Poll: Can you hate gay culture and not be homophobic?

[remnant_phoenix]

Loving my two gay aunts didn't stop me from hating Will and Grace. (Always trying to be open minded I gave it a shot but after a while I couldn't stand those characters. Same thing with 2 and a Half Men, just not enough interesting to distract from one dimensional and stupid they all were)

Of course.

I've been viciously attacked by an anti-straight... yes, those exist. She spewed some dumbness and slapped me (because I'm straight and obviously deserve to be slapped), then knocked off back to her "OMG GAIZ" group she was hanging out with, who were planning their next gay rights rally, who applauded her work. My crime? ...Couldn't tell ya. I was sitting in a corner with a book.

I don't care who you want to sleep with. But it certainly made me pissed beyond all fury at "gay culture" for a bit there.

I read something about that a few years back. Did she call you "breeder"?
I had a similar experience involving race. The only black kid I knew growing up was crazy and annoying and pissed me off so much I once decked him with my backpack. I know now that there were a LOT of things wrong with the kid but I was always being teased by EVERYONE back then, so I was in no mood to take his shit. I never judged black people as a whole by his actions, but I sure disliked that particular individual.

I've been called a "breeder" by a gay guy before. He was generally friendly to me, so I think he meant it in a friendly/joking way, but yes, as I understand it, "breeder" is a term of general disdain that that gay community uses for straight people.

 

[Emergent System]

Meh, I'm fine with discriminating against cultures. There are a lot of cultures (especially sub-cultures) out there that are, frankly, fucking retarded. As long as you keep in mind that the individual member of a culture is not the same as the culture itself, I think it's fine.

I know some gay people who are part of the, in my opinion, disgusting stereotypical gay culture, and they piss me off. I also know a couple of others; one you can just barely tell he's gay (I ended up asking him if he was after knowing him for a while, and he confirmed it, but it was really subtle and took a while to notice), and the other guy is very feminine but not in an obnoxious way, which I am fine with.

There are a lot of parts of popular gay culture that are just plain idiotic; and while I'm all for them being allowed to do those things, I'm also going to defend myself when I attack them for behaviour in what I consider to be often idiotic, self-destructive ways.

This topic reminds me of this:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/gaypride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays,351/

[edit] wow, this post comes off as really harsh - I didn't mean it to. Oh well, gotta run now no time to edit it.

 

[Yopaz]

A lot of you claim you "don't flaunt" your sexuality. I'll tell you, unless you actively closet yourself (by never being seen with your partners in public, by never describing someone as your wife or girlfriend, by never talking about your children. In short, by deliberately hiding your romantic or personal life altogether, and even then you're not really closeting because no-one will ever assume you're gay without evidence) then you are "flaunting" your sexuality. The reason you don't see yourself as taking part in a "culture" is because that culture is the one we all live in, it's mainstream mass culture.

Exactly. Few people seem to complain about the constant, unrelenting barrage of heterosexuality our culture throws at us, because it's constant and unrelenting enough to be considered normal.

The reason we don't complain about the straight culture is that there are no parades where straight people show their pride in sexuality. There are more parades to celebrate homosexuals than there are to celebrate war veterans. Even being against war I think that's messed up.
I also find it annoying when straight people feel like they have to mention their straight in every sentence or make their life all about their sexuality. Really, I don't care if someone is gay or straight as long as they're able to shut up about it for 5 minutes.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

So, are people who like me who don't automatically hate gay people for being gay but don't like the 'in your face' attitude surrounding a large part of that culture homophobic? Or is it acceptable to draw that distinction?

Absolutely not, absolutely yes.

I've seen my fair share of gay pastime activities (Easterf**k - OOOh, do come, it will be lovely! Here are the pigs, there are the bears and over here we have... WHAT THE HELL AM I LOOKING AT? WHAT AM I DOING HERE? MY HORIZON ISN'T EXPANDED, IT JUST IMPLODED!).

Let's put it this way - if all my gay (male) friends were so "out there" and so "in your face", I couldn't be with them without feeling the urge to constantly crinch or shower or wear gloves. All my gay friends are my friends for various reasons, none of which would be "because they're gay!".

So, as usual, what they do in their bedrooms, toilets, basements or on their kitchen tables really is none of my business, as long as I don't find strange curly hair in the salad.

Gay folks are just as intelligent, wonderful, selfish and annoying as heterosexual folks, there just seems to be a peculiar difference in emotional matters. That can be handled just fine. I personally believe it is actually important to draw a line, because I cannot recommend anyone to partake in an Easterf**k event without being seriously inclined to get peed on... or worse.

 

[Idocreating]

I must admit, the whole campness and openly flaunting your sexuality, to a point of shoving it other people's faces is the part of gay culture that irks me. The fact that my brother exhibits next to none of it is probably a big part of why family and friends were so cool with it when he came out.

 

[CAMDAWG]

Most definitely. Although I think to some extent your use of the term "gay culture" might be a bit of a misnomer. I think I get what you mean, but I'd prefer to use the term "stereotypical gay man/woman", but that's just my personal opinion. I digress.

I'm not a huge fan of the whole "flaunting it" thing, but I'm fairly repressed just by my nature, and straight people "flaunting it" makes me just as uncomfortable. Of the gay people I know, there are only two that I know well enough to properly comment on. One of them is your stereotypical gay guy, who talks about fashion etc, and seems to make a big deal out of his homosexuality, and the other guy doesn't build his persona around it. Guess which one I like, and which one I don't.

That being said, I think if anybody, straight, gay, bi, or anything else, builds most of their personality around something as insignificant as their sexuality, they're clearly lacking in other departments, and aren't really worth my time.

 

[drisky]

Hating a certain kind of personality is not homophobia. However if you are judging someone for being to butch or to effeminate I would consider it sexist. If you don't like them for being slutty thats fine, as long as it is the same for others. It is all about fairness.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Well since there's no such thing as 'gay culture' except in the minds of homophobes, I'd say yes.

I know so many gay people. One of my favourite pubs is known as the best place for homosexual couples, I played at the AIDS awareness Gay Talent Show thing in my town last year (I was the only straight competitor) and a whole big bunch of my friends are gay.

Not one of them likes the 'flamboyant rainbow sparkles' gay stereotype, but according to them at least it's not a culture, it's just how some people in the community behave. To draw a comparison, it would be like saying that PC Gamers are exactly the same as Console Gamers, they like all the same stuff and can all be classed together, just because they fit under the borader label of 'Gamer Culture.' Although there is such a thing as 'gamer culture' it's gotten so subdivided within itself that the label is meaningless when compared to 'PC Gamer' or 'Console Gamer.' The same is true of 'Gay Culture.' The overarching term may still be there, but if you're a part of the group then you realise that it's too broad.

So, what I am laboriously trying to say is this

Gay Culture is too broadly defined to say you hate it. You can hate a facet of it: 'flamboyantly out, in your face Gay and Proud rainbow sparkle-dust,' and not be homophobic, just like I can hate people who engage in PDAs all the time and not be heterophobic, but if you hate all gay culture without distinction then you are homophbic.

Also, it depends on why you hate them. I might hate certain facets of black culture, but only if they are parts of street-hoodlum, terrorising and mugging people black culture. This doesn't make me racist because I don't hate them because they are black, I hate them because they are street-hoodlum, terrorising etcs. If you hate them because they are homosexual, they you are homophobic.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I would think so. Honestly I don't see the connection between having a sexual preference towards your own gender and being overtly flamboyant anyways.

Also this thread reminded me of this. It's a bit tongue in cheek because it's the onion obviously but it brings up an interesting point on what is publicly perceived as "gay culture"
http://www.theonion.com/articles/gaypride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays,351/

 

[Belaam]

Can you hate the Westboro Baptist Church (those nuts who picket soldier's funerals) and not be anti-theist?

Can you hate a female politician/pundit and not be sexist?

Can you hate a President and not be racist?

Can you be a player and not be a chauvinist?

Can you lie to yourself about your anti-theist, sexist, racist, and chauvinistic ways?

I'd say "yes" to all of the above. It is certainly possible to have zero interest in going to a leather and lace gay pride festival and not be homophobic. It's also possible to have a double standard about gay and straight public displays of affection or sexuality and not realize that you are homophobic.

I don't know you nearly well enough to tell which applies to you.

 

[Thaa'ir]

Flamers are hilarious, to me at least. I love my flamer friends. They're sassy, loud, and their wit could cut throats. They're the perfect people to have back you up in a verbal war with some random annoying girl or douchebag.

Me? It's interesting. I'm just a huge nerd. I love DnD, video games, languages, history, cultural studies, and academic study of religion. In the groups of friends where other gay people are present, these are the traits my friends know me by and to them, my sexuality is unremarkable. In the groups of friends that consist entirely of straight guys (i.e. the overwhelming majority of my friends), I am a token gay guy whose sexuality is tagged as an important part of his identity. My friends all love gay people and utterly despise homophobes, but they kind of slapped a label onto me...but I use it to my advantage for humor.

I guess one thing is this: straight guys talk often about this "I am okay with gay guys as long as it isn't a big part of their identity" attitude.

The thing is, being gay is simply a part of someone's identity and has a huge impact on their life, whether they make a big deal about it or not. Homophobia, I promise you, is still virulent and thriving. If you don't make it a part of your identity, they certainly will the second they catch on. Even liberals, as I mentioned before, might do so in a benign manner, in the same way they possibly would gently tease the single Hispanic kid in the group. I've seen it happen with people of every racial, sexual, and religious group under the sun. I suppose most people just run with it.

Sometimes, even for those who don't care, it gets too much. When I was fifteen, one of my closest friend spent month after month making unrelenting gay jokes that he did not end even after I asked him to tone it down repeatedly. One day, after nearly ten straight hours of that bullshit during DnD, I slapped him right across the face. He was angry, and then felt bad, and then the gay jokes fell to a much, much, much more reasonable level.

My apologies, this post is poorly organized as I have slept little lately, and most of it in class. I understand why flamers or gay people who seem to make a big deal of their sexuality annoy you. I really do. But what I am trying to say is two things: there is a reason why and they are not the only, or even the worst, offenders.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

A guy in my wow guild said to me 'By the way I'm bi' in the middle of a conversation about Fallout Vegas or something completely unrelated. I said 'Oh Okay' in a 'wtf' way and he flipped his lid and said 'Oh my god everyone reacts like that! Blargh Blargh!'
I responded in a bemused manner 'Erm if I suddenly said ''I'm straight'' in the middle of a conversation what would you say? I don't care what your sexuality is mate.'
He kind of went quiet after that :|

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Yes, in the same way you can hate haggis/bagpipes and not hate the Scottish.

 

[peruvianskys]

Examples of heterosexuality being flaunted:

Beer commercials
Christian marriage seminars
Any conversation with a fraternity member
Any girl who dresses to attract men
Any guy who dresses to attract girls
Underwear commercials
Every sitcom you've ever seen
Every Christian church you've ever been to
Homecoming parades
Every comic strip you've ever read
Straight couples holding hands
Straight couples making out in public
Insurance commercials

That's just a few off the top of my head. I'm gay and I'm very, very "straight-acting," not because I'm in the closet but because I just don't find myself being part of that culture. With that said, I think heterosexuals do not understand quite how "flaunted" heterosexuality can seem when you're gay. Everything a homosexual encounters in their lives, from TV to books and magazines to the behavior of strangers is 100% STRAIGHT, no exceptions. Sure, there are gay kids who go out and buy tight pants or force a lisp, but aren't there straight kids who go out and buy wife beaters or sexually suggestive tee-shirts, or who try and lower their voice or talk differently to attract women? Everyone does it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with homosexuals being open and vocal about their sexuality, because odds are they aren't being any louder about it than most straights are about theirs, if you look at it objectively.

With that said, there are definitely some annoying as hell gay people and I can't stand that because they do give the community a bad name. Remember how Chris Rock had that skit about black people vs. niggers, where he compared intelligent, confident, and reasonable African-Americans with the blacks who just fulfill the racial stereotype to a tee? Well that's how I feel about the extremely annoying homosexuals; there's gay people, and then there's fags. Just be careful that you don't lump in gay kids who are doing the "gay version" of what straight kids do every day as raging homoqueers.

 

[WOPR]

Yes and No
People will say you're homophobic, but maybe you're just like me and getting kinda tired of how high and mighty the gay-rights supporters are getting...

Don't get me wrong, I am ALL for gay rights, ALL for PEOPLE rights, and to me people are people

They just seem to be getting it in their heads that gay people are the ONLY people that get bullied

and for that people call me homophobic... because I'm sick of their bigoted supporters.
(Note: I know that not all are like that... but considering where I live it's possibly worse here)

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Funny, in chemistry class I learned about hydrophobic chemicals and chemical reactions. Tell me how a chemical can be afraid of water...

Soap has a hydrophilic end and a hydrophobic end. Hydrophilic are attracted to water, hydrophobic are repulsed by water. The hydrophobic end buries itself in fat/dirt to escape the water, pulling the dirt/fat away from the fabrics and putting it into soloution, with the hydrophilic ends pointing outwards.

Hence why rabies(hydrophobia) means you cannot take in water, despite needing it.

Phobia - Fear/Repulsion
Philia - Love/Attraction

 

[EvilPicnic]

'Hate' is a strong word. To be uninterested/bored by gay culture is not homophobic, to 'hate' it probably is.

 

[MeatMachine]

I don't hate black Americans, I just don't like hardly anything that they hold as their own subculture. This does not make me a racist.