Poll: Controversy over a schools mascot (or: how people are seeing racism where there is none present)

[Xan Krieger]

http://www.news14.com/content/local_news/charlotte/611206/mascot-controversy-continues-as-supporters-ready-to-meet/Default.aspx

In short: A school used to have as a mascot a confederate symbol and the name "The Rebels" which seems normal given that this is the American southeast. However using a soldier from another country as a mascot (especially one which wanted slavery) seemed racist. so that was removed. The new logo is a P with a sword under it. The name is still the rebels. Apparently people think the name "The Rebels" is racist. I would like to point out that it does not say any specific rebels so it could be the Americans during the American Revolution, the Rebels from Star wars, the rebels from the French Revolution, any rebels at all.

Regardless, should they change the name/moscot?

 

[Rolling Thunder]

The original could be argued as supporting racism, segregation and slavery.

The latter, could well be argued to simply be an expression of their pride to be American. After all, the founders of America were all moonshining-swilling cowardly vandals rebels.

 

[Hazy]

The original could be argued as supporting racism, segregation and slavery.

The latter, could well be argued to simply be an expression of their pride to be American. After all, the founders of America were all moonshining-swilling cowardly vandals rebels.

I disagree. They disliked the tyranny of England, thus seeking refuge. However, Their Ethics are debateable. But still, thanks for the giggle

 

[WrongSprite]

it could be the Rebels from Star wars

This just about summarises it.

 

[CompanionCube]

Rebel against the rebellion for the change of the Rebel!

 

[randommaster]

I think that they should argue that they are the rebels from Star Wars, but got the wrong costumes, just to annoy people.

 

[Therumancer]

Well I have mixed opinions on the subject.

For starters there is nothing inherantly racist about the Confederacy since the North (all propaganda aside) was extremely racist too. Slavery was only one issue being fought over. This comes down to another entire discussion however. Arguably anyone from that time period could be considered racist, and that most certainly includes Lincoln (people continually act shocked when they learn things about him.... the winners get to write the history books kids, explain the war in their terms, have their propaganda remain in place, and see the monuments erected in their honor remember that).

The problem with the Confederate Flag is that they were a group of traitors they seperated from the US, and lost. We're talking mondo-treason here, and the symbol is pretty much anti-union/anti-United States, leading to that whole "The South Will Rise Again" mentality which can be problematic on a lot of levels.

It's generally negative in a national sense, given all of the things that go with that flag. Racism actually being only a minor association as I see it, though I suppose with the way the propaganda went down it's seen as being more of an issue than it really was (it gets complicated).

We've been here before, and I have no desire to get into a huge arguement on the subject. The way the history books are written now aside, the entire Civil War was mostly about money and economics. Slavery has retroactively been made into a much bigger issue than it was. This is not to say that it wasn't an issue, just not as big a one as people would like to believe.

When I say there is nothing "inherantly" racist about the confederacy, I mean there are central principles there that have nothing to do with racism or slavery. However those principles are arguably un-American since they lost the war. You could for example in theory have wound up fighting agains the Union without slavery being a factor, and indeed the Civil War tore the nation apart, "Brother against Brother". A lot of people from the "North" went to fight for the South and vice versa.

 

[Cuniculus]

The hell kind of crap is this? It's a MASCOT. I know for a fact that people love to have "The Trojans" as a mascot. What if they liked killing kittens? You aren't assuming their life style, you're using their image as your schools.

Although I could see why some people wouldn't want to play against The East Valley Nazis.

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

Snip

I agree, the confederates didn't fight for slavery, it was principle of anti-federalism that was touched by racism. Still I think it would be stupid to have a confederate flag as a symbol. (Even though I'm becoming more and more anti-federalist.

However "Rebels" is not that bad at all. When I think Rebels I think Star Wars Episode 4.

The original could be argued as supporting racism, segregation and slavery.

The latter, could well be argued to simply be an expression of their pride to be American. After all, the founders of America were all moonshining-swilling cowardly vandals rebels.

I disagree. They disliked the tyranny of England, thus seeking refuge. However, Their Ethics are debatable. But still, thanks for the giggle

Hardly tyranny, England was just making the colonies pay up for the massive amount of dough they were costing the British Empire.

Just clarifying in case you care, I'm American.

 

[Hazy]

Snip

I agree, the confederates didn't fight for slavery, it was principle of anti-federalism that was touched by racism. Still I think it would be stupid to have a confederate flag as a symbol. (Even though I'm becoming more and more anti-federalist.

However "Rebels" is not that bad at all. When I think Rebels I think Star Wars Episode 4.

The original could be argued as supporting racism, segregation and slavery.

The latter, could well be argued to simply be an expression of their pride to be American. After all, the founders of America were all moonshining-swilling cowardly vandals rebels.

I disagree. They disliked the tyranny of England, thus seeking refuge. However, Their Ethics are debatable. But still, thanks for the giggle

Hardly tyranny, England was just making the colonies pay up for the massive amount of dough they were costing the British Empire.

Just clarifying in case you care, I'm American.

You know, You may be right about that.
I've been looking at it from a one sided perspective for quite some time now (That would be the only side the schools teach.) But I have to say, you make an extremely valid point.

 

[BlindTom]

When did rebellion become linked with race?

 

[Xan Krieger]

When did rebellion become linked with race?

when people associated rebellian with the confederate flag and slavery. This is a sadly common thing down in the American southeast.

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

You know, You may be right about that.
I've been looking at it from a one sided perspective for quite some time now (That would be the only side the schools teach.) But I have to say, you make an extremely valid point.

the winners get to write the history books kids, explain the war in their terms, have their propaganda remain in place, and see the monuments erected in their honor remember that).

Yeah pretty much what he said. (Sorry Therumancer I promise to stop shamelessly quoting you).
But although, Englands need was legitimate, they went a bad way about taxing the colonies.

 

[thiosk]

NO. PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CHANGE TEAM MASCOTS, FLAGS, AND NAMES DUE TO THEIR PERCEIVED RACISM ARE RETARDED.

Now: If the team is called "the jew-hating nazis" and their mascot is goebbles with one of those pizza baking paddle things, ok, thats racist. And the team should be changed.

However, the perception that the civil war was fought ONLY because of slavery is a misconception that is fostered by elementary school history courses. Slavery was a hot button issue, to be sure, but Lincoln's quote:

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

The british ended slavery, for example, by buying all the slaves, forbidding trade in slaves, and then freeing them all. Seems fair and beneficial to all parties. The Northern approach was "You bought em, now they ain't yours." So since slavery was an integral part of the society, the general southern response was "keep your hands off my property" and they felt it was a federal-government attack on their civil liberties and way of life, overstepping the constitution, and were willing to take up arms to prevent that.

Im in no way protecting slavery, i'm from the north anyway. I am just saying that the perception that "the south fought so they could have slavery" is a very 3rd grade level of understanding of the American civil war.

 

[KaiRai]

Christ on a Bike!!!

Does nobody remember the slaves were freed hundreds of years ago!?
Also, how can it be labeled racist?? It seems just about anything that doesn't say "Minorities rule" is racist these days. The PC brigade have gone too far and now all need executing by way of stoning in my opinion.

 

[Gmano]

Sounds like Fahrenheit 451, political correctness shall turn all media completely bland to a point where nothing will be allowed to contain any possibly offensive materials and the reading of old books with their hateful "ideas" will be banned.

Gee, he really wasn't that far off.

 

[ElephantGuts]

How stupid does this fucking school need to be to forget that America was founded by rebels. It was a rebel state. And this is a goddamn school saying this. Then again, this being the South I'm unfortunately not surprised at this sort of complete stupidity and historical ignorance.

But seriously, how is "rebel" racist? The Confederate flag was bad because it represented a country that rebelled against our own, the slavery thing only made it worse. Atleast they managed to recognize that.

This is exactly what happens when people get too touchy about topics like racism, which in this case is probably because the people are all secretly racist and try to make up for it by creating an overly anti-racist appearance. And then they start attacking racism where it is not present.

 

[Senial]

Its not racist, its a fucking rock!

 

[Jamash]

Who are the NAACP to say what is politically correct?

Until they change their name to the National Association for the Advancement of African American People, or NAAAAP, they shouldn't make such a fuss about a school mascot.

It's like the pot calling the kettle African American.