Poll: Daniel Tosh threatens Woman with Gang Rape

[Sylocat]

This is hilarious. The duty of a satirist is.... sorry I'm having trouble not snorting my pizza through my nose while reading this. This is like one of those anti-smoking campaigns where their goal is to tell you smoking is bad for you. That didn't stop smoking significantly. Outlawing it in a lot places did. Hey there's an idea! Maybe we should outlaw raping so that it's in line with our morals.

Oh, somebody already did that.

It's one of the basic rules of comedy, one that every comedian with even an iota of talent knows: Reinforcing the status quo isn't funny. Attacking those who are already attacked every single day of their lives isn't funny. Again, ask ANY professional comedian with any respect at all among the community. There's a reason everyone outside of their moronic fanbases hate Daniel Tosh, Jay Leno, Gallagher, Bill Burr, Jeff Dunham, Carlos Mencia, &c.

But I do appreciate you getting into a discussion with everyone about this. Discussions are good.

You're quite welcome.

I read your link. It makes a pretty good argument. For everyone else, a shortened version of it is: "There are some men who rape and when questioned they say that they think all men rape. Things like rape jokes give them this impression and that's how you, a perfectly cool guy are contributing to rape"

I don't buy it though: I doubt that beside the odd sociopath/psychopath, it's just something that makes sense to say. It's a shield rapists hide behind. "I don't know why I got convicted. Everyone does it." Just as some people hide behind videogames as murder simulators. If you can't till the difference there's already something seriously wrong with you.

And since one in six women are sexually assaulted during their lifetime, it stands to reason that there are a whole lot of guys with something seriously wrong with them. The other thing you removed during shortening is that more than one in twenty college-age men will admit, in anonymous surveys, to committing rape, and that's just the ones who are stupid enough to admit it.

It's not like Tosh acted like an extremist and tweeted "Could someone please rape that woman?"

No, he just said, "Wouldn't it be funny if[/quote]," which is just as "extreme." Even outside of context, that is still the worst possible way to handle a heckler, and no respectable comedian would do that.

As for point 3.... is your complaint that Tosh isn't popular enough? Then it would have been ok? Toning 'it' down is the worst thing any performer can do.

No, my complaint is that there are places most comedians just aren't talented enough to go, and while I try to avoid using popularity as a measure of quality, it makes a decent yardstick here.

4. As for number 4, it's not really a valid point of critique. If it was, I would tell you right now to listen to my feedback.

Um, you do realize that's exactly what you're doing, right? And I'm not the one making callous jokes about a horrible crime that is perpetrated every day on thousands if not millions of women.

Making rape jokes are ok, making direct personal rape jokes after you interrupt someone's performance are ok too,

No. As I mentioned before, that is an embarrassingly stupid and unprofessional way to handle a heckler. Oh, and I thought you just said it WASN'T a direct and personal joke.

 

[KILGAZOR]

daniel tosh isn't funny, this is an accepted fact and anyone who disagrees isn't in on this reality thing.

I think you need to read up on how comedy works and the differences in human beings and how they think.

The irony in this statement bewilders me.

 

[Khazoth]

After watching a quite eloquent video about a related topic, I heard something i'd like to share with this thread.

"When the first link of the chain is forged, the first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Now this was said by Captain Picard, a fictional character, so we should all feel ashamed that this simple idea is so fantastic it has to be said by a fictional character.



The next time you make a post about a comedian who 'crossed the line', or a flash game 'beyond good taste', be a nerd and think about what Captain Picard said.

daniel tosh isn't funny, this is an accepted fact and anyone who disagrees isn't in on this reality thing.

I think you need to read up on how comedy works and the differences in human beings and how they think.

The irony in this statement bewilders me.

Wasn't implying he was wrong for his opinion, was implying that some people do find Daniel Tosh funny. Comedy works by appealing to a certain crowd, because if you try to appeal to every crowd you end up being mediocre.

 

[Sylocat]

Basic rules of comedy.... It doesn't really work. A lot of people find Tosh's joke funny. A lot of people don't find it funny. Is there any joke everybody finds funny? I remember douglas adams writing "If a person laughs at one out of five of my jokes, I'm doing a pretty good job"

Nope, sorry. Certain sections of the audience (ones who have never had to deal with the topic under discussion) may find it humorous because nothing like it has ever happened to them, but the rule is something that all the best comedians throughout history have sworn by. Carlin, CK, Gervais, even Chris Rock has abandoned his "the difference between black people and niggers" bit because of this. Providing aid and succor for the status quo is the antithesis of comedy.

I'm glad that we're both glad to be discussing though. I really appreciate that.

Taste really shouldn't be part of the discussion, since nothing I will say will make you think the joke is funny. Nothing you will say will make me think the joke is unfunny. I think you will agree with that, at least. Right?

You find it funny because you have never had to deal with sexual assault. It's never been a part of your life. There a lot of topics and jokes that don't bring up trauma that massive sections of the audience has had to deal with every day. And you have no business trying to convince them to find it funny.

What we were talking about is whether the skill of a comedian has to be taken into account when judging if certain jokes are ok or not.

No, it has to be taken into account when judging if that comedian should be dealing with certain subjects. Some people can construct a good joke from sensitive topics and some can't. Tosh can't, he's proven that (at least, going by the reactions of everyone who has experience with the topic of the joke), so he should stick to topics he's capable of doing good jokes about (for the record I think he should also stay away from racial issues, based on what else I've heard of his. In addition to being horrifically sexist, he is also a complete racist).

 

[twohundredpercent]

You find it funny because you have never had to deal with sexual assault. It's never been a part of your life. There a lot of topics and jokes that don't bring up trauma that massive sections of the audience has had to deal with every day. And you have no business trying to convince them to find it funny.

Hehehe ahahahahahahahahahaahaha I fucking love this forum sometimes. Woo man, christ that's....that's just something else. Bravo.

Man it's over. This thread is over. No statement is going to top that. Good night everybody.

 

[KILGAZOR]

daniel tosh isn't funny, this is an accepted fact and anyone who disagrees isn't in on this reality thing.

I think you need to read up on how comedy works and the differences in human beings and how they think.

The irony in this statement bewilders me.

Wasn't implying he was wrong for his opinion, was implying that some people do find Daniel Tosh funny. Comedy works by appealing to a certain crowd, because if you try to appeal to every crowd you end up being mediocre.

It's ironic because you told viking97 that he doesn't know enough about comedy, when in fact you were the one unable to pick up on the humor he was using. He wasn't being serious when he said "daniel tosh isn't funny, this is an accepted fact and anyone who disagrees isn't in on this reality thing." He was exaggerating how unfunny he finds Daniel Tosh is. When someone says something that appears stupid, please be sure that they are trying to be literal with their statements before you try to correct them.

 

[Khazoth]

It's ironic because you told viking97 that he doesn't know enough about comedy, when in fact you were the one unable to pick up on the humor he was using. He wasn't being serious when he said "daniel tosh isn't funny, this is an accepted fact and anyone who disagrees isn't in on this reality thing." He was exaggerating how unfunny he finds Daniel Tosh is. When someone says something that appears stupid, please be sure that they are trying to be literal with their statements before you try to correct them.

The problem with being witty over the internet can be dissected into two problems.


1: I can't hear the smarmy tone that implies your BSing.

2: For something you say intending to sound stupid and obviously joking, there is someone else out there who truly believes that.

That's why its difficult to be funny when writing a blog or written review.

 

[jaketaz]

Tosh is a total douchebag, like Dane Cook. Also, like Dane Cook, his douchiness is a big part of what makes him funny, and I enjoy comedy from both people.

That said, this shit isn't funny. There's a really great article about this whole situation here:

http://austin.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-12-12-14-37-the-best-response-weve-heard-to-daniel-toshs-misquoted-rape-jokes/


It talks about how, if you're going to talk about a touchy subject that has affected one fifth of your female audience, the material needs to be exceptionally sophisticated in order to work. Because the point of jokes on sensitive issues is that they have to be well-thought-out enough to take people past the pain of the issue and see humor in it somehow. Tosh didn't do this, there was nothing sophisticated about it at all, and it wasn't even a joke. Saying "wouldn't it be funny if she got raped" isn't a joke, there is no setup or punchline or zany take on an issue or satire or sarcasm.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

snip

Arguing about "sophistication of humor" is avoiding the issue because not everyone is going to agree about what is sophisticated. I don't watch Tosh, I don't care if his jokes are bad or not, I DO care about comedians being allowed to joke about what they want to without some committee hanging over their head and telling them what's acceptable.

I think that article's points are pretty moot overall. Comedians aren't perfect, audiences aren't perfect, people are going to be offended. Comedians aren't trying to cause pain, but if someone was offended then they took the comedian's words as painful even IF it wasn't the intention.

 

[jaketaz]

snip

Arguing about "sophistication of humor" is avoiding the issue because not everyone is going to agree about what is sophisticated. I don't watch Tosh, I don't care if his jokes are bad or not, I DO care about comedians being allowed to joke about what they want to without some committee hanging over their head and telling them what's acceptable.

I think that article's points are pretty moot overall. Comedians aren't perfect, audiences aren't perfect, people are going to be offended. Comedians aren't trying to cause pain, but if someone was offended then they took the comedian's words as painful even IF it wasn't the intention.

Why did you put "sophistication of humor" in quotes?

Sophistication isn't the point of the article. It explains why the offended people were offended, and why that is well within reason. The discussion about sophistication is relevant because it demonstrates how to make something inoffensive that is usually offensive, and the only reason anyone is talking about this is because people were offended.

No committee is going to form that will decide what is acceptable for comedians to talk about. That was never on the table.

 

[Numb1lp]

Well Daniel Tosh's main category of comedy is dark humor. Sometimes it delves into incredibly dark areas. Being offended at what he does is like being offended at Lisa Lampanelli for calling anyone that looks even slightly effeminate a ******.

Its just what they do.

Yeah. Pretty much this.

In case you're not familiar with Daniel Tosh's work...


He's not exactly politically correct.

I get that rape and gender politics have become a hot topic for the general community lately, but it's not unacceptable to crack a bit of dark humor, even if it might be in poor taste.

Dark humor can be very funny when generalized, but when he says it would be funny for a specific girl to be raped, that's taking it too far.

 

[shrekfan246]

Dark humor can be very funny when generalized, but when he says it would be funny for a specific girl to be raped, that's taking it too far.

This thread is still going? Wow.

I already said that I don't think what he did was justified. But the original question of this thread was if rape jokes were acceptable, and I think they are. Tosh took it too far, but I'm not going to hold a grudge against every person who says something stupid or insensitive, or else I'd have personal grudges against half of the people I've ever met in my life.

 

[marche45]

Just to clarify,their is a difference between thinking rape is funny,and thinking rape jokes are funny.
Jezebel covered it well:
http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Why did you put "sophistication of humor" in quotes?

Weird habit of mine.

Sophistication isn't the point of the article. It explains why the offended people were offended, and why that is well within reason.

But you just seemed to combine the two. And it was the same vibe I got from the article.

It talks about how, if you're going to talk about a touchy subject that has affected one fifth of your female audience, the material needs to be exceptionally sophisticated in order to work.

As for people being offended. Getting offended is within everyone's rights as a human being, not sure what you're trying to say.

No committee is going to form that will decide what is acceptable for comedians to talk about. That was never on the table.

When you argue about sophistication, it does. People are not a hive-mind, I can easily come back with the question "What about the people who don't want sophisticated humor?"

The discussion about sophistication is relevant because it demonstrates how to make something inoffensive that is usually offensive, and the only reason anyone is talking about this is because people were offended.

ONE woman was offended. She heckled and was responded to. She posted about it on the internet. Now people are trying to petition for Tosh to be removed from Comedy Central solely for doing his job.

 

[Sylocat]

Okay, now you've gone off the far end.
Carlin, CK, Gervais, Chris rock abandoned ****** jokes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il1sgQUtYs8

There's three of them joking about that word. There are other examples in CK's and Chris Rock's material. I remember some ****** jokes of louis CK. And I'm having a hard time believing Carlin shied away from any topic.

I said Rock abandoned that specific routine (not jokes about the word "******" itself) because that specific routine made it easier for racists to justify their racism. For the others I was referring to that rule that reinforcing the status quo isn't funny. Which, as I mentioned before, is a rule that every half-decent comedian swears by. As I said, there's a reason that Daniel Tosh, Gallagher, Bill Burr, Jeff Dunham, Carlos Mencia &c. are despised throughout the community.

Sorry, but you're so obviously wrong here. You need to admit this.

If I'm wrong, you have a better chance of proving it by addressing the actual point I made, rather than strawmanning me.

You find it funny because you have never had to deal with sexual assault. It's never been a part of your life. There a lot of topics and jokes that don't bring up trauma that massive sections of the audience has had to deal with every day. And you have no business trying to convince them to find it funny.

Yeah? You sure about that? I'm not really comfortable discussing that history, so please don't make it that personal and more serious.

This is serious and it should be serious. If I'm wrong I apologize, but (and don't take this the wrong way) you're making it very, very easy to jump to that conclusion. Many of the things Tosh's defenders are saying in this thread are a textbook example of "how to tell when a man has never been sexually assaulted, and none of the women of his acquaintance are comfortable enough around him to admit that they have."

As I said, you can't convince anyone to find something funny or unfunny. I'm not saying other people should find it funny. What I am saying is that your criticism of skill should be a factor into what jokes someone is allowed to make.

This isn't about what jokes someone is "allowed" to make. This is about what topics are possible for a comedian to address well. For more details, read this [http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke].

So what is your suggestion? Stoning? Censorship? Hanging? Ostracism? Sending hate mail? Try to get him fired? What? You're saying he shouldn't. It's a free country. What do you propose?

I'm proposing that the woman who got publicly threatened with rape not get pilloried by a bunch of ignorant morons who have never had to (and probably will never have to) deal with the actual real-world consequences of this topic. For more details, watch this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5972-Rape-vs-Murder].

 

[JarinArenos]

It seems to me like this is fairly straightforward. Let's accept some basic premises:

1) No topic is officially "off limits". You want to joke about rape, you can.
2) Jokes do not exist in a vaccum, they are sent out to an audience, which will have reactions.
3) Negative reactions can damage both a comedian's reputation and the reputation of anyone employing him.

look at it a different way. Say you drive a forklift for a living. This can be done completely safely and without incident. But it is also inherently dangerous, and if you dick around and ram your forklift into a $3B private jet, expect to be losing your goddamn job.

Tosh screwed up. The only real question to be determined is if he did enough damage to lose his job.

 

[viking97]

daniel tosh isn't funny, this is an accepted fact and anyone who disagrees isn't in on this reality thing.

I think you need to read up on how comedy works and the differences in human beings and how they think.

*facepalm*
>tells me to read up on comedy

>doesn't get very obvious sarcasm