Poll: Capitalism or Communism?

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Captain Pancake

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capitalism works with human nature. Communism is ideologically opposed to human egocentrism - the only countries where communism took hold were either culturally prepared for it (eg China through confucianism) or have it imposed upon them by a dictatorship that uses it as a tool for control. People want stuff, basic economics. Capitalism gives them that stuff and builds a society out of it. Simples.
 

Luke3184

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Jun 4, 2011
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Capitalism

Although to expand on my point would require a (Legendary) Dragon plate Shield with +100% flame resistance.
 

Xman490

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May 29, 2010
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Communism, because at the end of the day, everyone gets to eat. Right?

Okay, there's the USSR, but it was fake Communism with overpaid, overpowered leaders.
 

CrazyDave DC

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Apr 14, 2010
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Simply put, communism isn't even an option. It's so awkward and artificial that it can never respond to the demands of the consumer. Also, given the virtual lack of incentive to excel in a communist society, whatever does get produced is so poorly made that it was basically a waste of money to produce in the first place.

Capitalism, on the other hand, is essentially the only way a society can manage itself without fear of ultimately collapsing. People actually have motivation to get ahead and can achieve things on their own merits; earning rewards through hard word. Consumers essentially vote with their dollar and ultimately decide what gets produced. Capitalism goes hand in hand with democracy in that both are rooted in individual freedoms and the power each person holds to accomplish goals.

Yet, capitalism has a very dark side to it and, I believe, must be regulated so as to prevent the worst excesses of the system from occurring. Time and time again, it has been shown that money can only extend one's quality of life so far and is not an end in of itself. There's a reason why, reportedly, the happiest countries in the world are the ones with excellent social safety nets. Everyone should have the same equality of opportunity and the dignity of every individual ought to respected. That poverty continues to be a major issue in such wealthy countries is indicative of a "not my problem" mentality, when really we should all help each other out in times of need. Perhaps this sounds especially socialist, but I believe no one deserves to wallow on the streets regardless of how they got there.

So basically, a social democracy is my ideal form of government, though, as with any political system, it has its own share of inadequacies.
 

Vivi22

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trooperpaul said:
erttheking said:
Communism has been tried again and again and again and it JUST DOESN'T WORK! It's well intentioned but fundamentally flawed.
Capitalism has been tried again and again and again and it JUST DOESN'T WORK! It's well intentioned but fundamentally flawed.
Pretty much. How many financial meltdowns does it take for people to notice that capitalism has some serious issues? Particularly when the government backs off on regulation and consumer protection. Hell, I'm only 26 and have lived through at least 3 fairly major recessions. Something is not right when a system is prone to shitting itself at least once every ten years.

Have to agree with the guy who said making a binary choice of such a complex issue is pointless.
 

Loonyyy

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No reason to be entirely for or against one or the other. A perfect capitalist system would have monopolies everywhere, and be unfair, and communism usually does the same with the government. So either way, you're not well off. You need a moderate ground, and since those two aren't even polar opposites, it's an odd way to phrase a question.
 

LadyTiamat

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SnakeoilSage said:
21st Century[/B]. We cannot afford to base societies around such antiquated, fanciful designs.
A combination of capialist and socialist enterprises within society creates the healthiest population (see sweeden )
 

minimacker

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Seeing as what's happening in the U.S at the moment. (Corporations having more power than the government, it seems.) I'm going to have to go with Socialism. You know, that thing that's sort of inclined towards Communism, but doesn't have the dictatorship and restricted market?
 

implodinggoat

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I'm a Libertarian so I believe in free market capitalism although our current system has undermined free competition by means of collusion between the government and lobbyists who represent the most powerful corporations.

Regarding Communism:

Marx makes some very good critiques of capitalism; but his solution IE Communism is insane.

Marx points out that in a capitalist system the upper class is able to manipulate the lower classes because they control the means of production. Namely the management who runs a company has control over the distribution of the company's profits and is therefore able to award themselves an unfairly large portion of the profit while giving labor a share that they would never agree to if they had the power to negotiate with management on equal terms.

So then Marx concludes that the way to rectify this problem is to hand control of the means of production and the distribution of wealth over to the state assuming that the state will represent the interests of the people.

Why Communism Doesn't Work:

Marx points out that control over the means of production can be used to subjugate the worker.

He proposes to solve this problem by taking control over the means of production away from private enterprise and handing it over to the state.

So now the state has all the power that control over the means of production entails and it also has control over the police, the justice system, the military and the economy as a whole.

In effect Marx removes one form of tyranny over the worker and replaces it with a vastly more powerful form of tyranny over the worker.
 

implodinggoat

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LadyTiamat said:
SnakeoilSage said:
21st Century[/B]. We cannot afford to base societies around such antiquated, fanciful designs.
A combination of capialist and socialist enterprises within society creates the healthiest population (see sweeden )
Sweden has large off shore oil deposits and a relatively small population.

If your nation has a massive surplus of wealth to redistribute like Sweden then Socialism can be effective.

However; when your country doesn't have vast amounts of excess wealth sitting around then it doesn't work so well and you find yourself falling into massive debt since your people are asking for benefits which your government simply can't afford. This is exactly what happened to Greece and is now engulfing the rest of Europe.
 

MrTub

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implodinggoat said:
LadyTiamat said:
SnakeoilSage said:
21st Century[/B]. We cannot afford to base societies around such antiquated, fanciful designs.
A combination of capialist and socialist enterprises within society creates the healthiest population (see sweeden )
Sweden has large off shore oil deposits and a relatively small population.

If your nation has a massive surplus of wealth to redistribute like Sweden then Socialism can be effective.

However; when your country doesn't have vast amounts of excess wealth sitting around then it doesn't work so well and you find yourself falling into massive debt since your people are asking for benefits which your government simply can't afford. This is exactly what happened to Greece and is now engulfing the rest of Europe.

Dude.. We have zero oil.

I'm pretty sure you are thinking about Norway.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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Neither. Obviously.

Communism fell flat on it's face decades ago in just about every country it's been tried in.

Capitalism, or at the very least, capitalist ideals, are at the heart of much of what's going horribly wrong in the world right now.

Not to mention it's a callous, somewhat irresponsible ideal, that favours people that already have huge sums of money over everyone else.

We seriously need to sort something out, because what we're doing now isn't really working very well.
 

Puzzlenaut

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Lets not confuse Capitalism and Democracy here. There are plenty of autocratic capitalist states, and the ability to vote has nothing, inherently, to do with communism and capitalism.

If the question was more "Would you rather live in a democratic capitalist society or a democratic communist society?", my answer would absolutely by democratic communist. The reason communism has failed in the past is because it is too easy for the system to be manipulated into an autocracy; with appropriate safeguards to liberty and self-determination, Communism provides a potentially far more fair society than capitalism.

Oppression is not a part of communism, and nor is it a universally present feature of communism: there are plenty of countries round the world that have democratically elected a communist party into power.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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spartan231490 said:
Communism fails. That's just the way it works. Truthfully, I don't understand how anyone can think it would work. It's based on the principle that your work is not worth anything, and on the principle that you can get something for nothing. Two obvious inaccuracies. Further, the only logical result of communism is a radical decrease in productivity, and an ever increasing chance of shortages.

Capitalism may have it's flaws, but it's no where near as bad as communism.
Where'd you get that from?

It's based on the principle that everyone's work is worth the same. I mean, that's it's very foundation!

(That means a doctor's work is worth as much as that of a cleaner, or a teacher. Or an astronaut. One thing that is however frequently forgotten, is that the idea behind the system is however that a very highly skilled doctor, (or cleaner, etc) is worth more than one who is less skilled. - Thus, implemented properly, as intended, communist economies should have wage inequality based on how skilled someone is at their job, but all types of jobs should pay the same.)

As for getting something for nothing, that's a very strange statement that doesn't seem to relate to anything. You could say the same thing about a lot of stuff that goes on in capitalist societies.

It's like nobody even reads the works that inspire what they're talking about... Carl Marx's theories are a mess. Even he said so, later on. But it'd help if people would at least have some idea what they actually were...
 

Jm2k

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Aug 11, 2009
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Capitalism + Communism = Capcom :D

I can NOT have been the first person who ever thought about that.

In all seriousness, Capitalism with regulations in necessary areas. Like Healthcare.
 

R3dF41c0n

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Feb 11, 2009
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I voted for capitalism only because there was no middle ground. I strongly believe in a consumer economy and a free market but I believe government should have some regulation. After all slavery exists in a true capitalist society.
 

DSQ

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Jun 30, 2009
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Kopikatsu said:
Communism works. In theory.

Capitalism works. In theory.

Both are shitty in reality, but at least Communism sounds better on paper.
Pretty much this.

In the end you need a little of both to make a great country.
 

Oskamunda

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Jak23 said:
I was wondering what the general consensus is, please comment and tell us why.
Oh dear GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

You're going to break the internet!

Also, enjoy this conversation for as long as you can before some bullshit COICA 3.0 or SOPA 2.59 goes through.

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