Poll: Can you hate gay culture and not be homophobic?

[thylasos]

About 80% of the gay people I know hate the stereotypical culture they're supposed to fall into, and will actively avoid camp gays/butch lesbians, in fairness.

I've no fondness for camp myself, but I love my friends. Their sexuality doesn't really enter into it.

 

[DarksideFlame]

Probably, but good fucking luck to you to tell the people you know and convince them your not homophobic

 

[Joos]

I'd say yes. People can get really annoying when they constantly shove their lifestyle in your face. Like the vegetarian that takes every single opportunity to tell someone that they're a vegetarian. It's like "good for you...do you want a cookie or something?"

So that means you are a vegophobic vegist. No cookie for you!

 

[Thaluikhain]

A lot of you claim you "don't flaunt" your sexuality. I'll tell you, unless you actively closet yourself (by never being seen with your partners in public, by never describing someone as your wife or girlfriend, by never talking about your children. In short, by deliberately hiding your romantic or personal life altogether, and even then you're not really closeting because no-one will ever assume you're gay without evidence) then you are "flaunting" your sexuality. The reason you don't see yourself as taking part in a "culture" is because that culture is the one we all live in, it's mainstream mass culture.

Exactly. Few people seem to complain about the constant, unrelenting barrage of heterosexuality our culture throws at us, because it's constant and unrelenting enough to be considered normal.

 

[Yopaz]

I know a few gay guys, none that flaunt it but it's totally obvious right from the start. It doesn't bother me and I'm happy I don't hate people because of what they are. Though we did make some gay jokes over the beer he had...

Yeah, if you don't know how to pronounce that right (also kinda if you do know) ordering a big cold böner can't be easy.

OT: sure it's possible to hate the gay community without being homophobic. When someone is really in your face about something I'd say it's obnoxious. I'm very straight, but I don't plan on making a straight parade for flaunting my sexuality because I am sooooo proud of being able to reproduce.

 

[Angerwing]

When my friend came out as being gay, he changed his personality to fit the stereotype. I hate that, I think it's weak-willed and stupid. It really bothers me, because he was a really cool guy before, and we all suspected he was gay anyway. Now that he has come out, he's really annoying to hang out with.

So no, I tend to dislike anyone who changes their personality to fit their particular social niche.

 

[hoobajoob]

evilthecat hit the nail on the head. Gender and sexuality can still get you killed in some places, and fired/evicted/ostracized in others. And you lot are griping about having to watch a shirtless man gyrate his pelvis? Talk about privilege. What you fail to grasp is that the flamboyance is a byproduct of being kept under the thumb of the homophobic pricks who make up a good chunk of our society. Expect pride parades to continue until all the old farts die, or until the rest of us shout them down every time they start waggling their canes at those dang queers. If you aren't helping on that front you bring the the flaunting on yourself.

I don't give a damn about pride parades and will almost definitely never go to one (though I sometimes wonder if I might feel differently if I was gay). But I don't get upset about it the way so many people in this thread do because I want there to be more variety in this drab gray world. Why the hell would I want everyone to be 'normal'? Normal is boring. We throw millions of dollars at entertainers - artists, athletes, actors, etc. - because they're not like the rest of us. The truth is that most of us (myself included) are not special. We could be, but we aren't because we all talk, dress, think and behave too closely. All this group identity conformity bullshit makes most people teeth-gratingly tedious to listen to. Honestly, every single one of you in here griping about having people's gayness "shoved in my face" or "rammed down my throat" (interesting choice of words there lads!) are saying the exact same boring things using the exact same boring sentences I've heard or read a hundred boring times before. Nothing new, nothing different, just repeating these same tired cliched lines over and over again until it starts sounding more like some kind of secret password for the International Dullard Club than independent thought. Perhaps because that's exactly what it is.

Without weird people the internet would only be half its size and your life would the poorer for it. I'll take a human train wreck over a 'normal' person any day of the week!

 

[SyphonX]

I've seen many gays that are literally 'heterophobic', and use terms like "breeders", etc to differentiate heterosexuals as another class.

I'm not homophobic, and I go by the philosophy of 'live and let live', but I have my issues with some aspects of "gay culture".

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I hate gaming "culture", and I'm a gamer. I think that answers your question.

However, the "stop shoving it in our faces" idea a lot of straight people have towards gay people annoys me, because its often aimed at someone who isn't doing that at all. You have to take the situation and switch it around, pretend they are straight, and if the situation wouldn't bother you then, you're homophobic.

-------

Someone mentioning they are gay, or a guy saying "I'm going out with my boyfriend tonight" is NOT shoving it in your face.

Two guys holding hands in the street, is NOT shoving it in your face.

Gay pride marches are NOT shoving it in your face. If that's the case you have to label every single parade ever as doing that.

Hollywood embracing gay relationships so you start seeing them in movies is NOT shoving it in your face.

A guy being feminine or camp is NOT shoving it in your face. Same with a woman being manly. This is the biggest one I hear from homophobes. That is just how they are, it's their personality. The only people who pretend to be this way are teens who have recently come out and think that's the only way they will get accepted in the gay community. They find out they are hugely wrong and eventually start being themselves.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

When my friend came out as being gay, he changed his personality to fit the stereotype. I hate that, I think it's weak-willed and stupid. It really bothers me, because he was a really cool guy before, and we all suspected he was gay anyway. Now that he has come out, he's really annoying to hang out with.

So no, I tend to dislike anyone who changes their personality to fit their particular social niche.

There are one of two things that have happened with your friend.

Most likely, he's at a stage of needing acceptance from the gay community. This happens mostly with teens who come out, but also sometimes people who are a bit older. He thinks that to really "belong" in the gay community he has to fit the stereotype. If this is the case he will eventually grow out of it, realize he doesn't need to do that, and start being himself again.

Otherwise, (and this is also quite common) he was suppressing his personality while he was in the closet to seem more typically straight, as a way to hide his homosexuality further. If this is the case he isn't putting it on now, he was putting it on before, and now he's being himself.

You will have a much better idea of which one this is from your time spent with him

Also, real male femininity and female masculinity are generally not something people put on, usually its very naturally how their personality is. This is why there is evidence to suggest that gay men use more female areas of the brain and lesbians use more of the male areas. The very extreme variants of this I imagine would be transgenderism. Likewise, this doesn't mean all gay people act like the opposite gender, quite the contrary, personality comes largely from nurturing factors too. There are plenty of gay people who you would have no clue were gay unless they told you, but stereotypes exist for a reason, they are just a very bloated and exagerrated example of the average gay person.

 

[Angerwing]

When my friend came out as being gay, he changed his personality to fit the stereotype. I hate that, I think it's weak-willed and stupid. It really bothers me, because he was a really cool guy before, and we all suspected he was gay anyway. Now that he has come out, he's really annoying to hang out with.

So no, I tend to dislike anyone who changes their personality to fit their particular social niche.

There are one of two things that have happened with your friend.

Most likely, he's at a stage of needing acceptance from the gay community. This happens mostly with teens who come out, but also sometimes people who are a bit older. He thinks that to really "belong" in the gay community he has to fit the stereotype. If this is the case he will eventually grow out of it, realize he doesn't need to do that, and start being himself again.

Otherwise, (and this is also quite common) he was suppressing his personality while he was in the closet to seem more typically straight, as a way to hide his homosexuality further. If this is the case he isn't putting it on now, he was putting it on before, and now he's being himself.

You will have a much better idea of which one this is from your time spent with him

Also, gay femininity and lesbian masculinity are generally not something people put on, usually its very naturally how their personality is. This is why there is evidence to suggest that gay men use more female areas of the brain and lesbians use more of the male areas. The very extreme variants of this I imagine would be transgenderism. Likewise, this doesn't mean all gay people act like the opposite gender, quite the contrary, personality comes largely from nurturing factors too. There are plenty of gay people who you would have no clue were gay unless they told you, but stereotypes exist for a reason, they are just a very bloated and exagerrated example of the average gay person.

It's definitely the first one. I've known the guy for 11 years, and he's currently one of my flatmates. I know his personality pretty well, and he acted fairly effeminate before he came out. His favourite artist was Pink, his favouraite TV show was Charmed, and it was pretty obvious he was gay. He's still a pretty cool dude when it's just the lads, but once we step out of the apartment, it's all limp wrists and skipping around. Drives me nuts.

And he's 20 years old, so he's not just a kid.

 

[octafish]

Hmm, let's apply this to a different standard. Can you hate African culture and not be racist? Yes, I don't like gangster-wannabees and rappers but I could care less about their skin.

That makes me sad. So sad. African culture? I don't know where to begin, but I will say this... There is a great big continent south of Europe, it has many different cultures, vibrant lively and complex, and hardly any of it is about gangster-wannabees and rappers.

 

[ms_sunlight]

I agree, people being "in your face" is obnoxious. Funny how so many people tend to see gay people just getting on with their lives in their general vicinity as being "in your face", though.

 

[Jadak]

Yes.

Hating gays is well, hating gays.

Hating gay culture is hating a culture normally associated with gays.

So yeah, no reason you can't be specific in your hate and focus on one. Rather easy to not care who's boinking who yet be appalled by a person's life-style outside of their sex-life.

 

[Exerzet]

You know what time it is, kids? It's definition time!

Homo-phobia: The irrational fear of homosexuality
Hating "Gay culture": Having a strong dislike of a "Gay" behavioral pattern.

Examine the two statements above, and you'll have your answers. You're welcome ^_^

 

[NoNameMcgee]

It's definitely the first one. I've known the guy for 11 years, and he's currently one of my flatmates. I know his personality pretty well, and he acted fairly effeminate before he came out. His favourite artist was Pink, his favouraite TV show was Charmed, and it was pretty obvious he was gay. He's still a pretty cool dude when it's just the lads, but once we step out of the apartment, it's all limp wrists and skipping around. Drives me nuts.

And he's 20 years old, so he's not just a kid.

Well then, give it a while, and he will almost certainly go back to how he used to be. Like I said, its usually with teens but also happens with people who are a bit older.

But I gotta wonder if your annoyance with men being feminine is exclusive to your friend (which I understand, since he's intentionally not being himself) or if it branches out to all guys who are, including those who naturally are. Because that would definitely be a kind of intolerance.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Yes, of course you can. Whether a person is straight or gay is there own business and I've never thought worse about someone for their sexuality. That said, the whole 'screaming queen' brand of behavior that some gay guys exhibit *cough*Louie Spence*cough* does grate on my nerves somewhat. This cannot be construed as homophobia however. The vast majority of gay people I know also hate this style of behavior, and I'd love to see the argument that says because of this dislike most of my gay friends are homophobic.

Bottom line: dislike for certain section of a community does not imply dislike for the entire community.

 

[Angerwing]

It's definitely the first one. I've known the guy for 11 years, and he's currently one of my flatmates. I know his personality pretty well, and he acted fairly effeminate before he came out. His favourite artist was Pink, his favouraite TV show was Charmed, and it was pretty obvious he was gay. He's still a pretty cool dude when it's just the lads, but once we step out of the apartment, it's all limp wrists and skipping around. Drives me nuts.

And he's 20 years old, so he's not just a kid.

Well then, give it a while, and he will almost certainly go back to how he used to be. Like I said, its usually with teens but also happens with people who are a bit older.

But I gotta wonder if your annoyance with men being feminine is exclusive to your friend (which I understand, since he's intentionally not being himself) or if it branches out to all guys who are, including those who naturally are. Because that would definitely be a kind of intolerance.

No, my gripe is specifically with how he changed his personality. It's very superficial. I would have the same problem if someone decided he was a gamer, and wore coke-bottle glasses, pocket protectors, and the whole nerd stereotype. It's the change, not what he changed into.

I know another gay guy, who is extremely effeminate. I don't really care about that though, as I didn't know him before.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

No, my gripe is specifically with how he changed his personality. It's very superficial. I would have the same problem if someone decided he was a gamer, and wore coke-bottle glasses, pocket protectors, and the whole nerd stereotype. It's the change, not what he changed into.

Alright I thought that was probably the case Sorry, just a little protective since I have lots of effeminate qualities myself, although I'm not actually gay, just very comfortable with embracing my femininity, probably something to do with having a transexual father. So it annoys me when the alpha males get pissed off with the girly guys.