Poll: Biggest Pet Peeves In RPGs

[Rawne1980]

Choices for me.

I can live with everything else but i'm sick of certain RPG's playing up the choice angle when none of them make the slightest bit of difference.

Why bother having choices if they don't mean anything.

It's like going out for a meal, being offered steak or salad, asking for the steak and then being given the bloody salad anyway.

Why offer if I don't get what i'm choosing.

DA2, I chose to ally with the Templars because the Mages had been massive skunk pussies to me all the way through the game whereas the Templars were friendly and civil.

Turns out it didn't matter a toss what I chose.

 

[Indecipherable]

I chose half-done romances as it's the thing on the poll list that has genuinely irritated me the most often (and most recently), although I've carped about almost everything on that list at one time or another.

Really though, had it been a poll option, I'd have gone for binary morality. It absolutely KILLED Knights of the Old Republic for me, which is a game most people cannot stop fellating. I found it agonizingly juvenile in its approach to morality and the force. Want to go to the Dark Side? Better wax up that mustache, Snidely, because you're going to be twirling it.

I think Kotor is a bad example because of how ingrained in the lore the morality system is. Darkside points = evil actions. The lore states this so I have never had an issue with it, where as in morally grey games like Mass Effect I really see no reason for a morality system at all. Plus, the darkside options in Kotor II are fucking hilarious.

The implementation in KOTOR, and TOR, is really poorly done. My Bounty Hunter in TOR massacres countless people to reach his target but then, because he's not a raving psychopath, tends to take them in rather than executing them on the spot. Apparently that makes him a full light side Bounty Hunter - forget the thousands of corpses and husband/fatherless families left in his wake.

Also, KOTOR had this thing where it was:

a) Rescue creche from marauding villains.
b) Burn creche before marauding villains arrive.

Seriously just juvenile choices like that. Admitted there are one or two which make you feel genuinely badass and clever but all too often it's just a profoundly stupid evil.

 

[Indecipherable]

I said plot armor but I really hate the overuse of racist themes as well. It gets tiring.

Plot armor is one of those things that gets more annoying the less of it there is in a game. When I'm playing the role of a selfless hero and I'm forbidden from killing innocent people alltogether? Fine. But when I'm playing an open ended RPG and like 1-2 people are apparently just above being threatened by me? No. Then it's enough to make you *livid* if you really wanted to kill said people...

That's why I preach Morrowind so much. You hate God (Vivec)? Kill him.

Kai Leng's plot armor pissed me off, but then again ME3 had some of the stupidest cutscenes in the series.

I found Kai Leng to be excruciatingly cheesy as a villain. Then again, I hate anime/japanese style themes and I felt he was a techno-ninja in a world that didn't need one. To me he was out of place.

Oh, reading this makes me add another to my list of pet peeves:

That Companion You Can't Get Rid Of - I'm sure we've all had this one at some stage. What's really $#*ing annoying is when they introduce them in some kind of double dealing where, say, they are sent to kill you and fail, and for some fucking ungodly reason you have to now take them into your party. When I played Dragon Age: Origins I told Zevran to $#&* OFF. What kind of a tard lets someone who just tried to kill you into the buddy circle? MIND BLOWN AWAY. There's others where they don't even give you the courtesy of telling one of your ass wipe companions to piss off.

Don't you get the option to actually kill him during that part though?

Eventually you do, but not before he shows off how awesome his techno-ninja bullshit skills are with his fairy dancing around.

Fucking just want to blow his brains out with a shotgun.

 

[Emiscary]

Choices for me.

I can live with everything else but i'm sick of certain RPG's playing up the choice angle when none of them make the slightest bit of difference.

Why bother having choices if they don't mean anything.

It's like going out for a meal, being offered steak or salad, asking for the steak and then being given the bloody salad anyway.

Why offer if I don't get what i'm choosing.

DA2, I chose to ally with the Templars because the Mages had been massive skunk pussies to me all the way through the game whereas the Templars were friendly and civil.

Turns out it didn't matter a toss what I chose.

Faux choice is one of the easiest ones to get pissed about, because at it's heart it's a bait and switch tactic.

"Here, we'll let you do things however you want! ...it won't change *anything*, but we'll give you the option anyway!"

It was my choice for biggest pet peeve as well.

 

[Fappy]

I think Kotor is a bad example because of how ingrained in the lore the morality system is. Darkside points = evil actions. The lore states this so I have never had an issue with it, where as in morally grey games like Mass Effect I really see no reason for a morality system at all. Plus, the darkside options in Kotor II are fucking hilarious.

That's such a poor defense though. I know Star Wars is infantile in its approach to morality. That's a PROBLEM. I understand that they're attempting some loyalty to source material, but if the source material is awful, is the result not also awful?

So if you find yourself with an advantage, the cutscene will take over and the Boss will magically defeat you. In a fashion that leaves you alive to fight them later.

KOTOR did this, too! KOTOR is the worst game of all time! ROWORWOWROWOWROWORWOR...

Well your issue starts with with the IP, so of course you will have issues with the game. If you really liked an IP and its game mechanics complimented the lore wouldn't you be upset if someone who doesn't like the IP got them to change the mechanics?

 

[Fappy]

I chose half-done romances as it's the thing on the poll list that has genuinely irritated me the most often (and most recently), although I've carped about almost everything on that list at one time or another.

Really though, had it been a poll option, I'd have gone for binary morality. It absolutely KILLED Knights of the Old Republic for me, which is a game most people cannot stop fellating. I found it agonizingly juvenile in its approach to morality and the force. Want to go to the Dark Side? Better wax up that mustache, Snidely, because you're going to be twirling it.

I think Kotor is a bad example because of how ingrained in the lore the morality system is. Darkside points = evil actions. The lore states this so I have never had an issue with it, where as in morally grey games like Mass Effect I really see no reason for a morality system at all. Plus, the darkside options in Kotor II are fucking hilarious.

The implementation in KOTOR, and TOR, is really poorly done. My Bounty Hunter in TOR massacres countless people to reach his target but then, because he's not a raving psychopath, tends to take them in rather than executing them on the spot. Apparently that makes him a full light side Bounty Hunter - forget the thousands of corpses and husband/fatherless families left in his wake.

Also, KOTOR had this thing where it was:

a) Rescue creche from marauding villains.
b) Burn creche before marauding villains arrive.

Seriously just juvenile choices like that. Admitted there are one or two which make you feel genuinely badass and clever but all too often it's just a profoundly stupid evil.

Well ToR made the mistake of using generic MMO combat and questing in a story driven game. It makes no sense for full lightside Jedi Knights to go slaughter "50 whatevers" just so he can get some extra XP while collecting flowers.

 

[DoPo]

Although those are definitely some good annoyances, I think the thing that annoys me most is the characters that blurt their life story and whatever they had for lunch at you the first chance they get. When it's not important, thankfully we have been blessed with the magic button press. When the game is making me do it though, I don't care how bad the affect on my karma or reputation or evil points is, I wish there was a "I don't give a fuck, get to the point".

Oh, yes, I hate this so much. beginning of the game [generic evil monsters] uncharacteristically attack [where the player is]/[something dear to the player]. The player goes to speak to somebody about it and they go on and say that this reminds them of [evil bad person] who used those [generic evil monsters] years/decades ago but [evil bad person] was defeated so it's not possible to be him returning.

Spoiler

It's actually [evil bad person] returning.

Why the fuck do those NPCs go over local legends or things that they don't even believe likely in such detail? It sounds like asking a physicist (or a chemist?) about some element and they go into detail about alchemy out of fucking nowhere. And they finish of with saying "But alchemy is actually an intellectually dead discipline and no intelligent person would practice it."

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well your issue starts with with the IP, so of course you will have issues with the game. If you really liked an IP and its game mechanics complimented the lore wouldn't you be upset if someone who doesn't like the IP wanted them to change the mechanics?

Well this is my issue with the whole "binary morality is a part of Star Wars" defense of KOTOR. Binary morality is just lazy characterization, lazy storytelling. So we're basically saying "lazy storytelling" is an ingrained part of the Star Wars IP, and I'm not sure why we should rush to accept that. I can live with "dark side eventually leads to evil". What I want to do is have an otherwise good man get tempted down that path by passion, not because he likes kicking babies in the teeth for absolutely no discernible reason. Vader's story is about the fall of a good man, right? Why can't I duplicate that story? Why does every "dark side" option involve acting like a raging prick from the get go?

I'm not asking for sweeping changes to lore, or for the atmosphere to be ruined, or for beloved characters to be re-written into garbage. Star Wars has Lucas for that.

 

[Fappy]

Well your issue starts with with the IP, so of course you will have issues with the game. If you really liked an IP and its game mechanics complimented the lore wouldn't you be upset if someone who doesn't like the IP wanted them to change the mechanics?

Well this is my issue with the whole "binary morality is a part of Star Wars" defense of KOTOR. Binary morality is just lazy characterization, lazy storytelling. So we're basically saying "lazy storytelling" is an ingrained part of the Star Wars IP, and I'm not sure why we should rush to accept that. I can live with "dark side eventually leads to evil". What I want to do is have an otherwise good man get tempted down that path by passion, not because he likes kicking babies in the teeth for absolutely no discernible reason. Vader's story is about the fall of a good man, right? Why can't I duplicate that story? Why does every "dark side" option involve acting like a raging prick from the get go?

I'm not asking for sweeping changes to lore, or for the atmosphere to be ruined, or for beloved characters to be re-written into garbage. Star Wars has Lucas for that.

Okay I think I see where you are coming from now and I can agree with most of it. I don't have a problem with a lightside/darkside system as it is representative of your current relationship with the force. However, I will agree that they can come up with more sophisticated methods of having players find their path as you implied.

Honestly though, I have always thought most morality systems are inherently flawed. Your morality shouldn't be based on how many good and bad points you accumulate. There should be a far more coherent, complex and narrative-driven method of judging a PC's morality.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Honestly though, I have always thought most morality systems are inherently flawed. Your morality shouldn't be based on how many good and bad points you accumulate. There should be a far more coherent, complex and narrative-driven method of judging a PC's morality.

It's true, and they're all a little silly. In a (very mild) defense of, say, Mass Effect, though...at least insomuch as it compares to KOTOR...you can blend Renegade and Paragon together and end up with something that talks and behaves and rationalizes like an actual human being with realistic motivations. Try skipping between dark and light in KOTOR and you're just a lunatic...cuddling a puppy in one hand and stabbing a granny with the other.

 

[Fappy]

Honestly though, I have always thought most morality systems are inherently flawed. Your morality shouldn't be based on how many good and bad points you accumulate. There should be a far more coherent, complex and narrative-driven method of judging a PC's morality.

It's true, and they're all a little silly. In a (very mild) defense of, say, Mass Effect, though...at least insomuch as it compares to KOTOR...you can blend Renegade and Paragon together and end up with something that talks and behaves and rationalizes like an actual human being with realistic motivations. Try skipping between dark and light in KOTOR and you're just a lunatic...cuddling a puppy in one hand and stabbing a granny with the other.

I think its safe to say that Star Wars has a monopoly on logically flawed and downright insane science fiction characters. The stupidity of every character in the prequels is baffling.

 

[Weaver]

For me it's one simple thing: Padding.

I like long games but only when the games need to be that long. If your side quests are boring and pointless, maybe just save some time and don't have them. Bringing you 5 bear pelts because you'll give me a shitty level 3 sword isn't very compelling.

 

[Emiscary]

For me it's one simple thing: Padding.

I like long games but only when the games need to be that long. If your side quests are boring and pointless, maybe just save some time and don't have them. Bringing you 5 bear pelts because you'll give me a shitty level 3 sword isn't very compelling.

Fair point, but that's a universal game trope. Not just an RPG related one...

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Fair point, but that's a universal game trope. Not just an RPG related one...

I don't know about that. There's no analogue for the "bring me five bear asses" filler quests in RPGs in other genres. Fighting games? Shooters? Strategy? I can't think of anything. It's an interesting case of a separate but similar genre, the MMO, seeping into single player games. However, while the mechanic makes some rudimentary sense in the MMO, which is a lousy medium for storytelling anyway, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in a single player RPG other than serving as the blandest of filler.

 

[Skoldpadda]

That they don't seem to be around all that much these days.

Also, UNDERdone romances? How about OVERdone? Romance can have its place in any narrative of course, but these days it's there for the sake of it, and it's always written with absolutely no empathy towards the subject. To give one example, Bioware are a huge offender with this. As Bukowski once said: "if the sun inside you isn't burning your gut, don't do it."

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also, UNDERdone romances? How about OVERdone? Romance can have its place in any narrative of course, but these days it's there for the sake of it, and it's always written with absolutely no empathy towards the subject. To give one example, Bioware are a huge offender with this. As Bukowski once said: "if the sun inside you isn't burning your gut, don't do it."

What you're complaining about is the proliferation of under-done romances. If they were done with a whit of integrity, subtlety, or quality writing, they wouldn't be annoying, and you wouldn't be complaining about them. Hence "under done". I certainly wouldn't want to see MORE of the crap they're already peddling, be it the soppy hand-holding twee in Bioware games, or the OMG TITTIES in the Witcher universe.

 

[Skoldpadda]

Also, UNDERdone romances? How about OVERdone? Romance can have its place in any narrative of course, but these days it's there for the sake of it, and it's always written with absolutely no empathy towards the subject. To give one example, Bioware are a huge offender with this. As Bukowski once said: "if the sun inside you isn't burning your gut, don't do it."

What you're complaining about is the proliferation of under-done romances. If they were done with a whit of integrity, subtlety, or quality writing, they wouldn't be annoying, and you wouldn't be complaining about them. Hence "under done". I certainly wouldn't want to see MORE of the crap they're already peddling, be it the soppy hand-holding twee in Bioware games, or the OMG TITTIES in the Witcher universe.

Ah, I read OP's entry as underdone in quantity, whereas I believe it's overdone in quantity (especially in relation to its quality), and indeed he might have meant that they're underdone in quality, which I absolutely agree with.

I rather don't have them at all than the drivel we get now.

 

[marobidoux]

I chose mandatory party members but only for the main protagonist, which is supposed to be YOU. Also I hate being forced to bring along a lame party member, usually the "comic relief" that has no real reason for sticking around...

 

[Tohuvabohu]

Although I think it's a tie between Samey settings and Faux Choicem, I voted Faux Choice. It's really what pisses me off the most.

Samey settings can start off as a grinding annoyance, but if the events and overall storyline of the game are good enough, I eventually begin to see past this and forget all about it.

But there is no defending or seeing past the utter shittiness of Faux Choices. A complete cop-out for players, ineptitude and laziness in writing, and I even see this as a joke played on us. It's like someone tells me "Hey man, you wanna make a choice?"
"Yeah."
"lol Here you go!"

In RPG's, when we're apparently allowed to craft our own stories by the decisions we make, it's simply an inexcusable hackjob when the choices you make don't amount to anything at all. If the choices don't make a fucking difference, then seriously, Why even bother in the first place?

Well your issue starts with with the IP, so of course you will have issues with the game. If you really liked an IP and its game mechanics complimented the lore wouldn't you be upset if someone who doesn't like the IP wanted them to change the mechanics?

Well this is my issue with the whole "binary morality is a part of Star Wars" defense of KOTOR. Binary morality is just lazy characterization, lazy storytelling. So we're basically saying "lazy storytelling" is an ingrained part of the Star Wars IP, and I'm not sure why we should rush to accept that. I can live with "dark side eventually leads to evil". What I want to do is have an otherwise good man get tempted down that path by passion, not because he likes kicking babies in the teeth for absolutely no discernible reason. Vader's story is about the fall of a good man, right? Why can't I duplicate that story? Why does every "dark side" option involve acting like a raging prick from the get go?

I'm not asking for sweeping changes to lore, or for the atmosphere to be ruined, or for beloved characters to be re-written into garbage. Star Wars has Lucas for that.

I think the first time I remember this sort of logic being called out was when Kreia came into the mix in KOTOR 2. She berates you for acting needlessly violent and murderous, and ultimately deems you a complete failure to her if you slaughter the masters.

The basis about how the force is supposed to work was examined critically in this game. I wish the later writers for Star Wars would've kept these examinations and expanded on them, as there's a lot of potential there.

But it seems Star Wars will probably never get past the "Light = Good. Dark = Bad." trope ever again.

 

[RJ 17]

My biggest pet peeve is inventories. I'm the type of player that picks up every useless piece of crap item I can get my grubby little hands on in an RPG so that I can go back to town and sell off all that crap. Kinda hard to do so in games like Elder Scrolls with it's weight limit and Dragon Age with it's number of items limit. Nothing more frustrating than getting halfway through a dungeon and going to pick up something only to find "Nope! Can't pick this up cause your inventory is full!"

I also hate weird level up systems, such as the sphere grid from FFX.