Poll: BBC News Article: Sexual harrasment in video games

[Palmerama]

It is worse for women gamers! Pure & simple! Me & my housemate play Gears of War together and she gets far more abuse than me! We're on a private chat & ill only get an occasional PM saying that I was cheating or that im shit etc. etc. Her on the other hand gets a torrent of sexist abuse saying she must be fat to be that good at the game, and gets a number of friend requests not to mention asked a number of times to describe her breasts. She gives as good as she gets as do I but that doesn't stop from being tedious and annoying!

People are saying how not using the mute button is lazy but muting them & ignoring them isnt going to make the problem go away! That's just as lazy!

 

[Vrex360]

Wow, I can't believe how many people try to use the argument 'guys say the same thing to each other so therefore it's okay' to justify shit like this. Partly because aggressive harrassment is just wrong, regardless of gender but mostly because no, they don't do the same thing!

I was on Xbox Live for over a year playing games like Halo: Reach, I met some jerks in that time but one thing that I never got was an inbox full of messages like this:

Spoiler

In fact go read 'Fat ugly or Slutty' sometime, the rate at which they can find more examples like this tells me that this is a near constant thing. I'll post the link: http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

But first just think for a second, would you really expect to see men aggressively spamming each others inboxes with demands to fuck each other in the arse? Somehow I don't think so, I find this to be a very gendered kind of way to 'trash talk'. With awful harrassment like this in message boards, online voice chatter and messages spamming their inboxes is it any wonder why women feel turned off?

I hate the argument 'just use a mute button' because if this kind of stuff can happen on an almost daily basis without end, messages, insults during online play etc all help create the illusion of a really unwelcoming environment. Imagine getting messages like this almost every single time you log on, that's the reality that quite a few women and gay men have had to deal with ever since they got into online gaming. The fact that this is constant means that muting individuals does nothing, because it paints an image of the community as a whole.

Muting is only a bandaid, if you actually want to heal the wound on gaming that is harrassment, you need to work a lot harder than just saying 'hey hit the mute button and ignore it lolz'. Muting and blocking only allows us to ignore the problem but the fact that FUOS has not run out of material after over a year of being active tells me that the problem doesn't go away by ignoring it. And people who have recieved the occassional bit of trash talking thinking thst it's in any way close to the endless repetative and frankly vile stuff some other people get over Xbox live telling people to 'get over it' is just insulting.

Also I love the way some people in this thread have essentially dismissed the issue of sexism towards women by telling the women upset about it to 'grow a pair'... not helping your case guys. Really not.

I hate hearing the argument that sexual harrassment is part of gaming's culture or that it's what makes us who we are. That people should just learn to mute it and deal with it and move on, that by complaining they are weak and uncool and worthless. No I'm sorry but any community that would pride itself on being exlusionary, bigoted or aggressive in any way is a community that has absolutely no right to be defended or exist.

Hence I still stand by EC's stance on this, the auto mute features and such. Find a way to effectively crack down on these shits and tell them, and in the process the world, that video games are for everyone. Not for the amusement of angry self righteous emotionally insecure young men but for everyone to enjoy and if they can't handle that they have no place in our community. Free Speech does not defend sexual harrassment and neither should gamers.

 

[skywolfblue]

Men give each other shit in a similar fashion all the time, you just can't take it to heart.

People shouldn't be giving each other that kind of shit period. It doesn't matter if they're male, female, black or white, unacceptable behavior should not be tolerated.

Often however the behaviour is not only tolerated, but part of normal social interaction, guys often mock and insult each other often as a sign of competitive comradely. I have online friends who I mock constantly and personally, most of whom give as good as they get. In fact i spend upwards of 10 hours a week on Skype with a friend who frequently tells me he cant hear me because my mouth is full of penis.

It's fine enough if:

1) It's among friends who know you
2) They know that it's all in good fun
3) You don't take it too far

But doing that to people who don't know you is harmful and unacceptable behavior.

Quite frankly the quantity of people who are actually malicious are so small that you just need to grow up and learn to work the mute button as opposed to crying to the behaviour police.

So small? Virtually every girl I know has been stalked / harassed harmfully (to some degree) over the internet at least once. It's hardly a few minor incidents.

 

[BLAHwhatever]

I think the threats to my life or to be raped are pretty balanced out.
BBC NEWS REPORT: Gamers on Multiplayer games talk bullshit when they're angry
More at eleven

We need someone like batman, that tracks smacktalkers down, smashes their consoles/computers and hangs them from their ceilings by their feet.
Anyone up for the challenge? I know there must be some eccentric millionaire on this forum with too much time to rise up to it!

 

[El Dwarfio]

There is a difference between harassment and telling a sexist joke to your friend.

Harassing a stranger because she is female is totally unacceptable.
Telling a girl who is your friend to make you a sandwhich isn't (so long as you're prepared for the consequences )

I think the issue definitely needs to be addressed, but it does run the risk of being another case of political correctness gone mad.

That said I've never encountered it myself, guess it's cos I'm a PC gamer

Quite frankly the quantity of people who are actually malicious are so small that you just need to grow up and learn to work the mute button as opposed to crying to the behaviour police.

So small? Virtually every girl I know has been stalked / harassed harmfully (to some degree) over the internet at least once. It's hardly a few minor incidents.

Wait wtf? you must hang out in a bad crowd / in a bad area (or maybe these girls just like giving their personal details to strangers?). I've known a lot of girls in my time, only two of whom had been stalked and neither of whom had their stalkers relate to the internet in any which way.

It's hardly a fucking global epidemic.

 

[TheLizardKing]

How is anonymous trash talking sexual harassment? Christ, grow the fuck up.

Good call, Jensen.

 

[Omgsarge]

Good to see that the majority here on the Escapist agrees that something has to be done about the general online landscape (meaning treatment to both genders here). However, I find it frustrating how many people here come along with the "just mute" excuse. It's a lazy advice that doesn't solve anything, considering that women get much MUCH more shit than your average male gamer. You really want to spend a good portion of your game-time muting or ignoring random loud teenagers who take pleasure in insulting random people in an online environment? Again, Extra Credits impressed me with their take on the issue and I hope that some good comes from their ideas.

That said I think nobody here would conciously consider himself a sexist. I think most people who use terms like "rape" or other sexually charged japps when playing the game have nothing against women. However, both genders, more often than not, have different meanings associated to these terms which can lead to arguments and hurt feelings (to put it very mildly). The more female gamers take up the controller, the more frequent these arguments and conflicts are going to get. Its unavoidable. I just hope that both sides don't entrench themselves with blanked and useless statements like "white knight", "anti-feminist" and "grow a pair"(oh, the irony) and learn play the freaking game together.

 

[AngloDoom]

Sticks and Stone may break your bones but words will never harm you. If girl gamers are parading themselves in game lobbies and say "i'm a girl gamer, don't treat me differently" in my mind they kinda have it coming. I realise this isn't the case for all girl gamers and in which case they can probably mute the other players in the lobby (it would kinda suck to play team based games though :/)

The problem being that this encourages a lot of women playing games to hide their sex. While what sexual organs they have is ultimately irrelevant, the difference is a guy can be called "coolguy87" and not get shit, but if a girl is called "coolgirl87" she gets an inbox full of propositions or sexist jokes.

As I said in a previous post, I once used a username that was more sexually ambiguous and within a few hours of playing I had a shite-load of "show your tits! jk jk jk" messages and being told I was clearly an ugly geeky virgin who couldn't get a boyfriend so I went online so I could feel special to nerds.

Despite having played online reasonably often at one point in time, I'd say I generally got ignored and when I was being insulted it was as a result of doing something to annoy someone - however irrational it may be - such as killing them several times in a row or defending a point well.

From my experience, girls get shit by default.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

There will always be abusive dicks in this world, especially when given the chance to be anonymous. Is enough being done to stop them? Yes, it's called the mute button. Whilst I have every sympathy with someone who receives an abusive message online, I have no sympathy with people who do not immediately block communications after the first message.

Alternatively trash-talk back. It's funnier.

 

[lapan]

I love it how it seems to be forbidden to point out a problem *looks at this thread*.

Yup, the people who behave like normal beings should be the one who do the extra work to enjoy their hobby, not the asshats who ruin it.

I remember this fighter webseries thing back then when people defended sexism and racism as an essential part of their community. And now this goes pretty much the same way. This is why I don't see myself as part of this pitifull "community" (aka Gamers).

The problem is that it's not relly possible to moderate all voice chat on all game servers at all time, so it pretty much has to be moderated by the players/server admins themselves.

 

[boag]

Of course, they're everywhere, so "go somewhere else" is kind of a poor solution. And I like how the answer to a detrimental cultural attitude comes down to "just ignore it."

Which is why you say to leave. That's totally cleaning things up. And since the option to kick and ban are all-powerful (except they're not)....

i think you might have quoted someone else

 

[BRex21]

Men give each other shit in a similar fashion all the time, you just can't take it to heart.

People shouldn't be giving each other that kind of shit period. It doesn't matter if they're male, female, black or white, unacceptable behavior should not be tolerated.

Often however the behaviour is not only tolerated, but part of normal social interaction, guys often mock and insult each other often as a sign of competitive comradely. I have online friends who I mock constantly and personally, most of whom give as good as they get. In fact i spend upwards of 10 hours a week on Skype with a friend who frequently tells me he cant hear me because my mouth is full of penis.

It's fine enough if:

1) It's among friends who know you
2) They know that it's all in good fun
3) You don't take it too far

But doing that to people who don't know you is harmful and unacceptable behavior.

Plenty of people I don't know join in and I taunt plenty who I don't, quite frankly the better you are at this banter the more likely you are to get onto my "friends" list.

Quite frankly the quantity of people who are actually malicious are so small that you just need to grow up and learn to work the mute button as opposed to crying to the behaviour police.

So small? Virtually every girl I know has been stalked / harassed harmfully (to some degree) over the internet at least once. It's hardly a few minor incidents.

Yes, they probably are, but did you stop to think of perhaps a percent of people who harass/stalk is limited or did you just assume that since everyone can find one that they clearly must be everywhere. Its the internet, you will find problem people.
The rare instance that you find a problem person here is what you do:
Pull up your big girl pants
Click the "Mute" option
End of story

 

[Brad Calkins]

I had never realised it was so bad, although, I have only once played a match with a female player online and she recieved no hate. She was REALLY shit though. Loads of my female friends play games and they've never mentioned it.

I mean, I knew it happened, but they have to be exaggerating.

It's not, I play female characters all the time and I've only seen it once, as usual the media's just making a big deal of something that barely exists.

 

[Idocreating]

Also, they must not infringe Freedom of Speech. The ability to broadcast stupid shit is the same thing that allows me to not go to jail for broadcasting what I think.

Online games a private forums and networks. Freedom of Speech does NOT apply to them.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Men give each other shit in a similar fashion all the time, you just can't take it to heart. Considering all the equal rights things that have gone on in recent history, this was inevitable.

Kitchen jokes are on par with poofter jokes towards heterosexual men. Just give it back and keep going. I think if Women are going to be precious over things like this, its only going to hurt their standing in society.

This! It is a joke that has only been expanded to this level (in modern day society at least) because women take it too seriously. Imagine if there was a campaign to get rid of "I shagged your mum" jokes, it would be laughable.

 

[Fishyash]

In my limited time on xbox live, I have rarely had people talk trash to me. There are very few girls on xbl.

However I can only imagine it's common for a girl to experience something like this regularly, which is awful. I wouldn't want to play any games online if I was experiencing that, especially since I always want to communicate with people.

It's so sad that it often goes beyond the mic. You can't just wall this off unless you avoid going on XBL entirely or just be silent.

 

[Vrex360]

This! It is a joke that has only been expanded to this level (in modern day society at least) because women take it too seriously. Imagine if there was a campaign to get rid of "I shagged your mum" jokes, it would be laughable.

Men give each other shit in a similar fashion all the time, you just can't take it to heart. Considering all the equal rights things that have gone on in recent history, this was inevitable.

Please read my post above (the one with the spoiler tag, open it). I have found some examples, and many more that are even worse all curtosy of Fat Ugly or Slutty. I can tell you right now that the argument 'men say the same thing to each other' does the opposite of hold water. It's flawed because:
A. Harrassment it bad, no matter what.
B. Harrassment women tend to get is so much more graphic, vile and unpleasant than what men (usually) deal with. Also given how often FUOS is able to find more material, I'd say it's pretty frequent to.

All I'm saying is that, as a man, back in the old days of Xbox Live I never found this in my inbox:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

'Men do the same thing to each other so women have to deal with it.'

[HEADING=1]NO THEY DO NOT![/HEADING]
And
[HEADING=1]NO THEY SHOULD NOT![/HEADING]

These are incredibly gross unpleasant and most importantly gendered insults. I can't exactly picture very many men would get messages like this spammed at them. I know that in my few years of Xbox Live before my Xbox got stolen I never recieved anything nearly at disgusting as this. And let me tell you, I always managed to piss people off in some way, never once got anything like this.

These bombard inboxes and online games constantly, saying 'mute them' doesn't make the problem go away when you realize that for every one that gets muted there are still ten times more on the way ready to spam the inbox. Even if they only ever get one message out, it can still be hurtful and uncomfortable to people.
Heracles did not get anywhere in his quest to slay the Hydra by just continuing to cut off heads assuming eventually the problem would go away. Eventually he realized he needed to burn it at the source.

Now I'm not trying to white knight here, I know there are plenty of girl gamers who don't recieve this or who aren't bothered by it or even mock it. But the existence of some that aren't bothered by it doesn't mean that other women plain aren't allowed to be bothered by it. When messages like that can happen so frequently with so little effort done to stop them and more negative response given to people complaining about them/trying to solve them is it any wonder why a lot of women, gay men and ethnic groups tend to get turned off Xbox Live?

To me that's just awful. Video games are for the enjoyment of everyone, they shouldn't be tailor made for the benefit of unpleasant emotionally insecure young men. We shouldn't be using stupid arguments or calling women and gay men out for 'bringing it on themselves' by having the nerve to want to play games while letting their identity as people be known. We shouldn't be using lame arse excuses like 'errhrhr mute them' or 'men do the same thing to men' instead of actually addressing the issue and the longer we do that, the worse it gets.

Hence why I support EC's suggestions (like I said in my above post). Things like Auto muting and not being able to exchange messages unless friended (under specific circumstances obviously) will help clean up the community. Not just for things like harrassment but trash talk as well because frankly there shouldn't be any level of dickheadery in online games, no matter how severe.

Hence why I'm grateful that Microsoft seems to want their help implementing something like this. Maybe we'll actually start to see real results for a change. All I know is that video games and the act of playing them socially should be something fun for everyone, that's how a community should be. It's not even really about women's rights or gay rights or the rights of ethnic/religious groups that bothers me, it's the prevelance of this aggressive exclusionary attitude where awful things like this can happen and then get instantly dismissed shortly afterwards by a community who would rather rag on the people offended by it then the perpetrators.

Every community of entertainment should be welcoming and accepting to everyone and if any community feels like messages like the above are 'essential to the culture' or that the act of cleaning up the community to make it more accomodating to everyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or religion is somehow 'beneath them' then as far as I am concerned it's a community not worth existing, much less defending.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

After reading the article, I'm disappointed by its flagrant bias and frequent conjecture. It read more like the moderately better constructed rant of a forum goer, than an informed and informing report on the state of affairs. I am also curious as to why the article chose to totally ignore the role of some women as the aggressors of sexism and sexist behavior. One could argue it had no place in the subject, but to me that would be ignoring the match in favor of the fire.

Self-confirming and largely unhelpful.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

This nonsense isn't sexual harassment, it's acne ridden teens losing and raging in a video game and smack talking. To use this as an example of "sexual harassment in society" or attitudes toward gender, gender-roles or any of that is a waste of time.

To equate smack talk to actual sexual harassment is short sighted, pathetic and actually detrimental to fighting against actual sexual harassment.