Poll: Crowdfunding with demos

[esserin]

I've seen plenty of posts about how people don't do crowdfunding anymore cause they're worried the game will never actually get made.
But what if a game has a demo? While it isn't a complete game, a demo shows that the developers have been able to work together and put something of value out.
For example: Just yesterday, I found a demo for a game, Crosscode [https:/www.cross-code.com/en/home], a 2D action-rpg that brings me back to the mana series. Because of that demo, I'm now funding the game and I doubt I would have done that otherwise.

So, does a demo eliminate the risk of supporting a crowdfunding campaign for you?

Edit: Also, can somebody explain how links work? Cause mine isn't working and I can't figure out why. :/
Edit: Problem solved

 

[Mutant1988]

To me it's pretty much a minimum requirement. If you can't provide a working prototype, then why should be believe that you are able to deliver a finished product?

[link]http://www.cross-code.com/en/home[/link]

Edit: Also, can somebody explain how links work? Cause mine isn't working and I can't figure out why. :/

Put it inside a [link] tag (Add /link to the second).

 

[esserin]

To me it's pretty much a minimum requirement. If you can't provide a working prototype, then why should be believe that you are able to deliver a finished product?

But what about games like darkest dungeon? They did have a playable version but most people never actually got to play it. Do you need to play the demo or does knowing that it exists enough for you?

Also, thanks helping with the link.

 

[Mutant1988]

To me it's pretty much a minimum requirement. If you can't provide a working prototype, then why should be believe that you are able to deliver a finished product?

But what about games like darkest dungeon? They did have a playable version but most people never actually got to play it. Do you need to play the demo or does knowing that it exists enough for you?

Also, thanks helping with the link.

I can't really say, because I have personally not ever supported a Kickstarter. I'm against paying for any kind of product in advance, especially when the very existence of the product can be doubtful. I also just don't have the money to spare for it.

But yes, I do appreciate a demo just existing, in any context. It shows effort, ability and passion to release something that shows what you can do and what you want to ultimately accomplish.

Or just have a demo to inform customers of the quality of an existing product in the most immediate way, rather than by second hand accounts like reviews.

Can it backfire? Sure. But usually that is because your product just isn't very good. That indicates that you are not ready to take other people's money, nor deserve to.

I do think a developers or publisher should shoulder the primary economical risk, as a counter balance to the fact that they are the ones able to profit millions from it. But I do appreciate how Kickstarters allow a distributed investment and thus a lesser individual loss if a project fails. It's a balancing thing, but I think the latter should be reserved for upstart studios or singular projects. It should not be considered a standard business model. Again, that's because I object to paying in advance for a product of indeterminate quality.

 

[danielbishop56]

I have been having this debate with my team over my upcoming project. Most of my team insists that offering (or even showing) a demo is damaging, even though we have one ready, because the best way to think of a Kickstarter is that you are selling an idea, a dream, a concept. If you show an early build then it is harder to offer people that concept or dream because they will be mentally stuck on how underdeveloped the game looks now.

I personally agree with Mutant1988, that it is more important to show that the game is making decent progress and is already something that works (even if not perfectly) and build trust in that way that the team can deliver a product. It is very hard to settle the debate unfortunately, so I am also very interested in peoples' thoughts.

 

[Mutant1988]

I have been having this debate with my team over my upcoming project. Most of my team insists that offering (or even showing) a demo is damaging, even though we have one ready, because the best way to think of a Kickstarter is that you are selling an idea, a dream, a concept. If you show an early build then it is harder to offer people that concept or dream because they will be mentally stuck on how underdeveloped the game looks now.

I personally agree with Mutant1988, that it is more important to show that the game is making decent progress and is already something that works (even if not perfectly) and build trust in that way that the team can deliver a product. It is very hard to settle the debate unfortunately, so I am also very interested in peoples' thoughts.

Now this is where I want to make a distinction between a kickstarter and general advertisement of game. You're not supposed to advertise an idea. You are supposed to show your investors that you can deliver the product you promise to. And those that donate to a kickstarter are investors in every sense but getting a revenue percentage of the final product.

A developer that can't show of a working prototype or continuous progress is not fit to seek funding nor to work in the industry in any professional capacity. I know that's harsh, but it's a fact. If you can't show what you can do and show that you can meet deadlines or goals, no one will ever hire you for any kind of job. And committing to a kickstarter is essentially an employment, and not a hobbyist activity.

That said, it all depends on how much faith you can have people put into your abilities, but I believe the best way to instil confidence is to exhibit ability, confidence and reasonable goals.

If you aren't able to do such a thing, you are better of sticking to hobbyist development, get some product out that way and/or build up your portfolio and then trying again later.

 

[Pyrian]

I keep hearing from data people that demos are bad for sales, but... I would've never bought The Talos Principle at full price without the demo, for example. I would've waited a year or so for a big sale, at least.

 

[esserin]

I have been having this debate with my team over my upcoming project. Most of my team insists that offering (or even showing) a demo is damaging, even though we have one ready, because the best way to think of a Kickstarter is that you are selling an idea, a dream, a concept. If you show an early build then it is harder to offer people that concept or dream because they will be mentally stuck on how underdeveloped the game looks now.

I personally agree with Mutant1988, that it is more important to show that the game is making decent progress and is already something that works (even if not perfectly) and build trust in that way that the team can deliver a product. It is very hard to settle the debate unfortunately, so I am also very interested in peoples' thoughts.

Just don't make the mistake of a crappy demo, no demo is better than a bad one.
That's a mistake a lot of developers can make. You show the first few minutes of the game but it's slow and none of the mechanics are really shown, so everybody thinks that the game is just as slow as the first few minutes.

That or for some reason, the demo is a buggy mess. Usually, because the demo was outsourced to focus on the actual game.

Here's an extra credits episode that talks about this: [link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QM6LoaqEnY[/link]
It's interesting and my conclusion from it was that you should treat the demo as seriously as the actual game otherwise you're wasting everyone's time.


Not a lot of votes but, so far, demos don't seem to have as big an effect as I would have thought.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

A demo doesn't show you will be able to finish the game. Not really away. I mean I have seen lots of games with almost complete games trip, fall and never finish. Kickstarter also seems more like an idea place. Your judged more on how cool your idea is not really if it can be implemented. Having a scaled down demo just gives the impression of a scaled down idea.

I guess it's a good sounding thing to say we have a playable demo, but I haven't been motivated to excitement by a demo yet. I'm really easy to excite too.

 

[danielbishop56]

Its really tough to know which side of the line to fall. We are literally a couple of weeks away from a working demo, but most of my team insists it would be a bad idea to show it and instead favors trying to just sell the idea of the game with a hard push on concept art.

Like people said, concepts get people excited, but demos offer trust and confidence.

Maybe the best approach is to offer demos only to game review sites and game news sites, and only concept art to the general public, and try to get the best of both.

 

[Pyrian]

How's your in-game art? If there's one thing I've noticed about Greenlight, it's that people are brutal about appearance. If you have a fun little demo that looks good, that's one thing, but if there's still placeholder art... Keep it under wraps.

 

[StreamerDarkly]

A demo doesn't show you will be able to finish the game. Not really away. I mean I have seen lots of games with almost complete games trip, fall and never finish.

It does demonstrate to the potential audience that you just might have the technical chops to deliver on the idea. This is important for developers who don't have a big name reputation to coast on.

It also shows that you're willing to put a bit of elbow grease into your ideas before expecting a handout. In my eyes, this indicates a level of credibility that the head-in-the-clouds-possible-snake-oil-salesman lacks.

Kickstarter also seems more like an idea place. Your judged more on how cool your idea is not really if it can be implemented. Having a scaled down demo just gives the impression of a scaled down idea.

I guess it's a good sounding thing to say we have a playable demo, but I haven't been motivated to excitement by a demo yet. I'm really easy to excite too.

Your honesty is appreciated. It's just human nature. But do you see why being more responsive to naked hype than actual results is crazy? Have any campaigns you supported ever lived up to the fantastic dreams?

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

A demo doesn't show you will be able to finish the game. Not really away. I mean I have seen lots of games with almost complete games trip, fall and never finish.

It does demonstrate to the potential audience that you just might have the technical chops to deliver on the idea. This is important for developers who don't have a big name reputation to coast on.

It also shows that you're willing to put a bit of elbow grease into your ideas before expecting a handout. In my eyes, this indicates a level of credibility that the head-in-the-clouds-possible-snake-oil-salesman lacks.

Kickstarter also seems more like an idea place. Your judged more on how cool your idea is not really if it can be implemented. Having a scaled down demo just gives the impression of a scaled down idea.

I guess it's a good sounding thing to say we have a playable demo, but I haven't been motivated to excitement by a demo yet. I'm really easy to excite too.

Your honesty is appreciated. It's just human nature. But do you see why being more responsive to naked hype than actual results is crazy? Have any campaigns you supported ever lived up to the fantastic dreams?

People are crazy, or we are crazy for not understanding that we are crazy. Games tend not to live up to what you expect, but that seems to be universal and almost random. I can't tell what devs can deliver and what can't. A demo isn't a guarantee to me because I have seen tons of games with demos or playable alphas that die. I am basically 100% sure that I can't be sure, so I kind of figure gamble big on something that sounds neat.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I would certainly pay more attention to something with playable examples, but that doesn't mean shit will get done it only means they actually have some capability to start.

Sadly when it comes to general consumers it is easier to sell(and make more money) with ludicrous hype shit that will never come to fruition then something completely reasonable that is half done already.

 

[RedDeadFred]

No. The game is still in development and the demo may not necessarily indicative of the final product. The final game could be better or even worse depending on changes that are made.

Then again, I never crowdfund anything...