Poll: Dear Esther- Should it be considered a game?

[cjspyres]

A discussion thread about whether or not Dear Esther should be considered a game, or something or a different title. Now, what this is not about is whether or not it's good or bad. So, I'll start by giving my opinion.

Do I think Dear Esther should be considered a game? No, not at all. I think at the very most, it is an "interactive poem", and that's really stretching the meaning of "interactive". The definition for a game is: "A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck". And I believe that Dear Esther lacks the rules, and requirements of skill or luck.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Dear Esther has one point where the story is interactive, ergo game. (IMO). Pretentious game, but game nonetheless.

 

[anthony87]

What I wanna know is how come Dear Esther can be considered a game and art and amazing and all the other good things I've heard, but then Asuras Wrath has to take shit from people for "not having enough" gameplay?

OT: I'd consider Dear Esther to be more like an interactive audio book rather than a game.

 

[NathLines]

I consider it to be more of an interactive arts gallery.

 

[Baron_BJ]

What I wanna know is how come Dear Esther can be considered a game and art and amazing and all the other good things I've heard, but then Asuras Wrath has to take shit from people for "not having enough" gameplay?

OT: I'd consider Dear Esther to be more like an interactive audio book rather than a game.

I see the hypocrisy as well, though I think that stems more from the fact that Asura's Wrath is a full price retail release and Dear Esther is only $10. Cheaper than a Movie, similar length.

 

[Gatx]

What I wanna know is how come Dear Esther can be considered a game and art and amazing and all the other good things I've heard, but then Asuras Wrath has to take shit from people for "not having enough" gameplay?

OT: I'd consider Dear Esther to be more like an interactive audio book rather than a game.

Well partly because people expected Asura's Wrath to be a traditional, God of War style game. Kill lots of enemies, fight huge bosses that end with a quick time, and so forth. Also, I'd argue too many quick time events, which doesn't really add to the experience as a whole, and are just there to keep you busy during the cutscenes.

Whereas Dear Esther, as an indie game, is expected to be at least a little artsy so it's no problem if it's all artsy.

I see the hypocrisy as well, though I think that stems more from the fact that Asura's Wrath is a full price retail release and Dear Esther is only $10. Cheaper than a Movie, similar length.

Actually Asura's Wrath is presented as a series of episodes, so it's more like a box set for a season of a television series. Besides, any full priced game is going to give you way more content, in terms of gameplay time vs. running time, than movie.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Dear Esther is an interactive book, it's interesting, but it's hardly a game.

Now Journey?

If there was ever a game that defined the 'art game' it would be Journey

Absolute brilliance.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Now Journey?

If there was ever a game that defined the 'art game' it would be Journey

Absolute brilliance.

Yeah, man, your Journey thread is making me really wish I owned a PS3.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Now Journey?

If there was ever a game that defined the 'art game' it would be Journey

Absolute brilliance.

Yeah, man, your Journey thread is making me really wish I owned a PS3.

I'm not saying you should buy a PS3 for Journey.

I'm saying you will buy a PS3 for Journey.

[HEADING=1]Assuming direct control![/HEADING]

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I wouldn't personally describe anything without an objective as a game... you could argue that the objective is getting to the end, but that is questionable!

 

[DEAD34345]

It's an incredibly linear game, but a game nonetheless.

In my opinion, "game" is actually a terrible name for most video games, apart from the ones that are actually like games (Pong, Space invaders, Bit.Trip, that sort of thing). But for whatever reason, it's the name we've got, and Dear Esther fits it pretty much as well as many other so called "games".

 

[anthony87]

Dear Esther is an interactive book, it's interesting, but it's hardly a game.

Now Journey?

If there was ever a game that defined the 'art game' it would be Journey

Absolute brilliance.

Dammit man STOP MAKING ME WANT TO GET THAT GAME!!!

Wait...no. Actually, persuade me more!

 

[Vrach]

Dear Esther has one point where the story is interactive, ergo game. (IMO). Pretentious game, but game nonetheless.

Where?

OT: No. I'd call it a visual novel.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Dear Esther has one point where the story is interactive, ergo game. (IMO). Pretentious game, but game nonetheless.

Where?

OT: No. I'd call it a visual novel.

Isn't there that bit at the end where

Spoiler

you can throw yourself off a lighthouse?

I might be mistaken, though, because if I want to walk around for two hours listening to someone being pretentious, I'll do it IRL with like a podcast or something

 

[DoPo]

The exact same topic (sans the poll, perhaps) came up a couple of weeks back when Dear Esther came out on Steam. I recall people were trying to define "game" which came after failing to define "video game" (because that was just a game but on a computing system of some sort), which briefly went into defining terms used in the definition of "game" (what is a goal, etc.). I don't remember what level of definitions did people hit there. And I'm too lazy to look it up.

I think we can agree that it can be called "interactive entertainment" and we can toss in "video" or something to signify it's related to computers. Also, we can apply the same label to all other video games. And agree that the medium is evolving.

 

[Professor Putricide]

Nope. I haven't personally played it, but I've seen footage and heard a great deal about it (the TotalBiscuit video in particular). It's a semi-interactive audio-book with stunning visuals, but little else.

 

[MammothBlade]

No. It's a virtual novel. That should not be a dirty word, but people should be under no illusions that what they are experiencing is somehow a game. User interactivity is very limited in something such as Dear Esther. Virtual reality novels, the 3D cousins of visual novels.

I accept that many people do enjoy VR novels, but they cannot be played as you would a game. What is there to "play"?

 

[Xannidel]

Dear Esther has you move around, you have a flashlight/torch that turns on and off in darker environments, you have a set goal to end it and it has a story that is being told to you so you can understand what is going on; to me that labels it a game, not a traditional game but a game nonetheless.

 

[Weaver]

If it is then Visual Novels are games too.

The thing is, if you take a rigid definition of a game then it's not really a game. A game is structured play. It has both winning conditions, losing conditions and a set of rules all players (even if it's one) must follow.

However, that definition is a bit dated. Wikipedia sums it up pretty good:


A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more often an expression of aesthetic or ideological elements. However, the distinction is not clear-cut, and many games are also considered to be work (such as professional players of spectator sports/games) or art (such as jigsaw puzzles or games involving an artistic layout such as Mahjong, solitaire, or some video games).

 

[Vrach]

Isn't there that bit at the end where

Spoiler

you can throw yourself off a lighthouse?

I might be mistaken, though, because if I want to walk around for two hours listening to someone being pretentious, I'll do it IRL with like a podcast or something

Spoiler: Nope

When you approach it, the game takes over, climbs you up and throws you off.

There's not a single moment of interaction in the game, all you can do is walk around and there's only one right path (you can diverge from it a few times, but your only reward is the extra several minutes you need to walk back - there's no running).

I didn't hate it. It's an... interesting little story and I liked some of it. It works much better as a mod than a game with an actual price tag on it though. It is not a game however, as I've said, there's nothing interactive about it, it's just a short story set into a game environment with a bit of randomness (the story is triggered at several points, but random lines are triggered, so playing it again isn't exactly the same and someone can get a bit of a different experience than you, despite you both doing the same thing).