

As a general rule... Hell Yes... I can and do say that some cultures are just plain wrong when it comes to some of their practices, I know it's not PC to say, but damn, some cultures do some shit that is just plain disgusting.

Stoning for example. If you really must put someone to death, at least do it quickly and cleanly, stoning is one of the worst ways to die.

Female circumcision is another grossly wrong "cultural" tradition.

How about foot binding? Neck lengthing? Skull binding?

So yes, some cultures have practices that are just plain freaking sick, and I will make that moral judgement.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Do I hate my parents for it, has it left me a bitter scared shell of a man? No, and I got an Optimus Prime toy.

I wasn't bitter and scarred (well, not emotionally) until I realise how many of you got cool toys. I probably got a toy but not a cool toy because I was 2 and it was 1975... You know how many cool toys for 2 year olds existed in 1975? None.

Hmmm... You think 35 years later is a bit too long to demand a cool toy for being circumcised?

 

[mike1921]

I'm not happy with my state of being circumcised. Also, just because you're better off never having made the choice doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Out of curiosity, why are you unhappy about it?

Sensitivity decrease. Which at the very least we can agree has some evidence for happening.

 

[Justank]

I'm not happy with my state of being circumcised. Also, just because you're better off never having made the choice doesn't mean that everyone else is.

Out of curiosity, why are you unhappy about it?

Sensitivity decrease. Which at the very least we can agree has some evidence for happening.

I can agree that it is certainly possible, but it's definitely not guaranteed. Perhaps my penis is desensitized and I just don't know, but to be frank I find I have a great deal of sensitivity down there and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.