Poll: Dev: "Which concept do you like better?"

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ZHDev

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Oct 2, 2010
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EDIT: Thanks to everyone for polling and commenting, we'll take your opinions into considerations. We've already reached the number of polls that we were hoping for (for this site, anyways). If you have any neat ideas that you think would fit in well with either of our projects, we'd be happy to consider them.

Hey, I'm a developer for a starting indy game company, and was wondering which of the two ideas that we've narrowed our project down to you (the gamers) would like better. Please note that both games are 2D. As well, when going through your nefarious calculations to decide which game proposal you personally like more, assume that the game will work, and that it will be of high quality(just getting that out of the way right now). The two ideas are:

A stealth-strategy robbery game: Have you ever wished that you could plan and execute perfect robberies, like the ones in The Italian Job, Oceans (11 through 13) or other heist films. Well, now's your chance.
You are offered a staggering amount of gadgets and weapons, with the only objective being to steal things from secured buildings with excessive amounts of security. Levels are large and non-linear, offering the player the ability to choose whatever path they want: they can skulk through the sewers, parachute onto the roof, or sneak into the locations with fake ID and uniforms. Once inside, the player can hack cameras, dodge (or silence) guard patrols, plant fakes (of whatever you are stealing), steal other treasures (not compulsory, but who can resist the temptation of earning extra moneys?), and in general do whatever you want.
The enemy (and ally) AI is some of the best in the industry: guards have personalities which make them become aggressive, or scared. They can't see you across the map, and you can smooth-talk your way past most confrontations. As an example of the enemy AI, in a demo level we tested, we managed to make the enemy leader believe that one of his guards had stolen his diamond (a fake we had planted on the guard, after disguising ourselves in uniforms), and make him believe that we(the player and their ally) were both killed in an accident.
The game is structured along a series of levels, but a certain amount of freedom is allowed: in-between levels the player roams around their home-base where hired allies will stay, and treasures lie. The player can rob random buildings, stores and banks, or complete optional side-mission chains with various themes (like stealing exotic animals from zoos or private enclosures for eccentric collectors). All of this ends with the player earning money.
To what end, you ask? Well, money can be used for giggles (fancying up your home, decorating it), but also used for serious stuff like buying intel, hiring mercenaries, purchasing new equipment, gambling, and pretty much anything you can think of.
Basically, this game revolves around the idea that you have complete freedom to be a criminal mastermind.

The second game, is nothing at all like the first.

Reckless-shooter gun-fun: Do you ever wish that you could play a shooter where you can hold more weapons than eyeballs? That you can play through a world made of colors other than gunmetal-grey and dogs***-brown? That your character can run at faster than 5mph? If so, then you'll like this project, a game that sacrifices realism in order to have some reckless gun-fun.
Hearkening back to classic shooters like Doom (the original), Painkiller and Serious Sam, you are on one end of extremely over-sized weaponry, and a horde the population of roughly Europe is on the other. Basically, this game elevates "unsophisticated" shooters to new levels, with varied enemies, huge levels and ridiculous weaponry.
This is a game where you punch nazi-dinosaurs in the face.
This is a game where instead of using a parachute, you get a cannon to fire you at the ground.
This is a game where you fight enemies that would require several years of starvation to be called "ginormous".
This is a game where you have fun.

Well, what do you think? Poll results and comments are much appreciated.
 

KefkaCultist

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Jun 8, 2010
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Stealth games are much more fun mainly because theres a reckless shooter being made by most big companies these days

EDIT: reckless shooters are probably easier to make though hence them being made by everyone
 

rockyoumonkeys

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Aug 31, 2010
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Shooter shooter shooter.

I really don't like stealth games at all. Shooting is just a lot more fun than, you know, not shooting.
 

ZHDev

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Oct 2, 2010
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L3m0n_L1m3 said:
Shooting, because stealth is a lot harder to properly create.
Notice how in the opening description I said:
ZHDev said:
assume that the game will work, and that it will be of high quality(just getting that out of the way right now).
 

L3m0n_L1m3

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Jul 27, 2009
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ZHDev said:
L3m0n_L1m3 said:
Shooting, because stealth is a lot harder to properly create.
Notice how in the opening description I said:
ZHDev said:
assume that the game will work, and that it will be of high quality(just getting that out of the way right now).
Sorry, must have missed that.

(I still stick with shooting because I am terrible at stealth regardless.)
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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umm, The first game sounds just like Trillby.

The game designed and produced by Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation acclaim.
 

AssassinJoe

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Oct 1, 2010
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I want to say that I like stealth based gameplay, but then I remember... I like it when stuff blows up. So stealth gameplay probably wouldn't work for me. Plus I do like the idea of punching a nazi dinosaur in the face, so I'll have to go with the second game.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go blow up a car...... in a game.
 

Lullabye

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Oct 23, 2008
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Could you combine both?
Because stealing from Nazi-Dinosaurs would really make my day, any day.

if not, then I'd say go with the stealth. It actually sounds like it requires thought processes to play properly.
 

boholikeu

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Aug 18, 2008
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The second one sounds more interesting, but it'd also be more difficult one to do correctly.

Having said that I wouldn't even give the second idea a try because I already have plenty of other games that do the same thing.
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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there are to many Reckless-shooter gun-fun games out there
[sub]and they all suck[/sub]
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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A problem I have with the first game is that there will obviously be a certain route inside a building that is leagues better than any other, so I'd always have that nagging "did I pick the right route?" feeling.

I'd also prefer a story to the first one rather than "choose whichever building you want! It's a sandbox!"

Still, I'd pick the stealth game, because there aren't enough stealth games.
 

teisjm

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Mar 3, 2009
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The first one sounds really interresting if pulled off correctly, though i can't help to think about how spore sounded prior to release. But if puleld off right, this could be fucking brilliant.

The second game sound like all it's got going is gimmicky rebellion against current FPS's, and all the stuff mentioned could be any shooter severely reskinned.
IMO shooters live or die on teh value of the gameplay, and all the stuff you mention, while it may be fun at first, nazi dinos face punching are just gonna be another meleeing enemy after a short amount of time, bazooka/parachute serves the same purpose, and just becomes a method of getting down after a few tries, and huge huge enemies are just gonan be easy to hit targets after a while.
I'm not saying it's gonan suck, i'm just saying, that without trying the gameplay, this is no different from a generic shooter to me.

So in conclusion, make the firts game, make it good, make it even better, make it awesome, and you'll make me jizz my pants.
 

ZHDev

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Oct 2, 2010
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Altorin said:
umm, The first game sounds just like Trillby.

The game designed and produced by Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation acclaim.
When I'm feeling overly narcissistic I flatter myself by saying that the stealth game would be different from Trillby in that this project has larger, more sprawling levels and more gadgets/weapons/teammates to bring with, thus affording more options. However, it is a worthy comparison.

ultrachicken said:
A problem I have with the first game is that there will obviously be a certain route inside a building that is leagues better than any other, so I'd always have that nagging "did I pick the right route?" feeling.

I'd also prefer a story to the first one rather than "choose whichever building you want! It's a sandbox!"
We've tried to be really open-ended in our level design: there is no "right way"; rather, there are many ways that are just as right. In a demo level we worked on, ten people played it with ten different strategies (some parachuted, some went in through the sewers, some dressed up as guards, some went through ventilation shafts, one clever individual waltzed in while the guards were distracted by the live tiger he released, etc.). Five were clever enough to make it through the level safely, and eight were able to escape with the valuables anyways.
As for story levels, the game was originally designed to be completely linear, progressing from story level to story level. The story-campaign will hold our utmost attention, and only if we have extra time will we try and flesh out the world your character lives in.
 

Hijax

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Jun 1, 2009
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the first has going for it that it seems to, you know, have an identity of its own, on all levels.

Make that, and seriously guys, do not mess this one up.
 

Keava

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Mar 1, 2010
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I'd go with he strategy-robbery, mainly because its under represented theme in games and shooters, well there is plenty of those both in 3d and 2d.

While the shooter option would probably be easier to polish and generally wrap up in a more coherent package, the first idea is just something more intriguing, that if done well, with it's fair share of humour could turn out to be more lasting fun.

Then again you are getting this from person that usually avoids shooters of various kinds, not really interested in shooting just for sake of shooting be it in realistic war scenarios, post apocalyptic high-tech or dark corridor settings. Last shooter id id enjoy was ME but that's mostly due to overall game play and space opera dominating the combat parts.
 

ZHDev

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Oct 2, 2010
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Hijax said:
Make that, and seriously guys, do not mess this one up.
We'll do our best.
kman123 said:
Definitely both elements, BUT focus mainly on stealth. Look at SC Conviction for a mild example. Fast paced stealth action
We considered something like that, but we ran into the inconsistency that the first project is mostly realistic and serious (black humor will occasionally break up the tension, but it isn't silly), while the second project is completely over-the-top. If we tried to make a game that was of both worlds, I'm afraid we'd spread ourselves too thin; we're taking a lot of inspiration from Convictions (the Devs are big fans), but we don't think that Nazi Dinosaurs would fit in.
And it raises the pertinent question of how we could encourage stealth when the player has a weapons stockpile to rival North Korea.
 

Hijax

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Jun 1, 2009
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ZHDev said:
If we tried to make a game that was of both worlds, I'm afraid we'd spread ourselves too thin; we're taking a lot of inspiration from Convictions (the Devs are big fans), but we don't think that Nazi Dinosaurs would fit in.
What kind of crazy scenario makes nazi dinosaurs fit in?

And it raises the pertinent question of how we could encourage stealth when the player has a weapons stockpile to rival North Korea.
In this game world, north korea was recently nuked by the U.S, reducing their weapons stockpile to a handful of guns stashed in bunkers.
 

ZHDev

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Oct 2, 2010
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Hijax said:
ZHDev said:
If we tried to make a game that was of both worlds, I'm afraid we'd spread ourselves too thin; we're taking a lot of inspiration from Convictions (the Devs are big fans), but we don't think that Nazi Dinosaurs would fit in.
What kind of crazy scenario makes nazi dinosaurs fit in?
I was trying to get across that, in concept, the first game has an atmosphere similar to, say, Inception, while the second game has an atmosphere that is more similar to this: http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/203/6/5/Who_is_Flint_Rocket__pg1_by_Skyserpent.png

Hijax said:
ZHDev said:
And it raises the pertinent question of how we could encourage stealth when the player has a weapons stockpile to rival North Korea.
In this game world, north korea was recently nuked by the U.S, reducing their weapons stockpile to a handful of guns stashed in bunkers.
As for this part, I was wondering what you were considering when you suggested combining the two projects: in game A, enemies are dangerous and pose an actual threat. In game B, enemies are squishy targets that serve only to deplete your vast quantities of ammunition. How could they mutually co-exist? If you're suggesting that the first game leave the option of fast-paced stealthy action where you hunt enemies down open, then that was already available in first design.