I can't decide, but i once made a choice i really regreted, since I played the bad cop with Thane in a Paragon playthough
Poll: Best Mass Effect Moral Conundrum
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Personally, I took the Kaidan/Ashley choice based on who I felt was more ready to die. Ash was an ultra-patriotic front-line soldier who wanted a chance to redeem her family name. Kaidan, as well as being the superior officer, had no reason to sacrifice himself beyond simple loyalty to the team. Guess who I chose.
Looking back, I never considered that Ash had a family (although no dependents) and Kaidan didn't. I don't think it would have impacted my choice though.
The fate of the Geth heretics, in my opinion, was the hardest choice to make.
I rewrote the Geth, although I originally thought it would be the renegade choice (my first game I decided to just roleplay what I thought was the best choice and not worry about paragon/renegade scores). The Geth are, as legion put it, 'purely software'. To judge them by the moral standards of human beings seemed flawed.
As Legion also said you were only altering their most basic processes, the equivalent of a human subconsciousness. They would know what they did, they would see the logic of it, they would merely come to understand on their own that it was the wrong choice.
Put it this way, did anyone have a massive moral problem with what they did to Cillian Murphy's character in Inception?
Samara/Morinth was the easiest. While the fate of her sisters didn't seem very nice, Morinth was eating people's nervous systems for pleasure.
By contrast, Samara's story was genuinely touching. (In case it wasn't obvious because I missed it on a first playthrough: Samara has 3 daughters. There are 3 known Ardat Yakshi. Do the maths).
Looking back, I never considered that Ash had a family (although no dependents) and Kaidan didn't. I don't think it would have impacted my choice though.
The fate of the Geth heretics, in my opinion, was the hardest choice to make.
I rewrote the Geth, although I originally thought it would be the renegade choice (my first game I decided to just roleplay what I thought was the best choice and not worry about paragon/renegade scores). The Geth are, as legion put it, 'purely software'. To judge them by the moral standards of human beings seemed flawed.
As Legion also said you were only altering their most basic processes, the equivalent of a human subconsciousness. They would know what they did, they would see the logic of it, they would merely come to understand on their own that it was the wrong choice.
Put it this way, did anyone have a massive moral problem with what they did to Cillian Murphy's character in Inception?
Samara/Morinth was the easiest. While the fate of her sisters didn't seem very nice, Morinth was eating people's nervous systems for pleasure.
By contrast, Samara's story was genuinely touching. (In case it wasn't obvious because I missed it on a first playthrough: Samara has 3 daughters. There are 3 known Ardat Yakshi. Do the maths).
Euthanasia is a good thing. The threat he does or does not pose to me is immaterial. If he's unsaveable, it makes no sense to artificially prolong his brain-dead body.J03bot said:
The Geth thing was easy for me.
With Kaiden and Ashley, Ashley was stationed at the nuke and said she could make sure it went off. All I needed to hear, besides her poetry bored me.
The council thing: 1. Saving them would have meant a chance for a Reaper to retaliate/get away. That cannot stand.
2. They spent the whole game ignoring me anyway. Good riddance.
For the Rachni, I didn't let the past dictate the future. All races are involved in wars, I didn't see anyone lobbying for Krogan extinction in spite of their constant "we'll kill everyone when we beat the Genophage" attitude. (or was I the only one who got that impression?) I let the new queen sing her songs in peace, her agent tells me she's doing just that. Still, even if she lies, it's nothing compared to the Reaper threat.
I wasn't aware Morinth could be saved, she's kind of a monster with no redeeming qualities in my eyes.
Garrus's bloodlust seemed well justified both times, those bastards shouldn't get to walk away from their crimes.
The Collector base had to go, even if the supposed most advanced society in the galaxy (the Protheans, to my understanding) didn't have some kind of failsafe for invaders, The Illusive Man can't be trusted with it. [sub]I was waiting for him to flip a switch to detonate a bomb in my head the moment I defied him. It did not happen, perplexingly.[/sub]
EDIT:
Saving them seemed the most logical thing to do. Legion said the heretics branched off from them and became considerably different. This means it can happen, which means it can happen again. Destroying them all wouldn't really change anything, I think, just delay the learning process. Legion also said (i'm fairly certain) that by sparing the heretics, they could be analyzed, the "real" Geth can figure out what went wrong and possibly prevent future splitting. By destroying the heretic geth, you're only fixing a temporary problem, it seems.
Yes, yes, they were reprogrammed, but what do you think Sovreign did to them? Is it really impossible that they were indoctrinated (reprogrammed) as well? Is it wrong to skullfuck someone's beliefs (which are for suckers anyway, I'd say) if they believe in killing all non-machine life and worshipping the goddamn reapers, harvesters of sentient life, greatest genocide thinkable, for untold eons?
Yes, yes, they were reprogrammed, but what do you think Sovreign did to them? Is it really impossible that they were indoctrinated (reprogrammed) as well? Is it wrong to skullfuck someone's beliefs (which are for suckers anyway, I'd say) if they believe in killing all non-machine life and worshipping the goddamn reapers, harvesters of sentient life, greatest genocide thinkable, for untold eons?
With Kaiden and Ashley, Ashley was stationed at the nuke and said she could make sure it went off. All I needed to hear, besides her poetry bored me.
The council thing: 1. Saving them would have meant a chance for a Reaper to retaliate/get away. That cannot stand.
2. They spent the whole game ignoring me anyway. Good riddance.
For the Rachni, I didn't let the past dictate the future. All races are involved in wars, I didn't see anyone lobbying for Krogan extinction in spite of their constant "we'll kill everyone when we beat the Genophage" attitude. (or was I the only one who got that impression?) I let the new queen sing her songs in peace, her agent tells me she's doing just that. Still, even if she lies, it's nothing compared to the Reaper threat.
I wasn't aware Morinth could be saved, she's kind of a monster with no redeeming qualities in my eyes.
Garrus's bloodlust seemed well justified both times, those bastards shouldn't get to walk away from their crimes.
The Collector base had to go, even if the supposed most advanced society in the galaxy (the Protheans, to my understanding) didn't have some kind of failsafe for invaders, The Illusive Man can't be trusted with it. [sub]I was waiting for him to flip a switch to detonate a bomb in my head the moment I defied him. It did not happen, perplexingly.[/sub]
EDIT:
I recently began another playthrough of ME 2, loading up my good guy data from the first game only this time playing as a ruthless, paralell universe version of that Shepard. I go around threatening people, shooting first, and pretending to be out of medigel when the wounded ask for aid. What troubles me is Tali. I was nice to her (everyone, really) in the first game and in the second as my Paragon Shepard, but even being volcanic-scarface bizarro Shepard, I'm still compelled to act kindly and level-headed around her.
It's rather disturbing, I laughed at the little girl reverse-falling out of the window in that Dead Island trailer, but Tali reminds me of a child in need of help (remember the reasuring cuddle Shepard gives when she sees her dead father? Think it was the paragon trigger response.) and something in my head clicks to a sort of parental mindset, "Protect girl, set good example." Just not having her in my party helps, but that this happens at all is somewhat astounding. Bioware is truly amazing.
It's rather disturbing, I laughed at the little girl reverse-falling out of the window in that Dead Island trailer, but Tali reminds me of a child in need of help (remember the reasuring cuddle Shepard gives when she sees her dead father? Think it was the paragon trigger response.) and something in my head clicks to a sort of parental mindset, "Protect girl, set good example." Just not having her in my party helps, but that this happens at all is somewhat astounding. Bioware is truly amazing.
I agree Heart was nasty, but Sidonis was just frightened. He didn't walk away from it either, he was wracked with guilt.LaughingAtlas said:
Pfft. I had harder moral choices in GTA. These were all easy for me. The best one was still the geth one, though.
well the geth and the krogan virus stopped me 4 a bit, but notso much 4 the krogan anymore as i save the research but then do nothing with it, so that-a-way lives used in testing not pointless and if krogans are near extinct i can give it out, but until then they're population stays in check not being a blight on the galaxy.
although honestly the galaxy would need their large numbers to fight the reapers, and this could be said about the rachni aswell.
although honestly the galaxy would need their large numbers to fight the reapers, and this could be said about the rachni aswell.
Oddly enough I never got the feeling the Illusive Man was untrustworthy. I mean aside from all the characters saying so, I think he was pretty straight forward. He doesn't want to go out of his way to infringe on other species, so much as he wants to better Humanity in the galaxy. That pretty much implies that eggs will be broken for his omelet, so I don't get it. He lays it all on front street.Gill Kaiser said:
I chose Morinth over Samara. its the only decision that I regret somewhat. Morinth is the more interesting character though so no worries. A close 2nd is letting garrus kill the dude.I let garrus kill the dude the 2nd time around...stopped him the 1st time.
Edit for clarification- Samara just swore her life and code over to me. This was our loyalty mission and I had told her i'd be on her side. Her daughter was the more interesting character ( looking fowards to seeing whaat happens in ME3 with morinth)( also there was the whole killing her just because of what she was being morally wrong*...so i went against my better judgement and took her along. Thats the only time i went against my gut.
Garrus...well the 2nd time around the target was wrecked with guilt, so I put him out of his misery
Edit for clarification- Samara just swore her life and code over to me. This was our loyalty mission and I had told her i'd be on her side. Her daughter was the more interesting character ( looking fowards to seeing whaat happens in ME3 with morinth)( also there was the whole killing her just because of what she was being morally wrong*...so i went against my better judgement and took her along. Thats the only time i went against my gut.
Garrus...well the 2nd time around the target was wrecked with guilt, so I put him out of his misery
Opposite for me. Renegade for everything...aside from the Geth mission. I wiped their minds. SUCK THAT, GETH! (Actually, it was mostly because I wanted to count on the Geth's FULL support in Mass Effect 3)ZombieHunter said:
The choice that took the longest for me was at the beginning of MS2 when you get hired as a mercenary to take down Garrus 'The Archangel'. Did you break the kids gun, or let him go face down Garrus? I let the kid go...and was treated to a scene of him getting shot in the head almost immediately.
My only reaction was 'Worth it.'
The Ashley/Kaidan choice isn't a moral choice - it's just pure chance/whim ultimately.
A lot of these "conundrums" ultimately come down to whether you consider them using a deontological method (using principles only without consideration for consequences) or a consequentialist view (considering the consequences).
I am a hard-line deontologist so most of these choices were easy for me.
Saved the Rachni, Saved the council, Dissuaded Garrus, Rewrote the Geth, Saved the Genophage research, Samara, Destroyed the base. Those all happen to be paragon choices, which leads me to believe someone at Bioware has studied some ethics.
The only choice I did a bit of a double-take on was the Geth question.
Ultimately, I remembered that it was Sovereign that was responsible for changing the Geth's programming, and what he did is more akin to the indoctrination on organics than it is a means of "persuasion." The game and extra credits kept trying to present it as an analog between groups who just held different perspectives, but I did not see it that way. Those Geth did not have a choice to serve Sovereign, and I was freeing them. If they chose to make enemies of humans again of their own free will, so be it. It was obvious that there wasn't a perfect analog between human consciousness and Geth consciousness anyway.
A lot of these "conundrums" ultimately come down to whether you consider them using a deontological method (using principles only without consideration for consequences) or a consequentialist view (considering the consequences).
I am a hard-line deontologist so most of these choices were easy for me.
Saved the Rachni, Saved the council, Dissuaded Garrus, Rewrote the Geth, Saved the Genophage research, Samara, Destroyed the base. Those all happen to be paragon choices, which leads me to believe someone at Bioware has studied some ethics.
The only choice I did a bit of a double-take on was the Geth question.
Ultimately, I remembered that it was Sovereign that was responsible for changing the Geth's programming, and what he did is more akin to the indoctrination on organics than it is a means of "persuasion." The game and extra credits kept trying to present it as an analog between groups who just held different perspectives, but I did not see it that way. Those Geth did not have a choice to serve Sovereign, and I was freeing them. If they chose to make enemies of humans again of their own free will, so be it. It was obvious that there wasn't a perfect analog between human consciousness and Geth consciousness anyway.
She didn't kill her because of what she was. Morinth has two sisters, both of whom are locked away in secluded monasteries not being killed. Samara was hunting Morinth because she's addicted to killing people by agonizingly overloading their central nervous systems and went on the run rather than give it up.Dendio said:
As for ME3, assuming Shepherd didn't take the bait and suffer death by snoo snoo, I guess Morinth will get bored and go off to find someone else to eat. She's an addict, it's what she does. I'll be surprised if she reappears in more than a vague supporting role.
I think the Krogan was the most interesting philosophically - is it justified to essentially commit genocide to protect the galaxy - but Garrus' was the most emotionally powerful choice. I spent the whole mission expecting Sidonis to be this mustache-twirling villain, and when I finally met him I was taken aback.
The only decision that actually made me stop and think was the reaper base. Sure, when I tried playing ME1 as a renegade (second playthrough, having just come off as a paragon soldier the one before), I couldn't bring myself to kill an entire species. With the Reapers, it was Grunt saying, "you don't throw away a weapon that the enemy gives to you" hit home. Up to that point I was fully gung ho about wiping out the base, but I ended up stopping mid conversation for about 10 minutes (twice as long as Kaidan/Ashley)