Poll: Best Cinema Director of the last 50 years

funguy2121

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RT said:
funguy2121 said:
RT said:
George Lucas, lol.

But if we're being serious, I'd say Francis Ford Coppola.
Where the hell is Nolan?
In the parallel world where The Dark Knight didn't suck.
I schmell a schmoll. These are always people who don't qualify as why, which is further evidence that they're only posting to irk people. If someone were to present some interesting reasons why they didn't like The Dark Knight, or Inception, I'd love to hear it, as especially with the former it seems that 90% of moviegoers loved it and 99% of comics fans loved it, so it would be a unique viewpoint.

Which, unfortunately, "(whatever you love) sucks!" is not.
Reasons? Okay, here you go:
(1)Pretentious, dull, long, pretentious, unrealistic (but claims to be), overrated, pretentious, and yeah, did I mention pretentious?
Batman himself is awful. (2)He is impotent in his own movie, growls all the time, his fights are dull and his batsuit looks like it was made for him before he got some extra pounds. (3)And he's a goddamn hypocrite. When he didn't kill Joker it was purely to show "You see? Our hero. He doesn't kill the scorned ones". And couple of minutes later he kills Two-Face. Nice. Oh, and before Harvey became Two-Face, (4)Bats had an enormous boner whenever he seen him for no apparent reason.
(5)Joker is simply not a Joker. He is a f[flowers!]cking creepy lunatic, but he doesn't do anything Joker-ish in entire movie. Except maybe for the pencil trick. Where are jokes? I'm not talking about permawhite, or clownish killing devices, okay, but where are the jokes? Why is he wearing clown make up at all? (6)He isn't a killer clown, he's a killer that dresses like a clown. There is a difference.
(7)That chick Maggy Gylenhaal was playing was horrible and looked horrible.
Two-Face. Oh my god Two-Face. First, we're told that he had a nickname Harvey Two-Face. This was to establish his darker side. Okay. Then later he is shown interrogating the guy. Okay, kinda works. Then it's shown that the coin's sides are all the same. So he wouldn't have hurt the guy he was interrogating. So it wasn't actually so dark. Oops. Then his girlfriend dies, and this explosion instead of turning him into a psycho turns him into a f[rainbows!]cking idiot. Joker talks to him for five minutes and Harvey agrees that he should kill his friends and co-workers. What the hell. (8)Oh, yeah, and where is the split personality thingamajig? And why his voice doesn't change when one side of his face is practically nothing but scull? (9)And why the eye on this side is unharmed?
(10)Lucius Fox is dime-a-dozen magical black man. At least Morgan Freeman (being THE magical black man of american cinema) does his job well.
Alfred is useless.
Jim Gordon became a pleasant surprise in this company of losers. For the first time in six (not counting Adam West and BW movies) movies he actually does shit! That's progress.
(11)Dialogs. They are just horrible. The amount of pretentiousness makes guys in picture galleries sound like drunk teenagers. Apparently, mr. Nolan thinks he is a patron of the arts. He can think of himself whatever he wants, but this pretentious shit doesn't work in the movie, in which a man who dresses up like a bat fights a clown.
Overall atmosphere doesn't work either. There is a line after which the movie about a man who dresses up like a bat and fights a clown shouldn't take itself seriously. The Dark Knight doesn't even come close to this line, it starts with seriousness taken over 9000.
(12)Well, does that make clear why I think TDK sucks?
(1) So much ground to cover just in this one sentence. Pretentious how? Dull, how? "Dull" doesn't exactly qualify a statement. "Derivative" or "well-tread" would speak to how something was dull to you. And again I ask, pretentious how? Unrealistic, what, for a superhero movie? And how does it claim to be realistic? At what point do the characters break the fourth wall and ask the audience, "You get that this is supposed to be realistic, right?" Overrated isn't quite as preposterous, but it is usually a claim made by someone who can present an alternative that they prefer and why. Even if that's not always the case, stating that something is overrated is acknowledging that it is merely overrated in your own view - you didn't like it as much as so many others. That isn't evidence that a movie "sucked." I'd also suggest that you look up "pretentious." It doesn't mean that you didn't enjoy the movie. It means that the movie was trying desperately to appear a certain way to the audience instead of simply being a certain way. But I'll bite: in what way was The Dark Knight pretentious, pretentious, pretentious and also pretentious?

(2) Doesn't he save the day, and kick a whole lot of ass? I can only surmise that you mean that he had to take the blame to save the city and didn't just spend the whole 2 hours going on a rampaging ass-kick-a-thon, therefore clearly he is impotent. Let me know when YOU wage a one-man war on the entire mob dressed up in an animal costume using ninja tactics and sci-fi weapons if you ever struggle in a fight. I guess that's also why A BATMAN MOVIE was unrealistic. Oh well. Somebody call Joel Schumacher, we need a retcon. The growling bothers some friends of mine, and overall I have to say I enjoyed how he did it in the first one better. Still not a reason why a movie objectively sucked. Christopher Nolan is a very traditional director when it comes to effects and fight choreography. To some, this means that his films look "dated" because they don't ape the Wachowskis like just about every friggin' director from the past decade. Not to me. I like in-your-face action, shaky cam, and slow-mo as much as the next guy - just not as often, and only in the hands of talented directors. I also like to see a movie wherein the human beings move like human beings. I will admit, there were some action sequences in Inception that were underwhelming. But I'd rather watch them than someone other than Paul Greengrass doing epilepsy cam any day. The action in Braveheart, Aliens, and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade still hold up. They aren't dull simply because they aren't filmed in glorious Robert Rodriguez vision. And the fact that you credit (what you consider to be) bad fight choreography to the character or the actor says that you're not quite a critic yet, young padawan. Keep telling Christian Bale he's fat, though.

(3) At this point I'm just convinced you're on acid (MODS: I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING DRUG USAGE).

(4) Make that cocaine (MODS: I WOULD NOW LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME TO PERSONALLY CONDEMN COCAINE USAGE).

(5) Yup. Cocaine.

(6) So, because the Joker is not a killer clown, but rather a killer dressed as a clown, it's unrealistic? Have you consulted John Wayne Gacy on this?

(7) Interestingly, and I really thought I'd be alone here, most of my friends who care more about quality of acting and less about using their legitimate films as pornography also find the choice of the admittedly less good-looking Maggie Gyllenhall over the cute-as-Hell-but-not-terribly-talented Katie Holmes to be a good one. But you disagree, again because she's "horrible." I'm sorry, "was playing was horrible and looked horrible." I'll bet you hate Kathy Bates as well. Because, of course, women are only here for us to pretend we're fucking.

(8) I don't know, maybe they didn't give Harvey DID because they wanted the movie to me more, y'know, realistic. DID is usually not spontaneous.

(9) T-shirt!

(10) I would love to pretend this is a reference to Michael Clarke Duncan in The Green Mile. How unfortunate that I know better. I'm fairly certain, given that Christopher Nolan has never shown any racism or race-pretentious tendencies in his films, that the race of Lucious Fox is inconsequential.

(11) I don't know what you're talking about at all, but you do have a point: what realism are you seeking in a movie wherein a guy dressed up like a bat fights a clown? I will tell you, though, that most of the weapons, physics and science in the game are all based on real-world things/phenomena, and that The Dark Knight is so highly regarded not just for how good a Batman film it is, but for how good a movie it is on its own merits, how it transcends being a simple popcorn film, and how it makes a comic franchise seem like realistic fiction.

(12) No, it really doesn't, so again we have to infer. I'm guessing you just didn't like it because it's not what you're used to, and you don't see movies to see something you haven't experienced before (and apparently because it was longer than 90 minutes, which in your book is a no-no). There really wasn't any objectivity in your description at all. That's OK - you just need to admit it. And clear up some of the muddy stuff in there. "It sucks because it sucks" isn't an adult description.
 
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CthulhuRlyeh said:
Stanley Kubrick
(even though Lucas used to be good)
See, the more I look into this, the more I think he never was. Lucas had a brilliant idea on his fourth re-write after he shamelessly stole from Campbell, but even then his directing is reduced down to two lines. Lucas is a visionary, but no great director.
might as well include Cameron as well, since he is a much more established director (Terminator, Terminator 2 and Aliens), that also pulled out an oscar nominated performance out of Weaver, a landmark in sci-fi.
Cameron is another out-right stealer. Like Kubrick, he knows how to manipulate an audience. (And I have to give him points for the "morphing" tech.), but he doesn't create a meaningful film. Memorable, yes. Box-office beating, yes. But look at all his films (And Lucas), Cameron has stolen a story, re-wrote it to provide a framework for others and then most of his best work from that has been "inspired" by others.

EDIT: This is from an interview with Del Toro about Cameron, who has been Del Toros close friend for over 20 years:
"He's a guy I completely admire. This is a guy who, in every sense of the word, is formidable. This guy has literally gone to the depths of the ocean. He has pushed the medium. He's not the most successful filmmaker in history. He's the first and second most successful moviemaker in history."
Filmmaker. Not Director. I believe there is a difference. Del Toro, Reitman (Another missing), Lynch, Cronenburg, Scott, Gilliam (How did I forget Gilliam????) all make a enclosed film that resonates with the audience. Cameron/Lucas et. al. create audience resonations on film.

Take a look at any of the films that Cameron/Lucas have made and remove the visuals. They're no longer proper stories. Similar with the sound. They direct the audience rather than the film, imho.


Oh, and about TDK, it wasn't as bad as Batman Begins, which was a blessing. But it still wasn't Batman. It was just about the Joker.
 

funguy2121

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RT said:
7. Kathy Bates is a comic actress, y'know. She doesn't need to be pretty.
Wow, Holy shit am I stupid. I never realized that Misery and Dolores Claiborne and At Play in the Fields of the Lord were comedies.

RT said:
...it is also reference to...whoever that guy was in Family Man...I'm not looking for realism...and what's worse, it tries to be realistic in one areas...And you counter-arguments are based on either misunderstanding or just having cheap laughs.

And that is a really long post.
I'll just say "uh-huh."
 

Nouw

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Kubrick by far, but I really wanted to vote for Spielberg.
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Well to be fair, Cameron made a few excellent films. Namely the first 2 Terminators, Aliens and the Abyss.
 
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Nouw said:
Kubrick by far, but I really wanted to vote for Spielberg.
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Well to be fair, Cameron made a few excellent films. Namely the first 2 Terminators, Aliens and the Abyss.
OK, he made a few very successful films off the back of an already populated genre by taking everything to the max. (Which also would include Titanic and Avatar), but he's a maker, not a director.

Ask yourself: What would happen to me if I was a background character in any of Cameron's films. Would I just be protagonist fodder?
 

Nouw

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Nouw said:
Kubrick by far, but I really wanted to vote for Spielberg.
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Well to be fair, Cameron made a few excellent films. Namely the first 2 Terminators, Aliens and the Abyss.
OK, he made a few very successful films off the back of an already populated genre by taking everything to the max. (Which also would include Titanic and Avatar), but he's a maker, not a director.

Ask yourself: What would happen to me if I was a background character in any of Cameron's films. Would I just be protagonist fodder?
[sub]Can I be Bill Paxton?[/sub]Yes I would be. Chances are, I'd die a very horrible death.
 

Pat8u

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Hatchet90 said:
RT said:
funguy2121 said:
RT said:
George Lucas, lol.

But if we're being serious, I'd say Francis Ford Coppola.
Where the hell is Nolan?
In the parallel world where The Dark Knight didn't suck.
I schmell a schmoll. These are always people who don't qualify as why, which is further evidence that they're only posting to irk people. If someone were to present some interesting reasons why they didn't like The Dark Knight, or Inception, I'd love to hear it, as especially with the former it seems that 90% of moviegoers loved it and 99% of comics fans loved it, so it would be a unique viewpoint.

Which, unfortunately, "(whatever you love) sucks!" is not.
Reasons? Okay, here you go:
Pretentious, dull, long, pretentious, unrealistic (but claims to be), overrated, pretentious, and yeah, did I mention pretentious?
Batman himself is awful. He is impotent in his own movie, growls all the time, his fights are dull and his batsuit looks like it was made for him before he got some extra pounds. And he's a goddamn hypocrite. When he didn't kill Joker it was purely to show "You see? Our hero. He doesn't kill the scorned ones". And couple of minutes later he kills Two-Face. Nice. Oh, and before Harvey became Two-Face, Bats had an enormous boner whenever he seen him for no apparent reason.
Joker is simply not a Joker. He is a f[flowers!]cking creepy lunatic, but he doesn't do anything Joker-ish in entire movie. Except maybe for the pencil trick. Where are jokes? I'm not talking about permawhite, or clownish killing devices, okay, but where are the jokes? Why is he wearing clown make up at all? He isn't a killer clown, he's a killer that dresses like a clown. There is a difference.
That chick Maggy Gylenhaal was playing was horrible and looked horrible.
Two-Face. Oh my god Two-Face. First, we're told that he had a nickname Harvey Two-Face. This was to establish his darker side. Okay. Then later he is shown interrogating the guy. Okay, kinda works. Then it's shown that the coin's sides are all the same. So he wouldn't have hurt the guy he was interrogating. So it wasn't actually so dark. Oops. Then his girlfriend dies, and this explosion instead of turning him into a psycho turns him into a f[rainbows!]cking idiot. Joker talks to him for five minutes and Harvey agrees that he should kill his friends and co-workers. What the hell. Oh, yeah, and where is the split personality thingamajig? And why his voice doesn't change when one side of his face is practically nothing but scull? And why the eye on this side is unharmed?
Lucius Fox is dime-a-dozen magical black man. At least Morgan Freeman (being THE magical black man of american cinema) does his job well.
Alfred is useless.
Jim Gordon became a pleasant surprise in this company of losers. For the first time in six (not counting Adam West and BW movies) movies he actually does shit! That's progress.
Dialogs. They are just horrible. The amount of pretentiousness makes guys in picture galleries sound like drunk teenagers. Apparently, mr. Nolan thinks he is a patron of the arts. He can think of himself whatever he wants, but this pretentious shit doesn't work in the movie, in which a man who dresses up like a bat fights a clown.
Overall atmosphere doesn't work either. There is a line after which the movie about a man who dresses up like a bat and fights a clown shouldn't take itself seriously. The Dark Knight doesn't even come close to this line, it starts with seriousness taken over 9000.
Well, does that make clear why I think TDK sucks?
I certainly smell a troll.


Or... are you? I laughed either way.

OT: Out of the choices on this list, I choose none of them. For Sidney Lumet is the greatest director, may he rest in peace.
yeah I think hes a troll
also I will have the best troll related vid in this forum

 

CthulhuRlyeh

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
CthulhuRlyeh said:
Stanley Kubrick
(even though Lucas used to be good)
See, the more I look into this, the more I think he never was. Lucas had a brilliant idea on his fourth re-write after he shamelessly stole from Campbell, but even then his directing is reduced down to two lines. Lucas is a visionary, but no great director.
might as well include Cameron as well, since he is a much more established director (Terminator, Terminator 2 and Aliens), that also pulled out an oscar nominated performance out of Weaver, a landmark in sci-fi.
Cameron is another out-right stealer. Like Kubrick, he knows how to manipulate an audience. (And I have to give him points for the "morphing" tech.), but he doesn't create a meaningful film. Memorable, yes. Box-office beating, yes. But look at all his films (And Lucas), Cameron has stolen a story, re-wrote it to provide a framework for others and then most of his best work from that has been "inspired" by others.

EDIT: This is from an interview with Del Toro about Cameron, who has been Del Toros close friend for over 20 years:
"He's a guy I completely admire. This is a guy who, in every sense of the word, is formidable. This guy has literally gone to the depths of the ocean. He has pushed the medium. He's not the most successful filmmaker in history. He's the first and second most successful moviemaker in history."
Filmmaker. Not Director. I believe there is a difference. Del Toro, Reitman (Another missing), Lynch, Cronenburg, Scott, Gilliam (How did I forget Gilliam????) all make a enclosed film that resonates with the audience. Cameron/Lucas et. al. create audience resonations on film.

Take a look at any of the films that Cameron/Lucas have made and remove the visuals. They're no longer proper stories. Similar with the sound. They direct the audience rather than the film, imho.


Oh, and about TDK, it wasn't as bad as Batman Begins, which was a blessing. But it still wasn't Batman. It was just about the Joker.
Sorry, but I heavily disagree here (well, not on the Lucas bit that much, since it is such a complex topic). I think you are just grasping at straws here.
He doesnt create a meaningful film? How? All his films have a certain theme, so they do have a meaning. Terminator is about technophobia, Aliens is a Vietnam allegory/female empowerment tale, Terminator 2 is about being able to change our fate/robots being able to understand human emotions (an antidote to the first movie),...
His good movies arent just about the visuals, they are about the characters. If you go look at the reviews for Terminator 2, for example, it is praised for its character arcs. Terminator 2 isnt considered to be the best action movie of all time because it looks good, but because it has actual characters behind the visuals.

Artists influence other artists, this is nothing new. If we are gonna accuse Cameron of doing it, then we might as well accuse John Carpenter, Dan OBannon (writer of Alien), Stanley Kubrick, Neil Blomkamp, Christopher Nolan, ...

As for the filmmaker/director comparison - bullshit. A director is always a filmmaker, while a filmmaker isnt always a director. A screenwriter is a filmmaker, but he isnt a director.
 

Joshimodo

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Despite my love for Coppola, Tarantino and even Scorsese, whose entire body of work I love, Kubrick wins my vote.


I dare you to find a single frame in Kubrick's masterpieces that couldn't pass as a work of art. The man was a masterful cinematographer and director.
 

Arsen

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The man who directed Blade Runner is NOT up there sir.

Mr. RIdley Scott himself, that is.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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CthulhuRlyeh said:
Sorry, but I heavily disagree here (well, not on the Lucas bit that much, since it is such a complex topic). I think you are just grasping at straws here.
Disagreeing is fine. Strawman comparisons are a little unfair.
He doesnt create a meaningful film? How? All his films have a certain theme, so they do have a meaning.
Look carefully. HE doesn't CREATE the theme. Terminator was created by Harlan Ellison. Alien was created by Dan O'Bannon and others. Cameron took the ideas from these tales and wove in his own blend of special effects and re-imagined tales.

Also note that every one of his films is almost always the most expensive film up until that point. There's a huge push behind each one of them, and we know what a good push can do to box-office numbers.

Terminator is about technophobia, Aliens is a Vietnam allegory/female empowerment tale, Terminator 2 is about being able to change our fate/robots being able to understand human emotions (an antidote to the first movie),...
His good movies arent just about the visuals, they are about the characters. If you go look at the reviews for Terminator 2, for example, it is praised for its character arcs. Terminator 2 isnt considered to be the best action movie of all time because it looks good, but because it has actual characters behind the visuals.
Like I said, the basic plot is a simple Aesop/Grimm Brothers tale, but with strong special effects. But the characters are kept really low in number, which allows more focus to be used on them.

But also, you can understand what it'd be like to live in Die Hard's world, Shrek's world, The Godfather's world, The Matrix's world.
Could you even imagine working for Weiland-Yutani? Cyberdyne?

Artists influence other artists, this is nothing new. If we are gonna accuse Cameron of doing it, then we might as well accuse John Carpenter, Dan OBannon (writer of Alien), Stanley Kubrick, Neil Blomkamp, Christopher Nolan, ...
I'll let Mr. Ellison answer that one.

As for the filmmaker/director comparison - bullshit. A director is always a filmmaker, while a filmmaker isnt always a director. A screenwriter is a filmmaker, but he isnt a director.
I disagree. Directors help make films. Filmmakers may direct. And you've helped me on the last point: Cameron was one of the screenwriters for Aliens and the Terminator series.

And also for Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines. Where did his wonderful character arcs go in that movie? Was it because William Wisher Jr. (Die Hard, Terminator) wasn't working on this, while Cameron was on character duty?
 

CthulhuRlyeh

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Umm, yeah he creates the themes. If you actually did your research, you would know that Harlan Ellison only accused Cameron of ripping off The Soldier. When asked by a fan what else he ripped off, Harlan said that there were only similarities to The Soldier. If you think that The Terminator is a rip off of The Soldier, then you have never ever seen The Terminator.
Aliens is a sequel to Alien, but it has different themes. Alien is not about conquering your fears, Aliens is about that. Alien is not about the powers of motherhood, Aliens is about that.

Now please explain the last two paragraphs. "Directors help make films. FIlmmakers may direct." What? Also, Cameron had nothing to do with Terminator 3. If you actually thought he did, do your research before opening your mouth.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Also, Cameron had nothing to do with Terminator 3. If you actually thought he did, do your research before opening your mouth.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181852/ Writer: James Cameron.

Please stop insulting me.