Yes it should always be an option, within reason, i.e. you need a good reason to get refunded and you only get back the cash it's currently worth.
Poll: Digital Refund - Should it be an Option?
- Thread starter bells
- Start date
Yes, I hate Steam's absolutely BS policy of 1 return ever. Especially since Steam puts games up for Sale that don't work. People are like "oh, but it isn't Steam's fault that the game doesn't work it's the developer's fault." So what, then they shouldn't sell a defective product, take my money, and then tell me though shit. Companies should man up like gog and test the damn games to see if they even run before they sell them.
No you can't.bells said:
You couldn't for years and especially not nowadays where every game locks itself to some online BS so that the physical copy can't be used by someone else unless you give out your password with it.
Consumer rights being trampled on is nothing new when it comes to software.
I think some kind of refund system is essential, especially as we are not usually able to (legitimately) test the product before purchase. I think within seven days of first attempting to use a product, refunds should be given for ANY REASON. "I don't like this game", This game does not work on my system", "Authentication servers are not usable", and of these reasons should immediately warrant a full refund, within a reasonable time period.
Unless a game is inherently broken, as in it does not work due to a failure on the developer's side, a refund is not reasonable to expect. You shouldn't be able to "return" a digital copy just because you don't like it. Do some research beforehand, read reviews, and take the risk. Not only do I think the whole "I didn't like it, give me my money back!" attitude is, dare I say, entitled, but I also think it would be a logistical nightmare to try and manage the returns that would result from the incredibly high standards of most gamers.
Is that really feasible in a world where the majority of games have an average play through time well below the time period you're suggesting to be an automatic refund?Flames66 said:
Not on PC you can't.s69-5 said:
Morally yes, but from a business standpoint it's a terrible idea.
EDIT: Plus, you can try and trade it with other people's games.
EDIT: Plus, you can try and trade it with other people's games.
They can track the numbers of hours played on ervices like steam, I don't think it's unreasonable that they should do refunds for games if you've not spent much time on them, either due to not working or due to other reasons. Say you're eligible get a partial refund if you've only played for two hours total - enough time to test the gameplay, find out about any game breaking bugs but not long enough to really get your money's worth.
It's not unheard of for people to get refunds for digital content. I believe people were able to get refunds from Microsoft for Minecraft when they discovered you couldn't play split screen unless you have an HDTV. Valve refunded people for their Steam versions of Duke Nukem Forever due to a high volume of complaints about the game being utter shit.
I do think that when it comes to enjoying the content though, it's buyer beware. Play the demo first. Be an informed consumer. The internet is right there. In cases of story DLC for games where you can't trial it it's riskier, but you still have the option of doing some research. Finishing the DLC and not liking it is like going to a bakery and asking them to refund you for a cake you just ate because you thought you liked mudcake but what you really wanted today was black forest.
However if the product is faulty, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get your money back.
I do think that when it comes to enjoying the content though, it's buyer beware. Play the demo first. Be an informed consumer. The internet is right there. In cases of story DLC for games where you can't trial it it's riskier, but you still have the option of doing some research. Finishing the DLC and not liking it is like going to a bakery and asking them to refund you for a cake you just ate because you thought you liked mudcake but what you really wanted today was black forest.
However if the product is faulty, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get your money back.
There are a couple of problems there though... first, the fact that some companies don't release Demos... and now it's getting more common for them to release demos AFTER the game launch. Just one more example of the developers crawling away from any need to care for consumer satisfaction properly done...Kermi said:
it's the same with "Betas" now... even if a game is not fully online, it has a "Closer Beta" to generate buzz. The final version being hardly any different from the beta version aside from minor tweeks that the PR people spin as "Vital"... all and all, it's just a glorified Demo for a select few to generate interest on the final product.
As for the DLC/Bakery analogy... actually is more like beinf offered a Black Forest cake only to find it it's just a regular Chocolate Cake with some of those Jelly Fake Cherries on top. I already bought it and payed for it, the bakery has it's own vision of what a Black Forest cake is, and they can make their cakes any way they desire... but as a consumer i should have the right to say "Nop. Take it back, give me something else or my money back."
Well, when you're buying from a digital distribution service, you're not buying a product; you're buying a license to play the game within whatever parameters were set forth in the service's user agreement. That said, while they certainly have no obligation to add a refund system, it would still be nice. Of course, a refund system would be extremely easy for gamers to exploit without certain restrictions. I'm thinking:
-You could only refund within the first week after making the purchase.
-You only get about 90-95% of what you paid refunded to you.
-... Or maybe like what someone else said above, where you just get less refunded to you the longer you've had the game instead of having the one week time limit.
-You can only refund about 3-4 games per year.
I think all of that would make for a nice compromise between the consumer's wants and the retailer's needs. Having some sort of safety net, however restrictive, would be a nice show of good will to gamers, and even make them more likely to take risks with their purchases, potentially making the retailers, the developers, and publishers even more money in the long run. Win-win, I say.
-You could only refund within the first week after making the purchase.
-You only get about 90-95% of what you paid refunded to you.
-... Or maybe like what someone else said above, where you just get less refunded to you the longer you've had the game instead of having the one week time limit.
-You can only refund about 3-4 games per year.
I think all of that would make for a nice compromise between the consumer's wants and the retailer's needs. Having some sort of safety net, however restrictive, would be a nice show of good will to gamers, and even make them more likely to take risks with their purchases, potentially making the retailers, the developers, and publishers even more money in the long run. Win-win, I say.
What I don't get is how they get off selling you the game without the option of a refund, and only during installation do you actually see and are asked to agree with the EULA. If the concept behind digital distribution is you're being sold the software and license directly, why are we only seeing the license agreement after purchase, when we can't back out if we decide we don't agree with the terms? I just don't get how that's legal. It seems like making somebody pay for an apartment before letting them see or sign the leasing contract.
Uhm, No?
Whilst on-disc DRM stops people from simply copy/pasting the disc files straight onto their computer, when you purchase a game digitally that's not possible - All the files you need to play the game have to be transferred to your computer.
So the obvious problem with Digital game refunds is how ridiculously easy it would be to buy the game, download it and then "Refund it" whilst still having the game and all the necessary files needed for post-refund installation. The only solution to that? Always online DRM. So, well done, you'd essentially fuck everybody so that you didn't have to put any thought into how you spend your money you stupid motherfuckers.
And I'm flabbergasted at the poll option currently winning is "Return within a week"! ***** I can beat most modern games in a week without even trying, You may as well just hand out games for free.
Hell, even if I DIDNT complete it in a week I could return it and then simply re-buy it; Giving me another week of free game play.
Whilst on-disc DRM stops people from simply copy/pasting the disc files straight onto their computer, when you purchase a game digitally that's not possible - All the files you need to play the game have to be transferred to your computer.
So the obvious problem with Digital game refunds is how ridiculously easy it would be to buy the game, download it and then "Refund it" whilst still having the game and all the necessary files needed for post-refund installation. The only solution to that? Always online DRM. So, well done, you'd essentially fuck everybody so that you didn't have to put any thought into how you spend your money you stupid motherfuckers.
And I'm flabbergasted at the poll option currently winning is "Return within a week"! ***** I can beat most modern games in a week without even trying, You may as well just hand out games for free.
Hell, even if I DIDNT complete it in a week I could return it and then simply re-buy it; Giving me another week of free game play.
Here is your problem, refunds are only for broken or improperly working products. if you buy a product and then don't like it, that is your own fault.bells said:
I cant find any reason as to why Digital Game refunds would be a good idea, from a seller standpoint, not a customer standpoint.
The main problem is that DDG are already on your PC, so what would the seller do? give you a refund and hope you are honorable enough to delete the game? As mentioned in RagTagBand's post,
I would instead suggest a digital rental system of sorts. What it would effectivly be is simply a system where the game you want to buy and play is actually stored on a cloud server, and you can "rent it" for some time, to see if its a game you would enjoy and want to keep. When you look the game up and decide "I want to play this game" you can pay a fraction of the price of the game, and than have access to it. But the game isnt stored on your computer yet, its still on the cloud server, so if you decide you dont want it, you can get the deposit back and lose access to the game. If you decide you want it, you can pay the rest of the games price, and than the game will be downloaded onto your PC.
Granted, this is probably alot messier than it sounds, but besides pure cloud gaming and DRM, its really the only thing I can think of that would allow Refunds on Digital games.
The main problem is that DDG are already on your PC, so what would the seller do? give you a refund and hope you are honorable enough to delete the game? As mentioned in RagTagBand's post,
The only way to ensure you dont comtinue to play the game is to have all DD Games installed with Always-on DRM.RagTagBand said:
I would instead suggest a digital rental system of sorts. What it would effectivly be is simply a system where the game you want to buy and play is actually stored on a cloud server, and you can "rent it" for some time, to see if its a game you would enjoy and want to keep. When you look the game up and decide "I want to play this game" you can pay a fraction of the price of the game, and than have access to it. But the game isnt stored on your computer yet, its still on the cloud server, so if you decide you dont want it, you can get the deposit back and lose access to the game. If you decide you want it, you can pay the rest of the games price, and than the game will be downloaded onto your PC.
Granted, this is probably alot messier than it sounds, but besides pure cloud gaming and DRM, its really the only thing I can think of that would allow Refunds on Digital games.
Do you think other media and products, which do have a reasonable expectation to return products, are similarly "entitlement?"peruvianskys said:
my personal oppinion on the matter, is if you buy it, you keep it, no refunds. refunds are basically making piracy easier