Poll: Civility of discussion with others on the site.

[wizzy555]

I'd say the constant stream of gender issue "point proving" threads has been swapped with a constant stream of GG "point proving" threads.

Civility maybe slightly worse but not obviously so.

 

[Fodder Aplenty]

Actually, I don't think I've ever gotten into a heated discussion on this site, which is something I'm pretty proud of. I managed to do this by never saying anything ever.

 

[Mikeybb]

*snipped*
That kind of combativeness is certainly not limited to The Escapist forums, of course, it's an internet wide phenomenon. Outrage culture demands constant warfare. There must be an "us" and a "them", and each side pollinates the other with endless entreaties to further conflict, so that the ol' dopamine will keep flowing. There will always be some fresh atrocity uncovered on social media that must be poured over and dissected, examined for how terrible it exposes "them" as being, and how vindicated "we" are in turn.

I sometimes wonder if this is a phenomena induced by the internet of merely magnified.

The whole 'monkeysphere' theory, while not directly engaging this issue, does seem to lend itself to the conclusion that humans have been hardwired to easily slide into the 'them and us' mindset.

Not to say it's something unavoidable.
More that we can overcome this tendency, but it's just so easy to slip into this mindset without realizing.
Especially when it offers the comforting assurance provided by the agreement and companionship of the 'us'.

As to the Escapist in general.
I find it mostly civil, but then I don't often dip into the two subforums mentioned.

Yes, I do see some posts I'd consider uncivil, but then that's based on my subjective level.
I can't presume it's the same for all and, as we all know, there are some things you'll say to and read from your friends that would be damned impolite from a stranger.
Even if it looks a little uncivil to me on the outside, it may be an acceptable level of banter or argument between the two involved.

The internet at large seems to be more civil than I remember it being back when I started with it, but again that might be either a hardening of myself towards such things, the increased presence of moderated environments or (least likely) that it's actually more civil.

 

[zerragonoss]

I said yes but thinking about it it may acutlly be less that the hostile topics have grown more frequent or hostile, but that other disscusion has lessend. The user base has seeminlgy shrunk a lot, and I think a lot of the people reaming are the ones who liked the more volitle types of disscusion.

 

[Noblemartel]

Actually, I don't think I've ever gotten into a heated discussion on this site, which is something I'm pretty proud of. I managed to do this by never saying anything ever.

high five from a fellow low poster club member!

Back on topic. I think it's more there are a lot less lighthearted discussions going on in off-topic than there were in the past. I don't typically browse any one forum area I typically look to the little box on the side and click on what I think is interesting. I will admit that there are some people that should just stop talking to each other because it always leads to a battle of nitpicking each others arguments but I digress.

 

[AgedGrunt]

Well it's what happens when the Escapist bends over backwards to accommodate Gamergate.

Over the years there have been a lot of various debates or events, ones about religion or various other controversial topics, but GG is the only one where I've known of people getting harassing PM's when they spoke out against GG.

The Escapist seemingly decided, back when GG was about harassing Quinn for having sex, that this was the audience they wanted. Hell, the rules were even changed so less people in the big GG thread would get banned.

It's no surprises that this place has become more hostile because of that.

The Game Industry board is plagued by GG. Not "pro-GG", all things "GG". It's the Internet equivalent of a crap-flinging battle, and that it's being brought in here shows what happens when people complain too much about moderation: more discussion is permitted and threads/boards are allowed to shit up.

Honestly I put down no major shift, but have to point to the sheer magnitude of stupid that is "GG" and all things related (particularly those who believe they're in some kind of war they have to win) as probably the dumbest, most obnoxious fucking thing I've ever seen on the Internet in my entire life. And I've seen The Duck Song.

I said it before, nothing of value would be lost in nuking it and taking a nightstick up anyone who wants to bring it on here. Go play on 8chan and make a board to counter theirs, or make their own little base of operations somewhere else.

 

[EternallyBored]

I said yes but thinking about it it may acutlly be less that the hostile topics have grown more frequent or hostile, but that other disscusion has lessend. The user base has seeminlgy shrunk a lot, and I think a lot of the people reaming are the ones who liked the more volitle types of disscusion.

I've noticed that as well, the forums have really slowed down over the last couple years, we used to get volatile discussion, but there were plenty of other topics to post in, now it seems like its a lot easier for those topics to just kind of hang around because there just isn't much discussion going on.

This is especially true in R&P's case, the forum was already slow, but dumping GG there seems to have resulted in a lot of the regulars either getting banned or leaving, now you sometimes end up with topics on the front page that haven't had a post made in them for days. GID seems to pretty much be fueled by about a dozen or two prolific posters, without which the whole board would be about as slow as R&P now. Even the gaming discussion board seems to be really slow. It used to be, back when I lurked, that I could wake up in the morning and see the front page of the forum with almost entirely new topics and discussions from the previous day, barring whatever couple of popular threads were drawing discussion. Now, the same topics can float around on the front page for days at a time only drawing one or two posts a day before dying without ever reaching two pages worth of replies.

The strict rules have always created a fairly high attrition rate, but a high replacement rate made it easy to keep up, now the number of people leaving/getting banned seems to be exceeding the number of people creating new accounts. The content exodus, and GG happening right around the same time might have been what finally tipped the scales.

 

[happyninja42]

*snipped*
That kind of combativeness is certainly not limited to The Escapist forums, of course, it's an internet wide phenomenon. Outrage culture demands constant warfare. There must be an "us" and a "them", and each side pollinates the other with endless entreaties to further conflict, so that the ol' dopamine will keep flowing. There will always be some fresh atrocity uncovered on social media that must be poured over and dissected, examined for how terrible it exposes "them" as being, and how vindicated "we" are in turn.

I sometimes wonder if this is a phenomena induced by the internet of merely magnified.

The whole 'monkeysphere' theory, while not directly engaging this issue, does seem to lend itself to the conclusion that humans have been hardwired to easily slide into the 'them and us' mindset.

Not to say it's something unavoidable.
More that we can overcome this tendency, but it's just so easy to slip into this mindset without realizing.
Especially when it offers the comforting assurance provided by the agreement and companionship of the 'us'.

As to the Escapist in general.
I find it mostly civil, but then I don't often dip into the two subforums mentioned.

Yes, I do see some posts I'd consider uncivil, but then that's based on my subjective level.
I can't presume it's the same for all and, as we all know, there are some things you'll say to and read from your friends that would be damned impolite from a stranger.
Even if it looks a little uncivil to me on the outside, it may be an acceptable level of banter or argument between the two involved.

The internet at large seems to be more civil than I remember it being back when I started with it, but again that might be either a hardening of myself towards such things, the increased presence of moderated environments or (least likely) that it's actually more civil.

No, this isn't an internet specific phenomenon of human behavior. The internet has simply made it far more available to a larger number of people to do, and to be seen by a larger percentage of the public. There has always been an Us/Them mentality

 

[sageoftruth]

Well, I'd say we've covered the bulk of the problems that have arisen.

Therefore, I would at least like to mention the lack of trolls. I saw one appear on a thread recently, but compared to lots of other sites, I've been pleased at the sheer lack of people who enter the forums just to antagonize others.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

Actually, I don't think I've ever gotten into a heated discussion on this site, which is something I'm pretty proud of. I managed to do this by never saying anything ever.

high five from a fellow low poster club member!

Back on topic. I think it's more there are a lot less lighthearted discussions going on in off-topic than there were in the past. I don't typically browse any one forum area I typically look to the little box on the side and click on what I think is interesting. I will admit that there are some people that should just stop talking to each other because it always leads to a battle of nitpicking each others arguments but I digress.

LURKERS UNITE! At least if no one can see us. Damn, I think we're being watched.

OT: I've been lurking on the Escapist for a few years now, and in the Religion & Politics forum primarily. I honestly cannot say that the general level of hostility has gone up. Certain posters clash, certain subjects draw heated attacks/defenses, but the general level of clash seems to have stayed about the same.

Admittedly, I do think the whole Gamergate discussion caused something of a spike, but I've sadly been watching people get into heated arguments and get banned since before I even created an account.

 

[Fox12]

Yes, certainly. Anita Sarkeesian and feminism always started huge arguments here, but they were typically short lived. At worst something would happen, and people would argue for a week before moving on. Then GG happened, and now the fighting is perpetual. People are a lot more bitter and inflammatory. Heck, the forums aren't even as diverse anymore. It's 50% GG.

And I'm not innocent either. I'm a lot more politicized then I used to be, and I've turned rather aggressive on a certain forum. I've actually been trying to distance myself from the GG discussion. This site just isn't fun anymore.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

A more hostile Escapist is still a better place to try and have civil debates than 90% of the internet.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Is it to do with the fact that people remember the bad more than they remember the good?

When you first join the site you probably loved it... it was full of good times and good chats. You moved around similar threads, and avoided anything too political or with hostile intent.

As you grow more comfortable in the site and the community you get drawn into the darker areas, and are privvy to the arguements and debates you didn't witness before... and as an extra salt in the wound, memory favours this over the hundreds of fun and friendly threads you also took part in.

This gives an unfair representation of the community actually having changed over the years...


...then again, gamergate also happened. Threads with hundreds, if not thousands, of posts of unwarrented bitching, blubbering and general hostility to levels not expreienced prior. Hell, you still have threads with hundreds of posts appearing (all from a small handfull of users) arguing over a miniscule piece of 'news' (read: rumour) from an immensely uncredible looking website, painstakingly disected then appearing on the front page of threads here...

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Therefore, I would at least like to mention the lack of trolls. I saw one appear on a thread recently, but compared to lots of other sites, I've been pleased at the sheer lack of people who enter the forums just to antagonize others.

You must not spend ANY time int GID forums. That's 90% of the posts in there. Thumbs up for the creative ways they get past the "don't be a dick" rule, though.

Hah they used to talk about religion and politics forum this way...

When everyone gets over Gamergate The game industry forums might be nice...

 

[kitsunefather]

Honestly, I've been coming to this site for several years, and occasionally spend a few weeks perusing the forums. Aside from the "GG is Good!" and "GG is Bad!" threads, the forum has gone through peaks and valleys of civility, same as any group of like-minded people who don't always agree on everything.

There have always been angry threads, and there will always be people who sign up/sign in just to enjoy arguing with others. The mods do a decent job of responding to extreme rudeness and boorishness quickly and efficiently, when people report the behavior.

The problem people are seeing, I think, is not looking past the aforementioned threads, and reading them as the tone of the rest of the forum. Most of the threads I've read have been more civil than on most sites, and even the GG/AGG threads are more typically civil than any discussion of the same subjects raised over Twitter or other social media.

But really, it's like violence. You are seeing it more because those threads are getting more posts (machine-gun fast posts from people looking for fights), and are staying visible longer on the main page. Outside of those threads, I'm not seeing a good deal of uncivil behavior, though there are of course exceptions.

 

[sageoftruth]

Therefore, I would at least like to mention the lack of trolls. I saw one appear on a thread recently, but compared to lots of other sites, I've been pleased at the sheer lack of people who enter the forums just to antagonize others.

You must not spend ANY time int GID forums. That's 90% of the posts in there. Thumbs up for the creative ways they get past the "don't be a dick" rule, though.

Never noticed that one. I mostly gravitate between Gaming Discussion and Off-Topic, and occasionally Religion and Politics, which wasn't as bad as I expected. If I'm feeling brave, I'll take a look one day.

 

[theSovietConnection]

I said yes but thinking about it it may acutlly be less that the hostile topics have grown more frequent or hostile, but that other disscusion has lessend. The user base has seeminlgy shrunk a lot, and I think a lot of the people reaming are the ones who liked the more volitle types of disscusion.

I think this is partly what's going on here.

As I said in another topic, it seems a lot of users migrated from the forums to user groups. So the forums themselves are no longer as active as they once were, save for the controversial topics that seem to draw out the bitterness in posters.

 

[Mr_Spanky]

Yeah - it's one of the reasons I very rarely post anymore. Not that I was a prolific poster even "back in the day" but it just seems either

A: nobody gives a damn about what I write - possibly no one even reads it
or
B: you get caught up in some pointless pseduo-intellectual bs with some guy/girl who wants to tell you to go fuck yourself but can't (because rules) and so stretches it out over several paragraphs and makes flimsy justifications for insulting you, your parentage, your dog etc etc

I think part of it is just me growing up a bit though - I have much less tolerance for internet debate than I used to. And by "debate" I mean constant and utterly pointless bitching.

But part of it is about this website too - used to be I could find at least one thread a day that would make me laugh - for whatever reason. Now? Can't even remember the last time that happened.

Reduced content + reduced user base + so many "controversial" topics that get people riled up = Massivley less fun

 

[hawkeye52]

I found the similar amounts of rage on previous flavour of the month topics tbh back in 2010 etc.

Just that nowadays people tend to moan and ***** for much longer periods of time then they used to.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Well for what its worth, I barely got to the bottom of page 1 of this thread before deciding I need a fucking Bailey's so what does that tell you?