Poll: Cooperative Ninja Game

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
EVENING, ESCAPISTS!

It's been far too long, but, here I am, with another game write up, similar to my Pokemon and my ideas for a Zombie

MMO.

This time, my idea is for the return to greatness that Tenchu Z SHOULD have been.

Bought it again, and starting really thinking, "Where did they go wrong here?" and "If they made another, how should,

or more accurately, how would I suggest they improve things?"

Well, here's my thoughts on the very subject. As ever, it's going to be a bit of a read, so, spoiler tags, for your convenience.

For consoles, 4 player co op.

For those who've played Tenchu Z, you'll recall it being the first in the series offering customization of your

appearance (past games allowed armor to be worn as an item, but, it was still a predetermined character).

Now, looking back, it was rather bland, and the clothing options, at least, the way they were handled, was quite a

pain in the ass.

So, step 1.

Better facial choices. Tenchu Z had roughly about....8 heads? Each with two different skin tones. Pale, and Tan.

We can do better. Facial presets, sure, keep them, not so bad, but, increase the count of them, and allow skin tone

color choice, much like how they allowed you to choose the color of your hair.

Allow eye colors as well.

Body wise, well, presets would be fine here too.

Honestly, look at Dragon's Dogma, they have what would really be perfect (for this game) character creation.

So, moving on from that,(stop thinking about midget ninjas)

Tenchu Z had this habit of being annoying with it's clothing.

You unlocked clothing options after completion of certain, key story missions. Well, you unlocked the chance to

purchase them.
However, they would then simply appear as a listed item, such as "Animal 1" or "Foreign 4", with predetermined colors

and patterns, with no way to tell what you were purchasing until you bought it already. (there was a work around to

preview them so you could get your money back, but, that involved quitting with out saving and reloading)
Right, again, we can do better.
Unlocking more purchase chances is all well and good, and I don't mind that system, too much.
It's the way they were presented.
Show a preview of the item, basic, blank. If you like the basics of it, then purchase it. Once purchased, allow us to

customize it ourselves. Soul Calibur 5 had this feature, and honestly, it was the only thing they got right in that

game. (3 is still the best, though).
SO, use a similiar system, with color and pattern customization, and this would actually open more shopping

oppurtunity, allowing more reason to go for extra score and gold in the gameplay, to purchase designs and the like

for your clothing.

Now, Tenchu Z divided it's Clothing into nine categories.

Hair, Face, Outerwear (upper body), Hakama (lower body), Arms, Legs, Sheath, Accessory One, Accessory Two.

This is already fairly decent, but, let's add two more layers. Inner Wear (upper body), and Weapon.

This is a small change, and yet gives quite a large amount of uniqueness.

Inner Wear would, as you may have guessed, would just go on the body first, under the Outerwear, like a shirt under a

jacket.

Weapon, well, that's the great thing. Give us a choice. Tenchu Z had Kama and claws and even different swords for

accessories, but we couldn't use them.

Well, give us the options to now. Let us fight (and kill) barehanded if we wanted to, to channel the badass Tatsimaru

from Tenchu II, or the bald doctor, Teshu (though, he did use accupuncture pins for kills) from Wrath Of Heaven.

Kamas, chains, claws, variences of blades, razor wire, naginatas.

Give us a choice. Sheathe would then be a reflection of our weapon choice.

Also, another feature of our clothes and weapon choice, is how much suspicion they cause (or avoid).

Tenchu Z subtly gave you a bonus to the time it took to be identified as an enemy ninja if your sword was sheathed.

Let's expand on that.

Now, if you've vaguely heard some history, you'll be familiar with the idea of the ninja, not garbed in the black

outfit of a stealth assassin, but in that of a peasant or farmer, killing with farm tools the enemies who never

realized how close to danger they were.

That sounds great to me.

Let certain clothes lower suspicion, and others raise it. Same with weapons. In fact, some may add or lower suspicion

even further when used with certain other combinations.

Now, bit of explanation here.

It was quite commonplace in the times that the Tenchu series has (mostly) always represented to see people walking

around with their swords sheathed, while shopping or enjoying a meal at the local sushi place, mostly lords or people

of good economic standing. Duels were commonplace, actually. So, swords with "fancy" clothes may not raise a flag,

nor would a kama (hand scythe) in the hands (or belt) of one in the garb of a farmer.

Now, if you wanted to run around dressed as the theatre hand ninja garb (THAT'S where the basic image comes from,

mind you, theatre hands dressed in all black were always used for plays and the like, getting things in position, so

when one play actually had one of these "shadows" kill one of the main characters, many people were shocked and had

no idea what had just happened. History, yay.), then by all means, go ahead. But, people will notice you if they spot

you. Alot. Some of them will have weapons. Some of them will want to share the sharpness and lethality of their

weapon with you.

So, this would allow more styles of play as well. Do you blend in with the people, or do you blend in with the

shadows? Perhaps both?

Tenchu II had the most variety of stealth kills, as the kill was determined by which of eight cardinal directions you came from, and if you were jumping, standing, or crouched, all resulting in a completely different kill.

Tenchu Z.....had six assassinations.

Tenchu II style would be best.
Tenchu Z offered some RPG elements, in the method of Skills and Attributes (loved Badger myself, and my friend loves

crawling about on the ceiling using the subtley named "Ceiling" ability.)

The three attributes. were Vitality (Health), Strength(Damage done with attacks), and Agility.(Running speed and jump

distance)

These attributes could be adjusted however you liked, and as many times you wanted, between missions, and determined

what Skills you could use.

Now, this is pretty solid as is, and where many believe the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" saying, as do I more

often then not, if there is a way to improve, why not?

So, let's have it determine your assassination style.

"What?" Well, the great thing about Tenchu II and Wrath of Heaven, was each character brought their own personality

to their assassinations.

Let's mimic this a little.

If....

Stength > Agility = Brute Force styled assassinations. (brutal, painful looking kills, like Teshu or Tatsumaru)
Agility > Strength = Speed styled (Lightning quick, rapid kills, such as Ayane.)
Agility = Strength = Technical (Precise, non flashy kills, such as Rikimaru)

Vitality would not affect the kill style.

Now, Tenchu Z also allowed you to choose your open combat style, between Strong (three hit combos, high damage, low

speed) and Fast (four hit combos, low damage, high speed).

That could also be affected by your Attribute settings, in the method of the combat style.

Each weapon would of course be required to accomodate these styles, but, it would be VERY satisfying, and lend well

to co op kills.


Tenchu Z was NOT the first co op capable Tenchu (Wrath of Heaven, once again, via two player co op, and VS, style

games), but it was the first to really focus on that, allowing four players to team up for missions. (no VS fight

mode here).

However, it took a major step backwards here.

See, Wrath Of Heaven allowed, during it's co op missions, two ninja to work together to assassinate a single enemy,

my favorite being Teshu and Ayane's combo. Look it up.

Tenchu Z, while it DOES let you take hold of an enemy and drag them away while they live, does not actually allow you

to assist in a silent kill, which is misleading, because the way the grapple is done, it seems like an opening for a

final stab from an ally. (in fact, the trailer leads one to think this is so, however, performing it counts only as a

normal kill, not a stealth kill)

So, this is where your assassination style comes into play. Should two players hit the kill button at roughly the

same time, they shall team up on the poor soul unlucky enough to not have noticed either of them sneaking up.

Each of the three styles(Brute Force, Speed, Technical) of each weapon type, would all have one assassination combo

with each other.

This would really just add to the "awesome" factor of the game, and add to the bonding one gets from hunting down

mongrels together in Feudal Japan.

The main problem I have with Tenchu Z, is really just how....saddening, I suppose, it is, coming from previous games,

with larger, grand and beautiful maps, and then playing Z, realizing.....there's only about eight maps, for a game of

fifty missions, really. And they all pretty much are the same bland, square area, with one or two buildings. Only

three come any where close to the greatness of before. The Castle, and the two different town maps. Even then, they

only BARELY are able to justify themselves in a Tenchu game.

Now, first thing, is better level design, and secondly, more levels. I should not have to keep coming back to the

same restaurant to kill people. Really, the first two times should have been enough for the bad guys to think, "You

know, maybe we should find someplace else for our evilness." (side note, there actually is no "Good" or "Bad" in

conflict, only opposing sides.)

Secondly, take a play from 343 Industries, with how they have the main story campaign, and then Spartan Ops, a

multiplayer campaign.

Third, add a feature that will assign a map, an enemy layout, and finally an objective, for play, so that at least

there's always SOMETHING somewhat new to do.
EDIT.
Tenchu Z had a ranking system for each mission, from Ninja 1 to Ninja 5 (5 being Grand Master).

You started at Ninja 1, and worked up from kills and the like.

So, there was no reward for "Ghost" style gameplay where no one sees you and you get your job done with no disturbances.

Fix that. Start out already at Ninja 5 ranking, so that if you complete the objective and do so without being seen, you already are in the top rating.

This would be more fitting for ninjas, I think.

Now, you could still add to that score, with kills, hiding bodies, and being undetected. (Mark Of The Ninja's scoring system, really).

Now, getting spotted would give a higher penalty for your score, but all in all, I'd think this a better plan.
/Edit.
No, not the movie. Tenchu Z boasted in it's features that you would recieve missions and customize your characters in

the "Ninja Village", which was also what served as the lobby of your online matches.

Turns out, that "Village" consists of a hut,( Rikimaru's) and a shed (yours), and a path that leads out into the

plains.

I guess that's efficient, but boring.

Craft a true village, nothing major, but something at least, that will really allow new players to fully test out

their new character builds and styles, rooftops and training areas, people who can also give non essential missions,

and even different shops for items, clothing, weapons, and accesories. Hell, involve the village in the main story

line somehow.

Now then, as always, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this matter, and, I've another question for you as well.

If this were described to you, would you think it a worthwhile kickstarter program?

We'd fix the controls, so that when you grapple someone, A button would put them on the ground, and RB would put them

against the wall. Currently, it just seems friggin' backwards.
 

BrotherRool

New member
Oct 31, 2008
3,834
0
0
As a pitch, it's a little hard to understand for people who don't know what Tenchu Z is, maybe it'd be cool if you could summarise it for me?

Also, to be a bit blunt, co-op stealth is really hard because normally stealth is a save-reload affair and a lot more about avoiding doing things wrong than doing things right. Its not much fun when your friend suddenly alerts a guard, some fairly big developers (my mind is saying the Ratchett and Clank guys?) tried it and ended up going in a different direction. Do you think those problems are solvable (or have I got the wrong sort of idea about what this game is?)
 

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
BrotherRool said:
As a pitch, it's a little hard to understand for people who don't know what Tenchu Z is, maybe it'd be cool if you could summarise it for me?

Also, to be a bit blunt, co-op stealth is really hard because normally stealth is a save-reload affair and a lot more about avoiding doing things wrong than doing things right. Its not much fun when your friend suddenly alerts a guard, some fairly big developers (my mind is saying the Ratchett and Clank guys?) tried it and ended up going in a different direction. Do you think those problems are solvable (or have I got the wrong sort of idea about what this game is?)
Tenchu Z is a 360 title, featuring a ninja you create working under Rikimaru, now master of the clan.

47 of it's 50 missions are able to be done in co op, with up to four other players.

The thing that made it as successful as it was, was the fact that one alert enemy didn't mean everyone in the level was suddenly raging. (Splinter Cell Conviction).

So, while yes, your friends could screw up, it didn't mean the mission was a scrub.

It's relatively cheap to pick up now, if you'd want to try it out.
 

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
Forlong said:
I think someone needs to look up what the word "ninja" means, because co-op does not go with it.
To each their own. Also, ninja clans.
 

Kopikatsu

New member
May 27, 2010
4,924
0
0
Forlong said:
I think someone needs to look up what the word "ninja" means, because co-op does not go with it.
Do you mean for fiction or historically? Because historically, ninja frequently worked together. Like, a Ninja was just a guy who dressed up as a worker, then when the boss came around, they bashed their head in with a tool and split like a banana.
 

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
Kopikatsu said:
Forlong said:
I think someone needs to look up what the word "ninja" means, because co-op does not go with it.
Do you mean for fiction or historically? Because historically, ninja frequently worked together. Like, a Ninja was just a guy who dressed up as a worker, then when the boss came around, they bashed their head in with a tool and split like a banana.
....pretty much, yeah.
 

TheRaider

New member
Jul 4, 2010
81
0
0
to be a success on kickstarter how are you going to prove you can make the game?
 

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
TheRaider said:
to be a success on kickstarter how are you going to prove you can make the game?
Were I to actually put this on Kickstarter, I'd make sure to flesh every idea out much more, along with several pieces of design work already in place. There are freeware programs for 3D Modeling and the like I could get ahold of, and were it a Kickstarter program, I'd more than likely use the funds to get the LIVE ARCADE development kit. Beyond that, can't prove anything that hasn't already been done.
 

ScruffyMcBalls

New member
Apr 16, 2012
332
0
0
Gotta say, I like your suggestions. I was thinking along the same lines as I was playing the games myself, but having missed out on Wrath of Heaven so long you clearly have a little more insight than me. I especially agree with character customisation and level maps. Having said that I still love the dock map, it's just so refreshing to play a ninja in the daytime (that and it reminds me of Onimusha 3).

As for your question, yeah I'd help Kickstart something like this. Co-op stealth games really aren't catered for anymore, and it's a bit of a shame considering how much fun they can be. I wonder if whoever still owns the rights to the franchise are planning on ever releasing another game.
 

TheRaider

New member
Jul 4, 2010
81
0
0
Arionis said:
TheRaider said:
to be a success on kickstarter how are you going to prove you can make the game?
Were I to actually put this on Kickstarter, I'd make sure to flesh every idea out much more, along with several pieces of design work already in place. There are freeware programs for 3D Modeling and the like I could get ahold of, and were it a Kickstarter program, I'd more than likely use the funds to get the LIVE ARCADE development kit. Beyond that, can't prove anything that hasn't already been done.
I think maybe before you think of kickstarter you try to make a small game of some sort to at least prove you can build games.

Most of the successfully kickerstarters in games come from those with some sort of development history or partial development of a game.

Even the little game I made was a large effort for me so I realise just how much would be needed for something like this.
 

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
ScruffyMcBalls said:
Gotta say, I like your suggestions. I was thinking along the same lines as I was playing the games myself, but having missed out on Wrath of Heaven so long you clearly have a little more insight than me. I especially agree with character customisation and level maps. Having said that I still love the dock map, it's just so refreshing to play a ninja in the daytime (that and it reminds me of Onimusha 3).

As for your question, yeah I'd help Kickstart something like this. Co-op stealth games really aren't catered for anymore, and it's a bit of a shame considering how much fun they can be. I wonder if whoever still owns the rights to the franchise are planning on ever releasing another game.
I believe it's still FROM SOFTWARE who own the rights, whom I'd like to send a link to this page, but, they don't seem to have an English friendly site, let alone forums.
TheRaider said:
Arionis said:
TheRaider said:
to be a success on kickstarter how are you going to prove you can make the game?
Were I to actually put this on Kickstarter, I'd make sure to flesh every idea out much more, along with several pieces of design work already in place. There are freeware programs for 3D Modeling and the like I could get ahold of, and were it a Kickstarter program, I'd more than likely use the funds to get the LIVE ARCADE development kit. Beyond that, can't prove anything that hasn't already been done.
I think maybe before you think of kickstarter you try to make a small game of some sort to at least prove you can build games.

Most of the successfully kickerstarters in games come from those with some sort of development history or partial development of a game.

Even the little game I made was a large effort for me so I realise just how much would be needed for something like this.
I'd like to make some small, Avatar based (360, not Cameron, nor Aang) before I do anything big, and this would certainly be a big project. The smaller games would all focus on some aspect or another that I'd like to perfect before implementing together, yet provide a full game of their own. It's been years since my time at Dayton Tech, and even then, those games were made using Fireworks, so they were mostly 2D projects. I'd for sure desire to improve on my abilities in design and execution, as I'd hate to wind up wasting people's money.
 

Arionis

New member
Oct 19, 2008
466
0
0
You know, now that AC UNITY and Warframe have released, I feel even more confident that this could, and should, be done.