Poll: Battlestar ending - what do you think?

[matrix3509]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the TOS was built upon religion just as much as the new series.

Huh? What are you talking about? There are two - count them, two - episodes that really went into the religious thing (beyond the level that Stargate did, anyway). One was a pretty bad episode of TOS - the Roman planet - and the other a much, much dumber episode of Voyager.

If any series depends on religion, it is BSG. The original story had to do with "Adam" and his "arc".

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light

TOS had its own share of unexplainable crap. In fact it seems to me the Starbuck in the recent series is a direct homage to the Beings of Light.

It don't really get why people let one single aspect ruin an entire series for them. Star Wars had the Force. Star Trek had the Q's as you already said. Its like disliking soap operas because of the drama, or disliking Superman comics because of the superpowers parts. If you can't get past something that is a staple of the genre, are you sure you have any business in the genre anyway?

 

[Elim Garak]

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light

TOS had its own share of unexplainable crap. In fact it seems to me the Starbuck in the recent series is a direct homage to the Beings of Light.

It don't really get why people let one single aspect ruin an entire series for them. Star Wars had the Force. Star Trek had the Q's as you already said. Its like disliking soap operas because of the drama, or disliking Superman comics because of the superpowers parts. If you can't get past something that is a staple of the genre, are you sure you have any business in the genre anyway?

For me it wasn't one thing. It was the final straw. There are a bunch of other things. Like the way they treated Baltar - the character I identified with - and played by probably the best actor on the show. The dumb emotional decisions the humans made left and right. The dumb emotional decisions the cylons made left and right. Hell, even the way whole Luddite thing they have going with the inability to use computers and automatic targeting systems. No way can a human keep up with a machine in terms of combat capabilities - machines are faster, better, stronger.

 

[matrix3509]

The ending made me mad... if i was a captain in the fleet i would've been like "No I don't want my spaceship launched into the sun fuck you Adama".

The Battle was cool ,but the show didn't need the ending technology is evil rant

You say that, but I doubt you would feel the same way if you had just spent the last 5-6 years couped up in a dilapidated space ship with no hope of survival. As Adama said, "Don't underestimate people's desire for a clean slate."

LOL, true, but I don't see everybody agreeing with the decision. They didn't have to carry even a single guy out of his or her ship? Remember how much Adama loved Galactica - he loved the ship itself. Why didn't anybody else form similar attachments?

I think that if Galactica was still space worthy Adama would not have suggested that they just go off into the wilderness.

There is a fundamental difference between Adama and your regular civilian. Galactica was his post for many years, and the same for Tigh. Adama's first post was also Galactica around the end of the first Cylon War. There was a sense of nostalgia for him from the beginning. Since the ship is a military ship, it is different for the military than it is for the regular populace. There is a stary arc greatly similar to this in Season 2. You would understand it better had you watched the whole thing. Its the same thing when Navy sailors form attachments to their Aircraft Carriers or Battleships. For a while, it's home. The difference was that civilians effectively had no chioce but to live out the rest of their lives on a cramped spaceship, or die. The military chose to be there, the civilians didn't.

 

[Elim Garak]

There is a fundamental difference between Adama and your regular civilian. Galactica was his post for many years, and the same for Tigh. Adama's first post was also Galactica around the end of the first Cylon War. There was a sense of nostalgia for him from the beginning. Since the ship is a military ship, it is different for the military than it is for the regular populace. There is a stary arc greatly similar to this in Season 2. You would understand it better had you watched the whole thing. Its the same thing when Navy sailors form attachments to their Aircraft Carriers or Battleships. For a while, it's home. The difference was that civilians effectively had no chioce but to live out the rest of their lives on a cramped spaceship, or die. The military chose to be there, the civilians didn't.

Meh, minor point. There are a ton of reasons to stay in space or to keep the technology. Doesn't take away the fact that the decision was really silly/dumb used to shoehorn the people onto our Earth in the ancient times.

 

[matrix3509]

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light

TOS had its own share of unexplainable crap. In fact it seems to me the Starbuck in the recent series is a direct homage to the Beings of Light.

It don't really get why people let one single aspect ruin an entire series for them. Star Wars had the Force. Star Trek had the Q's as you already said. Its like disliking soap operas because of the drama, or disliking Superman comics because of the superpowers parts. If you can't get past something that is a staple of the genre, are you sure you have any business in the genre anyway?

For me it wasn't one thing. It was the final straw. There are a bunch of other things. Like the way they treated Baltar - the character I identified with - and played by probably the best actor on the show. The dumb emotional decisions the humans made left and right. The dumb emotional decisions the cylons made left and right. Hell, even the way whole Luddite thing they have going with the inability to use computers and automatic targeting systems. No way can a human keep up with a machine in terms of combat capabilities - machines are faster, better, stronger.

So human beings, an inherently emotional animal, on the brink of apocolypse on top of that, turned you off?

Only the skinjobs were acting emotionally. But that was only when their resurrection was taken away. Machines for the most part, do not have a self-preservation instinct. You suddendly give them a scenario where they suddenly have to start worrying about it, they will act strangely.

As for the thing about not using targeting systems, they was pretty much explained in the first episode. They couldn't have too many automated systems all networked together because the cylons could hack things really easily (targeting systems most easily) and turn them against the humans. In fact that was why Galactica was the only surviving Battlestar, and why the holocaust was so successful. Its pretty easy to understand really, the less number of systems a hacker has access to, the less damage said hacker can do. I don't really get this complaint anyway. The vipers used regular old conventional projectiles anyway. Missles were rarely used, and when they were they were used at as close a range as possible.

As for combat capabilities, have you ever played an FPS in your life? Programming AI is hard. The programming in the raiders and centurions was especially rudimentary, they were (as stated explicitly in the show) little more than beasts when compared to the skinjobs. Machines might be stronger and faster than humans, but are they smarter? Certainly not, especially when programmed with a basic hive mind like the raiders were.

 

[matrix3509]

There is a fundamental difference between Adama and your regular civilian. Galactica was his post for many years, and the same for Tigh. Adama's first post was also Galactica around the end of the first Cylon War. There was a sense of nostalgia for him from the beginning. Since the ship is a military ship, it is different for the military than it is for the regular populace. There is a stary arc greatly similar to this in Season 2. You would understand it better had you watched the whole thing. Its the same thing when Navy sailors form attachments to their Aircraft Carriers or Battleships. For a while, it's home. The difference was that civilians effectively had no chioce but to live out the rest of their lives on a cramped spaceship, or die. The military chose to be there, the civilians didn't.

Meh, minor point. There are a ton of reasons to stay in space or to keep the technology. Doesn't take away the fact that the decision was really silly/dumb used to shoehorn the people onto our Earth in the ancient times.

So you take a completely valid reason like "people are sick of being cooped up," and you reduce it to that? Your points are becoming less valid as you post.

It seems to me that you came into the series with the decision to hate it no matter what, and that excludes you from having a pertinent opinion whatsoever.

 

[Antidamacus]

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light

TOS had its own share of unexplainable crap. In fact it seems to me the Starbuck in the recent series is a direct homage to the Beings of Light.

It don't really get why people let one single aspect ruin an entire series for them. Star Wars had the Force. Star Trek had the Q's as you already said. Its like disliking soap operas because of the drama, or disliking Superman comics because of the superpowers parts. If you can't get past something that is a staple of the genre, are you sure you have any business in the genre anyway?

For me it wasn't one thing. It was the final straw. There are a bunch of other things. Like the way they treated Baltar - the character I identified with - and played by probably the best actor on the show. The dumb emotional decisions the humans made left and right. The dumb emotional decisions the cylons made left and right. Hell, even the way whole Luddite thing they have going with the inability to use computers and automatic targeting systems. No way can a human keep up with a machine in terms of combat capabilities - machines are faster, better, stronger.

I figured that's what it was but you just basically explained it.

They made emotional decisions. Baltar was a scientist and then got all preachy and you though "I'm not preachy"

A show where everyone made cold hard logical choices would be incredibly boring. That's why they never put too many Vulcans together in the shows.

 

[Elim Garak]

So you take a completely valid reason like "people are sick of being cooped up," and you reduce it to that? Your points are becoming less valid as you post.

LOL.

1. This is only one of the many reasons why I am annoyed.
2. Cooped up is one thing. Deciding that your children should not live past the age of 40 is another.
3. While intellectually I can understand mass insanity and lack of rationality after 4 years in such conditions, I don't feel those reasons. They are too contrary to my nature. So would trying to portray schizophrenia and expecting me to like it / be drawn into it.
4. My only explanation for their actions is mass hysteria. Which I do not find to be a satisfying conclusion to any story. At least in Blake's 7 ending most of the people were sane, even though they all died.

It seems to me that you came into the series with the decision to hate it no matter what, and that excludes you from having a pertinent opinion whatsoever.

Nope. I was really excited when I saw the show in the beginning, four years ago. Likewise, I was quite hopeful that they put all that crap behind them when I came back to it a month ago. My original plan was to go back and watch the middle if the authors made the show more sane. They didn't - quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Antidamacus]

1. This is only one of the many reasons why I am annoyed.
2. Cooped up is one thing. Deciding that your children should not live past the age of 40 is another.
3. While intellectually I can understand mass insanity and lack of rationality after 4 years in such conditions, I don't feel those reasons. They are too contrary to my nature. So would trying to portray schizophrenia and expecting me to like it / be drawn into it.
4. My only explanation for their actions is mass hysteria. Which I do not find to be a satisfying conclusion to any story. At least in Blake's 7 ending most of the people were sane, even though they all died.

Why wouldn't they live past 40?

 

[DarkCntry]

The ending was pretty fitting for the entire show...however I think there was just one too many "ride off into the sunset" moments.

The 150k years later bit was also a bit campy, albeit I was expecting it and knew it was going to happen from the pilot episode.

 

[Elim Garak]

Why wouldn't they live past 40?

No medicine, basic hunter-gatherer society, bad diet, etc.

 

[Jimmyjames]

Suffice it to say that I am glad I missed most of the first season, second season, third season, and most of the fourth. I won't spoil it if you guys like that sort of thing.

If you missed all that, how can you POSSIBLY form an opinion of a show, by your own admission here, know NOTHING about?

 

[Antidamacus]

Why wouldn't they live past 40?

No medicine, basic hunter-gatherer society, bad diet, etc.

They're not stupid. I would assume the people with medical training would still have it. So I doubt brain surgery but I don't think there is anything to stop them from getting other medicines?

Also they're going to cook food and eat right. People live hunter/gatherer all the time, but they're smart enough to know what to do with it.

I just don't think that leaving the ships will turn them all into monkeymen.

 

[Elim Garak]

If you missed all that, how can you POSSIBLY form an opinion of a show, by your own admission here, know NOTHING about?

LOL - I hated the beginning and the end, and that made me want to NOT watch the middle.

That's my opinion - that those parts were dumb. From what I gathered about the middle, it was also dumb. The plan was dumb, the characters were dumb, the deus ex machina were REALLY dumb. The cylons were dumb and the humans were completely retarded. The final 5 were dumb. The skinjobs were dumb.

The only ones that looked remotely sane were the tin cans. And even that only because they didn't speak - there was that whole monotheistic subplot with them. Can you guess whether I am going to watch Caprica? :-D

Maybe "The Plan" will explain something about the plan. Maybe. We shall see.

 

[Elim Garak]

They're not stupid. I would assume the people with medical training would still have it. So I doubt brain surgery but I don't think there is anything to stop them from getting other medicines?

You mean besides lack of knowledge of biochemistry, local flora, diseases, not to mention even basic medical equipment?

Also they're going to cook food and eat right. People live hunter/gatherer all the time, but they're smart enough to know what to do with it.

I just don't think that leaving the ships will turn them all into monkeymen.

No, we kind-of know how it turned out. They split up into small, tiny groups. Most of which would not have had anybody with medical knowledge. Within a generation or two they would have forgotten almost everything. At best their children may have been OK. Grandchildren? Not a chance.

 

[Antidamacus]

They're "people", even the skinjobs. That's the POINT.

I wanted to watch a show where people (and robots) made tough decisions that weren't always right. Not everyone made rational decisions.

Why would I watch a show where everyone made sane rational decisions all the time? What would the conflict be?

Everyone is flawed, even the 'perfect' machines.

 

[matrix3509]

If you missed all that, how can you POSSIBLY form an opinion of a show, by your own admission here, know NOTHING about?

LOL - I hated the beginning and the end, and that made me want to NOT watch the middle.

That's my opinion - that those parts were dumb. From what I gathered about the middle, it was also dumb. The plan was dumb, the characters were dumb, the deus ex machina were REALLY dumb. The cylons were dumb and the humans were completely retarded. The final 5 were dumb. The skinjobs were dumb.

The only ones that looked remotely sane were the tin cans. And even that only because they didn't speak - there was that whole monotheistic subplot with them. Can you guess whether I am going to watch Caprica? :-D

Maybe "The Plan" will explain something about the plan. Maybe. We shall see.

In case you missed the entire genre, deux ex machina is a staple of the genre, in fact, its part of the appeal. If you can't get past that I would recommend that you never watch anything relating to science fiction ever again.

You apparently live in some kind of alternate dimension where complete predictability is a virtue rather than something to be crucified for. Demanding a story (and by extension the characters) be completely understandable 100% of the time is not only ludicrous in the extreme, but its also completely unrealistic. You might as well complain that real life isn't completely predictable.

The characters and things you called dumb, other people (including myself) call meaningful and/or flawed.

 

[matrix3509]

They're not stupid. I would assume the people with medical training would still have it. So I doubt brain surgery but I don't think there is anything to stop them from getting other medicines?

You mean besides lack of knowledge of biochemistry, local flora, diseases, not to mention even basic medical equipment?

Also they're going to cook food and eat right. People live hunter/gatherer all the time, but they're smart enough to know what to do with it.

I just don't think that leaving the ships will turn them all into monkeymen.

No, we kind-of know how it turned out. They split up into small, tiny groups. Most of which would not have had anybody with medical knowledge. Within a generation or two they would have forgotten almost everything. At best their children may have been OK. Grandchildren? Not a chance.

You seem to think that nobody passes on their knowledge to latter generations and that the humans are doomed to extinction. Even the most advanced of technologies can be built with only the most rudimentary of equipment. Your arguments are now getting pretty petty and pointless. Nitpicking the show into extinction does not make your points any more valid.

 

[Antidamacus]

You mean besides lack of knowledge of biochemistry, local flora, diseases, not to mention even basic medical equipment?

Flora I get, but why wouldn't they know these other things? And how do you know what they took in the bags?

They didn't ditch everything, they were wearing clothes.

No, we kind-of know how it turned out. They split up into small, tiny groups. Most of which would not have had anybody with medical knowledge. Within a generation or two they would have forgotten almost everything. At best their children may have been OK. Grandchildren? Not a chance.

As brain surgeons? Nobel Prize winning physicists? Absolutely.

Farmers? Bakers? Engineers?

They aren't going to make spaceships but they aren't going to be throwing their poo at each other in 30 years either.

But you bring up a point. If they bring their intergalactic spaceships and all their fancy do dads with them, are you implying it would last forever? Even with the actual things there, wouldn't they eventually forget it?

If you don't trust these people to teach their grandkids anything, what good is having the objects there? They aren't going to know what to do with it.

 

[Elim Garak]

They're "people", even the skinjobs. That's the POINT.

I wanted to watch a show where people (and robots) made tough decisions that weren't always right. Not everyone made rational decisions.

Why would I watch a show where everyone made sane rational decisions all the time? What would the conflict be?

Depends on the mistakes made. There are also misunderstandings. There are people that are just bad or evil or selfish. My problem is not the bad things that they did - it is the dumb and emotional things. Cut off your nose to spite your face type of thing.

Everyone is flawed, even the 'perfect' machines.

Yea, because the final 5 were dumb. Data was perfect. Spock was perfect. Hell, even Worf and Janeway were geniuses compared to these retards. 99% of the time they made rational decisions, no matter what their emotions told them. Basically, what I am saying is that they weren't ruled by the emotions.

For a less ideal example, everyone on Blake's 7 was rational (well, most of the time - and it has been a while). They had different priorities, different ideas about how to do things, but they were rational.