Poll: Can someone tell me how this is unanswerable??
- Thread starter skywalkerlion
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Well your missing the point, but I suppose it must make a sound. Just as some people can clap with one hand quite loudly (Greg Irwin).
yes but i just said we can't PROVE it by logic. so even though that is impeccable logic it's going on a basis that other such proof exists or that it is in itself proof.jamesworkshop said:
as far as that goes it's just words and we may in fact just be some compressed data in some creature's brain that is having a terrifying dream of playing god...
that said i think humans and our very actions are terrifying, and thus i am hateful of our very race... god damn us all.
The question the proverb is asking is, does reality as we know it exist, or is reality only in our head? Cause if it was all in our head, then a tree that you didn't see fall down wouldn't make any sound, because it wouldn't exist until your mind manifested it.skywalkerlion said:
Sorry for the thread Necro, but this really burns my chaps.The Bandit said:
I didn't take a degree in Philosophy to be told I have bad "argument technique" by someone who seems to have come by their conception of such a thing on internet message boards. Go look up Rene Descartes, you little wiseguy.
And if you haven't heard of such an influential thinker, perhaps you shouldn't be calling people an idiot.
I believe they say you can't answer that question, because while it makes sense that it would you can't prove it.
Which part of your post is supposed to convince me that you're right: that you have a degree in Philosophy or that you referenced someone? Not that I'm complaining. If you had actually responded to me, I would have to respond back to a really old post that I no longer give a shit about.Mr Wednesday said:
EDIT: I guess I do somewhat care about it. Blugh. I'll try to make myself a little clearer.
I'm not saying skepticism is bad. How the hell does anyone learn anything except by being a skeptic? New knowledge is gained by questioning old knowledge. What I was criticizing was the notion that nothing in the world is provable. Simply because human have the ability to cover their ears and shake their heads shouldn't be a reason to dismiss proof (like historical documents in my previous example). I suppose with the giant shithole that philosophy is, that still bugs you, but probably not as much. If this is even what you assumed I meant.
And, for the future: No one gives a damn about you or your accomplishments. This is the Internet. You're probably a fourteen year old kid. Don't bring it up, because I'm just going to take you less seriously. inb4 "i don't care if you take me seriously or not" If you didn't want me to take you seriously, you wouldn't have mentioned your degree.
It's unanswerable because we could define reality in two ways:skywalkerlion said:
Reality is something that exists, and everything is a part of it.
-or-
What we conceive to be Reality is just what our mind tell us it is, or Reality is all in the mind.
The reason the question is unanswerable, is because it is impossible to tell what Reality actually is.
It's too late for philsophical debates, but just remember Schrodinger he thought that everything can exist at once until it is measured and look up his experiment with cats if you don't know about this... can't be bothered to explain at the moment. So in other words his theory is yes the tree does and it doesn't make a sound at the same time if noone is about to hear it.
Therefore everyone's right, give yourselves a pat on the back!
Therefore everyone's right, give yourselves a pat on the back!
I believe the real question, spoken by Herman Toothrot, is: "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, what color is the tree?"
Actually, by my definition, no it does not make a sound. Because a sound is, to me at least, something that I hear. Since no one is around to hear anything, there can be no sound. However, there is a noise. I define "noise" as molecules transmitting kinetic energy via a longitudinal wave which is capable of causing my eardrums to to vibrate enough for me to notice. As such it does not matter if I'm physically there or not, there is a noise because the impact of the tree would send out a shockwave of a magnitude capable of disturbing surrounding molecules to a degree where I would notice. Now that's just my definition, so it does not apply to everyone.
Of course, the real question to ask is: If a man is talking, and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?
Of course, the real question to ask is: If a man is talking, and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?
Oh christ.The Bandit said:
"You're probably just a fourteen year old kid"? And you base this on what evidence? Presumably the cameras you've installed in my home.
I made a tiny, tiny remark based on some shiz I've read, stuff that happens to be massively influential, stuf which goes to great lengths to explain itself, is decidedly complex and well regarded, and you decided to call me an "idiot" for it, off the cuff, dismissing me enitirely without even trying to engage. I wasn't having a debate with you in my last post, I was calling you a jerk.
It's more of the argument whether it's a bio-centric universe or not, and that is still undecided.
You're applying physics and logic to a philosophical question.
Even the smartasses who say "Actually it only makes sound waves" do not grasp the crux of the question.
It is to with the way we perceive the world and about how we relate to it.
If a man is 12 foot tall he is a giant. From our perspective. But to him we are little.
"Sound" from the point of the question has little to do with sound waves as much as it does with human perspective.
Even the smartasses who say "Actually it only makes sound waves" do not grasp the crux of the question.
It is to with the way we perceive the world and about how we relate to it.
If a man is 12 foot tall he is a giant. From our perspective. But to him we are little.
"Sound" from the point of the question has little to do with sound waves as much as it does with human perspective.
Sounds are vibrations transformed into what we call sound.
If no-one is around then it can't be changed into sound, so in a way it doesn't.
(Working with very vague memory of science tape watched as kid, probably wrong)
If no-one is around then it can't be changed into sound, so in a way it doesn't.
(Working with very vague memory of science tape watched as kid, probably wrong)
I set up some cameras in the woods and I confirmed that no, they don't make a sound when they fall over. Or maybe my camera doesn't have a microphone.