roflmao (i can't believe i just said that, i feel so dirty) anyway, that poster says the truth. Vader was a Pansie for going back over to the light.Evil Jak said:
Poll: Dark Lords
- Thread starter Mray3460
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I'm not talking about the actual title of "Dark Lord," I'm focusing more on the "Dark Lord" architype. I.E. A person of supreme authority and power, who is uniformly portrayed by the storyteller as evil. This is why Jadis counts as evil and Vader doesn't: Jadis never has a redeeming moment and answers to no-one, Vader eventually redeems himself and, beforehand, answers to Palpatine.Ken_J said:
Vader was created before Revan in real life and therefore Revan's character was inspired by Vader. And it's 4000 years, not 5000, but that's just nitpickinghippykiller said:
Revan did as well in the canon ending of KotOR.hippykiller said:
Controlling both sides of a war is not being a master of war, that would fall under manipulation.ZeroMachine said:I suggest we end this and agree to disagree after this in order to avoid derailing the thread/causing a flame war, but you just listed everything I listed about Sidious.Evil Jak said:
"Sith value power above all else"
No Sith had as much power as Sidious. He ruled the galaxy. An entire GALAXY. You can't get much more power than that.
"Master of war"
Sidious was fighting a two front war... against himself. He was in control of both the Republic's army, later the Empire's army, and the Seperatists through Count Dooku. Also, up until Galen Marek and Luke Skywalker, he kept all rebellion in check as emperor.
"Corruption, manipulation"
This is exactly how Sidious, as Palpatine, gained power. He manipulate and corrupted hundreds of politicians, generals, and the like in order to take over.
"Death"
If you mean killing thousands, Sidious does cover this. I'll admit I don't know who killed more, so Revan may have the upper hand here, but if we're talking power over death, Sidious wins. He was the first Sith to come back from the grave. He created clones of himself, and brought his spirit back from death using the force to inhabit the clones. Revan never did this, as it can only be assumed he died a Jedi.
As for killing beasts, men, and destroying a planet, well... Death Star. 'Nuff said.
I'm sorry if I'm getting all Sidious-fanboy on ya, but you have to look at the facts.
Palpatine: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sidious
Revan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan
Again, let's end this here. I'm willing to continue the discussion through PM's if we keep it civil, which I'm sure we can manage, but we shouldn't derail this thread any further
And Sith dont value power as a collective, they value an individuals power. If you arent strong then you arent fit to rule the Sith, hence all of the betrayals.
And I do look at the facts, everything that Revan acheived he did so individually. Turning the tide of the Mandalorian War so drastically, on his own. Taking over the Sith, he did on his own. Goes to fight the ACTUAL Sith in the Outer Rim, on his own. And everyone knows that the ACTUAL Sith are the generally more powerful than most other Force-users. And he did what Sidious did except he fought openly for the Republic, training them and winning the war and then he changes sides and fights what he created... the people he trained knowing his battle tactics and such and still pushed them to the brink of destruction without an infinite fleet.
And yes, we will have to agree to disagree because I have just taken some sleeping pills and things are getting crazy.
Hah, alright, goodnight buddy. I haven't had a good nerd-off like that in a while. Cheers!Evil Jak said:Controlling both sides of a war is not being a master of war, that would fall under manipulation.ZeroMachine said:I suggest we end this and agree to disagree after this in order to avoid derailing the thread/causing a flame war, but you just listed everything I listed about Sidious.Evil Jak said:
"Sith value power above all else"
No Sith had as much power as Sidious. He ruled the galaxy. An entire GALAXY. You can't get much more power than that.
"Master of war"
Sidious was fighting a two front war... against himself. He was in control of both the Republic's army, later the Empire's army, and the Seperatists through Count Dooku. Also, up until Galen Marek and Luke Skywalker, he kept all rebellion in check as emperor.
"Corruption, manipulation"
This is exactly how Sidious, as Palpatine, gained power. He manipulate and corrupted hundreds of politicians, generals, and the like in order to take over.
"Death"
If you mean killing thousands, Sidious does cover this. I'll admit I don't know who killed more, so Revan may have the upper hand here, but if we're talking power over death, Sidious wins. He was the first Sith to come back from the grave. He created clones of himself, and brought his spirit back from death using the force to inhabit the clones. Revan never did this, as it can only be assumed he died a Jedi.
As for killing beasts, men, and destroying a planet, well... Death Star. 'Nuff said.
I'm sorry if I'm getting all Sidious-fanboy on ya, but you have to look at the facts.
Palpatine: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sidious
Revan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan
Again, let's end this here. I'm willing to continue the discussion through PM's if we keep it civil, which I'm sure we can manage, but we shouldn't derail this thread any further
And Sith dont value power as a collective, they value an individuals power. If you arent strong then you arent fit to rule the Sith, hence all of the betrayals.
And I do look at the facts, everything that Revan acheived he did so individually. Turning the tide of the Mandalorian War so drastically, on his own. Taking over the Sith, he did on his own. Goes to fight the ACTUAL Sith in the Outer Rim, on his own. And everyone knows that the ACTUAL Sith are the generally more powerful than most other Force-users. And he did what Sidious did except he fought openly for the Republic, training them and winning the war and then he changes sides and fights what he created... the people he trained knowing his battle tactics and such and still pushed them to the brink of destruction without an infinite fleet.
And yes, we will have to agree to disagree because I have just taken some sleeping pills and things are getting crazy.
Hm... good point.SomeBritishDude said:
You have Big Brother (a nonexistent figurehead) listed as a Dark Lord, but not Voldemort? That's...kinda surprising.Mray3460 said:
I mean, my vote still goes towards Sauron (yes, even over Morgoth, the gambit with the Rings of Power was that badass), but Voldemort is still pretty high up there. If you get over the fact that he's basically localized in Britain, he's a cold-blooded psychopath, master of asstons of dark magic, terrorizes a large geographical area even after his apparent death, and manages to be essentially unkillable except through convoluted means.
Hardcore? If I remember right, his fortress got broken into and a jewel stolen from his crown by and elf, a man, and a dog. And what was he doing while all this was happening? Sleeping.Jamous said:
He also got maimed by an elf.
Fail.
Exar Kun. He enslaved an entire planet (Yavin IV, yes the planet from New Hope). He also took on several hundred Jedi when the Old Republic was in it's prime and didn't exactly lose. Instead of dying, he drained the entire native population of the planet's life force and used it to bind his spirit to the Sith temples there.
He resurfaced 4000 years later to kill some of Luke's Jedi students and put Luke in to some sort of coma-like state. He also converted a student to the dark side, who then went on to steal the Sun Crusher (size of a tie fighter, invulnerable, and more powerful than the death star). Kun was eventually defeated, but I know in the future some author is gonna use him again because of his shear badassery.
He INVENTED the double-bladed lightsaber (don't you dare say it was Maul), could change the length and intensity of it at will, throwing off his opponents, and he could fly. I'll say it again, HE COULD FLY. Oh, and this was before he found Sith artifacts that amplified his power many, many times over.
He did a whole lot more evil things that I'm too lazy to list, so here's a very limited wiki page on him.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Exar_Kun
He resurfaced 4000 years later to kill some of Luke's Jedi students and put Luke in to some sort of coma-like state. He also converted a student to the dark side, who then went on to steal the Sun Crusher (size of a tie fighter, invulnerable, and more powerful than the death star). Kun was eventually defeated, but I know in the future some author is gonna use him again because of his shear badassery.
He INVENTED the double-bladed lightsaber (don't you dare say it was Maul), could change the length and intensity of it at will, throwing off his opponents, and he could fly. I'll say it again, HE COULD FLY. Oh, and this was before he found Sith artifacts that amplified his power many, many times over.
He did a whole lot more evil things that I'm too lazy to list, so here's a very limited wiki page on him.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Exar_Kun
I have to say Sauron. He was pretty much the original Dark Lord. He's bent on complete world domination--a very suitable Dark Lord goal--and he's willing to go to any extent to reach it. His right-hand (undead)man is nearly immortal, and all of his lieutenants are capable of taking on a small army on their own. He has legion upon legion of pissed-off grunts to conquer things for him, and when he was at full power he could back them up with all manner of dark sorcery as well. Plus there's that scene in the first film where he's casually sweeping entire ranks of elite Numenorean soldiers aside with his seven-foot mace, which pretty well sets his badassery in stone.
Of course, he did make the dumbshit decision of pouring all of his power into a ring, a fact which screwed him over twice. The first time all the good guys had to do was whack off the finger with the ring on it, which caused his physical body to go up in smoke. And then, once he was just a malevolent soul floating around in his tower, some four-foot tall guy with big feet throws the ring into a volcano, which causes his soul, as well as all of his commanding officers, to go up in smoke as well. The only good thing he got out of the ring was the Nazgul, who, while powerful, just had to be stabbed in the face by a woman instead of a man and that was it for them too. You'd think Sauron could come up with a better way to control peoples' minds than making an all-or-nothing gamble, which he eventually lost anyway.
So, the greatest Dark Lord on this list who made one incredibly stupid decision.
Of course, he did make the dumbshit decision of pouring all of his power into a ring, a fact which screwed him over twice. The first time all the good guys had to do was whack off the finger with the ring on it, which caused his physical body to go up in smoke. And then, once he was just a malevolent soul floating around in his tower, some four-foot tall guy with big feet throws the ring into a volcano, which causes his soul, as well as all of his commanding officers, to go up in smoke as well. The only good thing he got out of the ring was the Nazgul, who, while powerful, just had to be stabbed in the face by a woman instead of a man and that was it for them too. You'd think Sauron could come up with a better way to control peoples' minds than making an all-or-nothing gamble, which he eventually lost anyway.
So, the greatest Dark Lord on this list who made one incredibly stupid decision.
I said "Other", because we need to remember this:
Had Luke not been Vader's son, he would have struck him down. He still had hopes they could both defeat Palatine. Things just went to fast. He didn't want to live in a world where he reigned with no remaining loved ones (episode 3, if it did nothing else, proved that).
But he looses lots of brownie points for cheap-shooting Mace. Mace Windoe could have taken him in a 1 on 1 any day of the week at that point (his broody, aingsty and poor acting phase).
Had Luke not been Vader's son, he would have struck him down. He still had hopes they could both defeat Palatine. Things just went to fast. He didn't want to live in a world where he reigned with no remaining loved ones (episode 3, if it did nothing else, proved that).
But he looses lots of brownie points for cheap-shooting Mace. Mace Windoe could have taken him in a 1 on 1 any day of the week at that point (his broody, aingsty and poor acting phase).
I say Alucard as he is actually Dracula, the original dark lord. Also he can heal from any manner of physical injury, transform his body into ANYTHING, may be able to be in multiple places at once, I haven't seen enough of the OVA to know, and can kick Supermans ass all because he is magic.