Poll: Darth Vader: Lawful or Chaotic?

[Greyhald]

Neither. He's Neutral Evil.

Nah. He does everything to maintain the order of His boss on top, everyone else underneath.

That's lawful.

He also believes in the Force and the way to use it, which follows a set of Laws. He also follows the Jedi and then the Sith, both Lawful There's a bunch of reaosns he can't be neutral.

 

[aeric90]

Are you at work right now? Huh?!

I'm writing, thus I'm working. But now...a bit of Arkham Asylum I think.

BTW: Bats: Lawful Neutral.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, the way I see it is Batman is LG

Sort of deviating here but a vigilante by very definition can't be Lawful, right? Wouldn't he best be described as Neutral Good or Chaotic Good? Performing actions altruistically but with little regard to the means applied? I can see where he might lean to Lawful Neutral but he has a distinct desire to do good for his own reasons, not because someone tells him to or due to or because he's paid to.

 

[Toaster Hunter]

Lawful, without a doubt. He is trying to bring order to the galaxy, which makes him lawful

 

[Calatar]

Archetypal Lawful Evil.
In prequels: Chaotic Good
Apparently the black helmet is a Helm of Opposite Alignment.
One smoooooth transition there Lucas.
Whiny kid-> whiny emo teenager-> whiny adult renegade-> whiny adult sociopath-> cosmic badass-> proud father-> ghost partying with Yoda and Obi-Wan

 

[orangecharger]

Wow. Um. I think I just broke the dial on my "Nerd Alert" monitor. I thought I was a Star Wars nerd, but you have humbled me . I will be sure to consult you for any Star Wars debate that I ever have. All I can say beyond that is bravo my good man.

Edit: My vote is LE.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Huh... never thought of that as neutral... not sure if I agree completely, but it is interesting food for thought... So than who would you put as chaotic evil?

CE is usually someone who works purely for their own advancement, and the destruction of others. Joker doesn't really work for anything other than bringing down order.

You get a similar dichotomy with the Daleks who are a Neutral Evil race run by either the Golden Dalek (Lawful Evil) or Davros (who is CE personified). Papa Lazarou, the Ice Truck Killer and the Unbrella Corporation are Chaotic Evil. (It's the only way their business model makes sense )

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, the way I see it is Batman is LG

Bats tries to be LG, but he's too obsessed with the Law to make it work. That's why he's diametrically opposed to Joker. Bruce Wayne could do so much more with his money than be a philanthropist (Jeezuz...look at Gotham), but he's too busy making people obey THE LAW. Same as Joe Dredd.

[BTW, this is just my opinion, I know there are quite a few who disagree]

Sort of deviating here but a vigilante by very definition can't be Lawful, right? Wouldn't he best be described as Neutral Good or Chaotic Good? Performing actions altruistically but with little regard to the means applied? I can see where he might lean to Lawful Neutral but he has a distinct desire to do good for his own reasons, not because someone tells him to or due to or because he's paid to.

Vigilantes can be lawful. Spidey is Neutral Good only because of Triple J; otherwise he's often seen as LG.
Bats has a special "Get out of jail free" from Gordon though. And Batman upholds the Law in everything he does. That's what made him Batman. (Also makes him dull and reasonably short-sighted in the way of the world, but he's no Paladin)

All I can say beyond that is bravo my good man.

Ta

Although, there are many views to Batman.

Spoiler: Huge JPG

 

[cefm]

Vader is the sci-fi equivalent of the Nazi. He wants to bring stability and order to the remnants of the Old Republic by any means necessary. His desired end-state is a stable and orderly government (lawful) and he intends to achieve it even by doing great harm to innocents (evil).

D&D in its early phases used the "chaotic evil" alignment too liberally - it truly should only be applied to those who desire actual chaos, and there aren't many of them.

 

[Sovvolf]

Are you at work right now? Huh?!

I'm writing, thus I'm working. But now...a bit of Arkham Asylum I think.

BTW: Bats: Lawful Neutral.

Mmm surely not. I'm sure Bats is Lawful Good. As noted with the Joker explanation. Neutral means your not taking any side. Bats does take the side of good and is lawful. Not quite to the point of Superman but still Good.

Though to be honest, I'm a little new to this D&D LG CG thing so I might have it mixed up.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Mmm surely not. I'm sure Bats is Lawful Good. As noted with the Joker explanation. Neutral means your not taking any side. Bats does take the side of good and is lawful. Not quite to the point of Superman but still Good.

Bats does try to be good, but only when he can and stay lawful.

Bats has had break-ups with every person whose ever worked with him and he always lets the villains get away.

Bats can't though because of that fine balance. The GOOD thing to do wouldn't be the LAWFUL thing to do, and he ALWAYS picks the Lawful way.

The Joker is there to cause chaos, and maybe do some evil on the way. Bats is there to uphold order, and try to do some good.

Penguin is LE, Poison Ivy is NE, Harley is CG slipping to CN, Two-Face is True Neutral, Killer Croc is also N, but he's Animal Neutral; Riddler is Neutral and keeps slipping between Chaos and Lawful because of his nature.

But yeah, Anakin starts CG, slips to LE in the "Noooooo" bit and then returns to CG after what he sees he's become.

 

[Kenko]

Neither, he's Neutral Evil i'd say.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

So I need a popular vote to settle something between my roommate and I. We were discussing the other day whether Darth Vader is Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil, according to the Dungeons & Dragons alignment system.
The guidelines:
1. No prequel material counts when discussing his development as a character. Everything involving Vader must be based off pre-1999 Star Wars lore.
2. For those of you who have read them, all books, comics and other media may be taken into account (assuming they were published before 1999).

Darth Vader doesn't do what he wants, when he wants. He has a system and is a force of thwe emporer. Being chaotic would mean he is unpredictable and just wanted to kill shit, whereas he is bringing order to the galazy through evil.

Lawful Evil

 

[kypsilon]

If it helps, there is a classic D&D alignment quiz that has Dearth Vader listed on it and he is used as the variable for LE. Atilla the Hun was used for CE.

 

[Sovvolf]

Mmm surely not. I'm sure Bats is Lawful Good. As noted with the Joker explanation. Neutral means your not taking any side. Bats does take the side of good and is lawful. Not quite to the point of Superman but still Good.

Bats does try to be good, but only when he can and stay lawful.

Bats has had break-ups with every person whose ever worked with him and he always lets the villains get away.

Bats can't though because of that fine balance. The GOOD thing to do wouldn't be the LAWFUL thing to do, and he ALWAYS picks the Lawful way.

The Joker is there to cause chaos, and maybe do some evil on the way. Bats is there to uphold order, and try to do some good.

Penguin is LE, Poison Ivy is NE, Harley is CG slipping to CN, Two-Face is True Neutral, Killer Croc is also N, but he's Animal Neutral; Riddler is Neutral and keeps slipping between Chaos and Lawful because of his nature.

But yeah, Anakin starts CG, slips to LE in the "Noooooo" bit and then returns to CG after what he sees he's become.

I see... Nicely put.

Mmm I wonder what The Punisher would be?. CG?... I mean it's confusing based on the writer. He doesn't exactly go by the law (Given the mass murder) however in the Ennis books he seems to have a moral code that seems to lend it self to LG. He's strictly against evil acts even if the means are good. Like selling Cocaine to finance a military operation that would lead to a lot of bad, evil men being taken down (Sorry if this comes of as a little jumbled, I don't know if you've read the Ennis books or if anyone else here as and revealing too much creates a major spoiler for one the story arcs).

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Mmm I wonder what The Punisher would be?. CG?... I mean it's confusing based on the writer. He doesn't exactly go by the law (Given the mass murder) however in the Ennis books he seems to have a moral code that seems to lend it self to LG. He's strictly against evil acts even if the means are good. Like selling Cocaine to finance a military operation that would lead to a lot of bad, evil men being taken down (Sorry if this comes of as a little jumbled, I don't know if you've read the Ennis books or if anyone else here as and revealing too much creates a major spoiler for one the story arcs).

Punisher is also CN I think. Unlike the Joker, who is sociopathic, Punisher is trying to be good. Like the Joker, however, he believes his rules are the only ones that matter. You don't become Good just by fighting Evil, you become Good by not being Evil. Even Rorschach is just CN.

Gordon Freeman would probably be CG, Jack Thompson is heading towards CE at the moment.

 

[baka52]

putting it in to perspective
lawful evil: darth vader
neutral evil: boba fett
chaotic evil: the emperor

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

LE SNIP

God damnit man you are an amazing font of information on the alignment system, mind stopping by my game and explaining some of the alignments to my players? They just can't grasp the idea of either LG or CN...


Also friend request incoming in case i need to send you a message for help with alignments

 

[RatRace123]

He's basically the face of the oppressive evil empire.

So, Lawful Evil.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I'd say Lawful Evil as he is pretty much the Empires enforcer.

http://kimchiicecream.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/star-wars-lawful-evil.jpg

I love this picture. Lawful Evil wins just because of this picture.

 

[BabySinclair]

putting it in to perspective
lawful evil: darth vader
neutral evil: boba fett
chaotic evil: the emperor

Have to disagree with the last two and say they're both LE. Both follow codes and their own personal standards. Fett operates mostly within the law as a bounty hunter which is a valid occupation. Palpy is far two organized and puts too much forethought into his actions to be chaotic.

As for Han, to quote the Complete Scoundrel supplement (3.5) "Neutral: Scoundrels of this alingment are opportunists. They are concerned with themselves above all else, taking what they can get, although not purposely try to hurt others..." and then lists Han as an example. True he shot first but if someone had a gun on you and was going to shoot you at any moment wouldn't you try to shoot first? Self defense isn't an evil action.

LE: Fett
LN: James Bond
LG: Batman (has his own code of ethics)
NE: Mystique
N: Han
NG: Zorro
CE: Carl Denham
CN: Captain Jack Sparrow
CG: Malcom Reynolds