Poll: Can piracy be justified?

[4RM3D]

Can piracy be justified? I suppose for the law it's all 'black and white'. But, as a community, do you think some reasons for piracy can be accepted? There is right, there is wrong and then there is a big gray area. To name a few examples of what I consider 'gray':

(Media = movies, series, music, games; so we are clear on interpretation I am using)
- The media is not being released in your country
- The media is being censored or otherwise is inferior in your country
- The media is released at unfairly high prices (I'm looking at you Australia)
- The media is being released with (intrusive) DRM or other kind of regional restrictions that makes the media unplayable for you

Personally, I think all of the above examples are a good arguments. Even so, I wouldn't start pirating just yet. If I really want something and it's not being released in my country, I would try to import it (up to a certain price). Same goes for censored/inferior products. If I would be faced with high prices, I would just wait until a (Steam) sale. And if the games have crappy DRM (*cough* Ubisoft *cough*), I'll just blacklist the whole company and stop caring about their games. But I can understand if people want to use 'alternative means' of acquiring the media in these cases.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Pft, stupid PotC movies.

The 4th had mermaids in them, though, and rather ethnically diverse as well, which is unusual, normally you only see European mermaids, but shouldn't Carribean mermaids look more, well, Carribean? Unless Carribean mermaids look European for no good reason, or mermaids migrate.

...

Yeah, board rules say that advocating crimes such as computer piracy will get you suspended or banned. You could advocate for real piracy, overthrowing your government, murdering any other forum member that disagrees with your beliefs...but computer piracy is SRS BZNS.

 

[Rastien]

As it's a form of entertainment and a luxury not something you NEED, it's stealing you can't really justify it. If you can afford x console to run y media chances are you can afford y media.

However whilst i don't agree you can justify piracy, i can't see the need to bash on people who do pirate. It's not your place to tell someone else what they can and can't do, that's for the police and courts to decide.

Also modern games need more demos... it's a lot to ask to sink £30+ on a brand new game with no experience. Music you get demo clips of the songs, films you get to see bits of the film, games? you get to watch most demos... but not play, your buying an interactive form of media the demo should be interactive.

 

[Keoul]

Blah Blah it all depends on personal morales.

People will find ways to justify anything they do, piracy is among them.

 

[Suijen]

Here's my view. If you own a copy of it on one platform, you should own it in all platforms. If you're just buying the license to play a game, why would it matter what you play it on? And if you lose the physical disk, then you should have every right to get a free copy of the game.

And also, a friend or family who lends or gives you his game is not considered a lost sale or piracy either.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Pft, stupid PotC movies.

First thought *define piracy*

Second thought *wonders if online privateering is possible*

...

=_=

 

[poipoi01]

The "here is some awesome free shit!" side of it i think should be legal, but not the "want some cheap movies? Just a heads up that this is illegal and the movie looks like ass." part

 

[burningdragoon]

Without getting into too much, yes it can be justified sometimes. But! It is far, far easier for it to be rationalized, which is what most people do.

 

[JochemHippie]

I don't think the price for which media goes for today is justified by any means.
So yeah.

 

[Sean951]

I think it could be argued as a form of protest. For example, ebooks for my Kindle cost almost as much as a paperback copy, and in some cases cost more. I stick to the free and cheap books I find, but I feel that one could argue that pirating books is a form of protest against the insane pricing set by companies when all you really need is an author and an editor. That said, I don't condone piracy.

EDIT: I have "pirated" some ebooks as well, but that was to save money buying a second copy since I already own a hard copy.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

In some rare cases I think it can be justified, but mostly I would only think it was okay if the thing being pirated was, for example:

1. Not available anywhere commerically, and there were/are no plans for reintroducing it. So in the case of the Star Wars Holiday Special, or the early Dad's Army/Doctor Who episodes back in the day, a lot old 90s cartoons and old videogames, fans should keep circulating the tapes to make sure the record of it is preserved. However, if the thing comes back into production, or a re-release is made, then the piracy becomes wrong again if it's continued.

2. Related to the above, but on a country scale. if something is not available in your country, and will not become available in your country due to censorship/lack of interest, then in the interests of preserving the fandom, showing that the show is loved overseas, or as a form of protest, then piracy is acceptable, again with the exception that when the media becomes available for purchase it is purchased.

Caveat: This does not justify pirating when the release date for your country is just a little later than another country. So if you're in Britain and could watch The Big Bang Theory or Castle or HIMYM only a week/month behind the Americans? Then it's not justified. nor is it justified if the DVD release is in six months. If you're still pirating then, you have impulse control problems.

 

[IndianaJonny]

Piracy can sometimes have its place.

 

[Autumnflame]

if a business wont change their model and sell to people who are willing. or refuse to offer an attractive product people will pirate.

i know here in Australia. there are many shows that i will never see without piracy or waiting 2+ years to get a dvd box set if i am lucky.

being that you cant make a alt brand of a game like you can do with physical goods ( tvs ect.)

if a game is available to buy in my country than i will purchase it, if i can buy a series, movie. ext i will.

if due to corporate exclusiveness i cannot purchase it legitimately then i would consider piracy.

 

[Playful Pony]

if it's impossible for me to get it in other ways... If this game isn't made anymore, and no copy of it is available used. I've often wondered why for example Origin doesn't put all kinds of old games EA own IP's for on there. I can imagine loads of old titles from them and others that I'd love to be able to buy and play, titles that are not available on places like Steam, Origin, Gamers Gate og GoG...

If the game is not available anywhere, then I'll try and find a torrent... I'd rather buy it, but if I can't buy it anywhere I will, as an entitled consumer, use a torrent to get a hold of it.

Other than this, no I don't think piracy is OK. I also don't think "I don't own that console" is an excuse to for example use an emulator to play a certain game. Again, if the console and/or game is no longer possible to buy anywhere, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.. Same with music and movies.

 

[Conza]

EDIT: poll option 2 should read: 'No, never because it is morally wrong'

Can piracy be justified? I suppose for the law it's all 'black and white'. But, as a community, do you think some reasons for piracy can be accepted? There is right, there is wrong and then there is a big gray area. To name a few examples of what I consider 'gray':

(Media = movies, series, music, games; so we are clear on interpretation I am using)
- The media is not being released in your country
- The media is being censored or otherwise is inferior in your country
- The media is released at unfairly high prices (I'm looking at you Australia)
- The media is being released with (intrusive) DRM or other kind of regional restrictions that makes the media unplayable for you

Personally, I think all of the above examples are a good arguments. Even so, I wouldn't start pirating just yet. If I really want something and it's not being released in my country, I would try to import it (up to a certain price). Same goes for censored/inferior products. If I would be faced with high prices, I would just wait until a (Steam) sale. And if the games have crappy DRM (*cough* Ubisoft *cough*), I'll just blacklist the whole company and stop caring about their games. But I can understand if people want to use 'alternative means' of acquiring the media in these cases.

I think it'd be very hard to completely eliminate piracy, but minimizing it to virtually non-existence is a possibility.

In my opinion, it's virtually always justified, from the perspective that its the market's way of correcting imbalances within itself.

Let's take any modern show shown in the US right now, new show, it comes out on Tuesday nights, the rest of the world can't see it, so someone from the US puts it on a torrent site, and hey presto, the whole world can see the same episode within merely hours of it airing in the US. What this does, is then later when the other countries go to air it on their channel, no one watches it, and hopefully they get the idea 'well gee, if we take [insert unexceptable amount of time to wait] to air this show, it'll have already been watched by our potential audience, and we won't get any ratings on it, that's bad, we should try to air it as fast as physically possible so we do get the ratings' and then piracy will be minimized.

Because if I know the show will be on tomorrow night, I am much less inclined to find an alternative means to see it, but if it'll be many days, weeks, or even months, I want to see it, so I'll investigate other ways to do that.

I think this can be extended to games, but it becomes more difficult with DRM, constant online, ect, and in most cases the piracy says only a couple of things 'I wanted a demo, you didn't give me one so I pirated then didn't buy the game out of spite/didn't like it' or 'its too expensive, so I pirated it' or less common 'I hate your evil company, so I pirated it, then didn't play it'.

 

[Zipa]

Just watch both the Jimquisitions on piracy , Jim really does make great points both for and against (one in each video)

 

[Entitled]

Most cases of piracy can be justified. Copyright should be about ensuring that entertainment willcontinue to be made. As long as the amount of money flowing into the industry is stable, there is no need to control how much content people are downloading beyond the ones that they are paying for.

In fact, more freedom in letting people to become familiaar with all releases at their own pace, and later become paying customers of their favorite ones, would help in rewarding quality.

The only grey area is people who don't pay for ANY digital content, but even then, I say gray area, rather than evil, because even if those people are freeloaders, there is no proof that they are harming anyone, or that they would otherwise be customers.

I mean, if I read lots of webcomics without donating to their creator, or watch all TV anime series without ever buying a blu-ray boxset, am I harming them by choosing the free option?

The only difference between these and legally copy-limited media, is just a matter of tradition, for some reason, game developers or musicians feel entitled to limit the number of copies made, thanks to their medium's history of being able to sell them as as physical goods, while other mediums grew in the tradition of allowing everyone to get a free copy, and acknowledging the fact that freeloaders exist and there is nothing wrong with them.

 

[4RM3D]

Without getting into too much, yes it can be justified sometimes. But! It is far, far easier for it to be rationalized, which is what most people do.

Interesting choice of words, maybe I should have used 'rationalize' instead of 'justify'. Although 'justify' seems like a natural extension of 'rationalize'.

I think it could be argued as a form of protest. For example, ebooks for my Kindle cost almost as much as a paperback copy, and in some cases cost more. I stick to the free and cheap books I find, but I feel that one could argue that pirating books is a form of protest against the insane pricing set by companies when all you really need is an author and an editor. That said, I don't condone piracy.

EDIT: I have "pirated" some ebooks as well, but that was to save money buying a second copy since I already own a hard copy.

Same thing is happening with Steam. The digital copies are usually more expensive that the physical counterparts. I would almost think that there is an angry mob of retailers outside of Valve HQ with pitchforks ready to storm Valve if Valve start selling new games for less than the retail price.

 

[Mark Benedict]

If it is impossible to obtain legally, pirate away.

If it is nearly impossible to legally obtain... my logic falls apart here. All these are legally piracy that doesn't fall under the fist category.

*Functional old cartridge games and working systems are hard to come by. They are available, but it's rather impractical and can get pricey.

*Limited edition digital content on physical media is another snag. My thought process is along the lines of, "I'd buy it if I could buy it from you (the artist)." Collectors can be strange at times, and retail has a certain comfort to it. I'd love to hear an instrumental version of the album "Crack the Skye", but unfortunately, I'm roughly 3 years and I'm guessing ~$50 short at this point.

*Old software in general. I, for instance, would like to play System Shock 1&2. I've heard good things about them, but they were a little before my time. Sorry for being born late? $250+ each for a game that very well might not work on my system is ridiculous. Make it available someplace; some of the people pirating the software might be more than willing to pay for it. I was only slightly disappointed that the Thief series doesn't work on my computer. I'll get it working eventually. Not 100% clear on how, but I will.

 

[RivFader86]

Nope Piracy can't be justified but excused...kinda

- The media is not being released in your country - see No3.

- The media is being censored or otherwise is inferior in your country - Not the Publishers problem, with that i could justify pirateing movies here in germany because i don't like the dub and some games because they cut down on the violence

- The media is released at unfairly high prices (I'm looking at you Australia) - Again not the publishers problem (i'm talking about excuseing piracy in generall one can of course "i pirate this because i couldn't otherwise afford it" as a personal excuse

- The media is being released with (intrusive) DRM or other kind of regional restrictions that makes the media unplayable for you - Then don't use it simple as that, best example happened to me yesterday i went to ikea and at the register they asked me for my zip code so i had two options, give it to them or say no...going "no no no no NOOOOOO you no get mah info" grab my Jansö lamp and run away without paying is however not a legal/excuseable/justifiable option. (i am aware of the fact that something like a zip code (without even giving my full name) is vastly different than the ammount of information gathered by Origin for example but the point remains the same). I don't think DRM is an excuse at all since you only have to deal with it really in multiplayer games/modes which (as far as i know) you can't crack anyways so you have to buy it either way and if you just want to play a single player game or only play in single player mode nothing stops you from buying the game and then use a crack to circumvent the DRM