Poll: Discussion - Do MMOs kill single player games?

Tom Artingstall

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With the recent announcement that the venerable single player franchise, The Elder Scrolls, will be joining the clammoring hordes hammering at the gates of WoW's golden palace to steal his throne, a question arises.

Will we ever see a single-player TES game again?

Since World of Warcraft, Blizzard has let the entire franchise stagnate. A brilliant franchise of slightly-silly fantasy RTS's, with a decent story to them that kept the player interested, has been allowed to degenerate into a series of fetch-quests, 10-bear-spleen grind fests, and high-level raid encounters. All the studio's effort towards its old workhorse has been thrown into leaching further money out of subscribers. A smart business model, but a tragic loss for fans of the franchise.

Now consider The Old Republic. Knights of the Old Republic was one of the definitive RPGs, and KOTOR II ended on such a cliffhanger that the game deserves, nae, -demands- a third installment. What we have instead, is WoW with lasers. Those fans eager to see what the Exile would find in his search for Revan will be sorely dissapointed, unless they subscribe to TOR, level up, start raiding and hope Bioware releases a new raid that explains what happened through a multi-phase boss encounter. Not my idea of a good time.

And now The Elder Scrolls rises to join the masses. The idea of Skyrim + multiplayer appealed to me. Companions are clunky and useless, prone to getting themselves killed. Having my friends be able to jump their characters into my own perpetual world to lend their skills to more difficult challenges sounded like my idea of a great time. LAN parties would no longer be constrained to mindless shoot-fests, but could become a grand adventure spanning the vast lands of Skyrim.

Instead, we can look forward to gathering twenty atronach cores for our choice of a new bow, a piece of enchanted heavy armour, or a magic staff. And that's if we're lucky.

Taking the MMO market is very much the Trial by Fire for a modern game. WoW is old, but she still has fangs, and is ready to tear the guts out of any young upstart that dares to challenge her. And MMO players are creatures of habit.

When TES Online inevitably falls at the feet of the vanquishing Blizzard titan, the franchise will have exhausted its last breath. When the huge investment of a new MMO fails to pay off, investors are forever scared off from the tainted name of the franchise. Assuming the studio even survives the fall.

And if by some miracle, WoW is indeed knocked off its Throne of Skulls, what then? TES Online is raking in the money of the masses with very little development effort needed from Bethesda. Why bother putting more time and effort into expensive, expansive single player RPGs, when they could just put it all into a new expansion with a raised level cap, redesigned gear, a few tweaks to PvP, and some silly collector's items for people who pre-order it.

MMOs kill the single player aspect of their franchise. This is the sad future I foresee. Do you have a more optimistic outlook? Please share!
 

DoPo

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Tom Artingstall said:
Since World of Warcraft, Blizzard has let the entire franchise stagnate. A brilliant franchise of slightly-silly fantasy RTS's, with a decent story to them that kept the player interested, has been allowed to degenerate into a series of fetch-quests, 10-bear-spleen grind fests, and high-level raid encounters. All the studio's effort towards its old workhorse has been thrown into leaching further money out of subscribers. A smart business model, but a tragic loss for fans of the franchise.
No, MMOs aren't inherently bad for the series. It depends on how they are handled. Blizzard already had plans to continue Warcraft's story in WoW (or whatever they are doing). They basically decided to put a huge WoW break in the series instead of more Warcraft games.

So it's not like "Oh WoW came out, we don't have the time/resources for more Warcraft" - no, the series were intentionally left to gather dust.

Tom Artingstall said:
Will we ever see a single-player TES game again?
We don't have enough details, but I believe it has been said several times that the TES MMO would in no way tangle with future Elder Scrolls title. Both literally and figuratively as future games are not only in the future from now they are also in the future from the point of view of the MMO. There is nothing stopping the creation of new title. The MMO is even developed by a different studio as far as I know.

Tom Artingstall said:
Now consider The Old Republic. Knights of the Old Republic was one of the definitive RPGs, and KOTOR II ended on such a cliffhanger that the game deserves, nae, -demands- a third installment. What we have instead, is WoW with lasers. Those fans eager to see what the Exile would find in his search for Revan will be sorely dissapointed, unless they subscribe to TOR, level up, start raiding and hope Bioware releases a new raid that explains what happened through a multi-phase boss encounter. Not my idea of a good time.
I admit, I do not have enough details on this but I don't think TOR directly stopped the production of a KOTOR sequel. The opportunity was there, there were a lot of opportunities between KOTOR 2 release and TOR's release. I am led to believe that there is a lot more going on than "Lol we're releasing an MMO". I assume, with high degree of confidence, that something else got in the way of a sequel. For example, maybe it was never ever meant to exist in the first place.
 

Sixcess

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I don't think the picture is quite as black as you paint it. Certainly Warcraft 4 will never happen so long as WoW exists due to the MMO being a direct continuation of the narrative of the RTS series. This does not apply to the Elder Scrolls since TESO is set in a different time period.

As for KotOR... The KotOR series was mismanaged and killed by LucasArts, and even prior to the announcement of SWTOR I don't think they'd have signed off on developing KotOR 3. (I seem to recall reading that they chose to do The Force Unleashed instead, which says a lot about Lucasarts.) Again, this doesn't apply to the Elder Scrolls. Noone in their right mind is going to look at Skyrim and say "yeah, we don't want another of those."

Unless TESO is a runaway success on a near WoW-killer level (and it won't be) I don't think that TES VI is at risk. Zenimax/Bethesda would be completely insane to abandon a proven success - especially after Skyrim - to put the future of the entire franchise into one as yet unreleased MMO.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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if you mean a dev decides to focus on the MMO rather than the single player then "yes"

however generally speaking no...MMO' arnt more popular than your standard single player,I guess they have an apeal of their own...what it is I really have no Idea...

in fact MMO's themself only really seem to have "one" and any others start out decent but slowly fade away..

now on the other hand it seems that more and more games are tacking on multiplayer not because of popualrity...but because of "online passes" this new thing called "used games" and its sort of like underhanded DRM for consoles

I mean imagine you have the old "6 hour single player+multiplayer" thats the kind of thing the suits love..and I personally that thats the real problem..not MMO's
 

JWRosser

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Mainly this:
Tom Artingstall said:
And now The Elder Scrolls rises to join the masses. The idea of Skyrim + multiplayer appealed to me. Companions are clunky and useless, prone to getting themselves killed. Having my friends be able to jump their characters into my own perpetual world to lend their skills to more difficult challenges sounded like my idea of a great time. LAN parties would no longer be constrained to mindless shoot-fests, but could become a grand adventure spanning the vast lands of Skyrim.
I would love the idea of co-op multiplayer in Skyrim - that is to say, you and a mate (or two) join the same 'map' and explore together. And it would be optional...like a drop in/drop out thing. Maybe similar to Fable 3's (I think it was Fable 3) co-op...but a bit better.
That is all.

I really don't see the need for an Elder Scrolls MMO, especially seeing as GW2 is being released soon, and judging from screenshots, the Elder Scrolls MMO looks just like another generic WoW clone, and is seemingly getting rid of a lot of what makes the Elder Scrolls games what they are....

I'd much rather Fallout 4 was in the making, or maybe even that Fallout MMO...

But, like you said, once a franchise release an MMO after an abundance of awesome single-player games...I dunno...I don't see a good outcome.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy a good MMO, and love the sense of community...I spent HOURS and HOURS on Guild Wars...but some games just don't need them!
 

Aerosteam

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Sep 22, 2011
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TL;DR =/
Tom Artingstall said:
Will we ever see a single-player TES game again?
I'm only paying attention to this question.

No. It's a different developer and The Elder Scrolls we all know and love wouldn't just disappear like that, the total sales for Skyrim was too good.

After the Skyrim expansion packs are done, (likely 2 or 3) Bethesda [developer] is going to start work on a new Fallout game and then DLCs for that (likely 3-5). I'm predicting The Elder Scrolls VI will be in our hands in 6 or 7 years time.
 

Strain42

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I don't think so, because MMO's will always be plagued with the same problem...other people play them (Guild Wars had a pretty nice compromise to this though)

As long as there are misanthropic shut-ins who don't want to deal with other human beings, even through cyberspace as they play their game, I don't think MMOs will ever be a threat to single player games

(and no need to get offended anybody, I'm mostly referring to myself when I said that lol)
 

Fr]anc[is

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If nothing else they kill the characters and story of single player games. What they did to Revan and HK47 in TOR is just... sad. And even with all the changes in WoW (Pandas are fine, stop being a parrot and copying what every youtube comment says) there is still a pretty epic story in there, it's just too bad it has to be told through walls of text 90% of people don't read.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Jesus christ, this thread...

1. Bethesda isn't making TES Online. Zenimax Online is. The single player Elder Scrolls franchise will continue apace.

2. A single bad game or bad installment does not vanquish a franchise. Even if Elder Scrolls Online is a reeking flop, the Bethesda created single player series will likely thunder on unhindered.

3. And this is the big one because OH MY GOD am I sick of hearing this shit over and over and over...

Almost all the MMOs you guys think of as "failures" are actually robust financial successes. Even MONOLITHIC "flops" like Warhammer Online turn a small profit. The ones that "surrendered" by going "free to play" are now raking in money hand over fist. The reason people keep making MMOs are because MMOs are extraordinarily profitable and often generate a huge return on investment. If they failed at the rate you lunkheads seem to think they do, NO ONE WOULD BE MAKING THEM.
 

ElPatron

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No.

MMOs are a lot more demanding. You won't get a "quick fix" (i.e. 60 hours on a SP game, quick is somewhat of an euphemism) from a MP game, let alone a massive multiplayer online RPG.

I know I didn't try a lot of MMORPGs but I think they all involve the same system. You can't compare it to singleplayer games.

Buretsu said:
MMOs don't kill single-player games, used game sales kill single-player games.
If you're saying that in an ironic/sarcastic way you might want to warn people about it because that post is probably going to be quoted at least 3 times in every page.
 

iseko

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Tom Artingstall said:
snip

Now consider The Old Republic. Knights of the Old Republic was one of the definitive RPGs, and KOTOR II ended on such a cliffhanger that the game deserves, nae, -demands- a third installment. What we have instead, is WoW with lasers. Those fans eager to see what the Exile would find in his search for Revan will be sorely dissapointed, unless they subscribe to TOR, level up, start raiding and hope Bioware releases a new raid that explains what happened through a multi-phase boss encounter. Not my idea of a good time.

snip
During the mandalorian war Revan and malak discovered a planet void of the force. Not a wound like malachor V, just void. He finds a reference to a sith lord who did it. Goes out into space, hits dromund kaas but is overwhelmed and brought before the emperor. He twists their minds so they become sith. They were sent out as an early invasion force. But revan en malak can make themselves forget about the sith empire (the last bit of good in them tries to resist the emperor and thats all they could do.. forget) and thus you have the beginning of KOTOR I.

After KOTOR I he rejoins the jedi but has dreams about a lightning planet (dromund kaas). On his way there he gets captured by a sith warrior and his master who is part of the dark council. He is captured for the next three years in their basement hidden from the empire. After KOTOR II the exile goes after him.

The sith warrior thinks the emperor is insane (which he is btw) because he killed every living thing and the force with it on a planet to become immortal (the planet void of the force, apparently this is considered overkill for even a sith). Through dumb luck (the force?) he meets the exile and teams up with her to free revan and kill the emperor. When the three face the emperor the sith warior gets a vision that they will fail but he sees a future jedi who can kill the emperor. So he betrays revan and the exile. The exile is dead and revan is captured. The emperor keeps revan alive for 300 years to extract information from revans mind. The sith warrior is also made immortal as a reward for killing the exile and serves as the emperors wrath. Biding his time for the unknown jedi to come kill the emperor.

After 300 years revan escapes and finds the third of the 3 forges (yes there are three. In kotor I we destroy the second one. First one is apparently allready destroyed). An imperial strike team (players in swtor, its a flashpoint) get sent in to kill the mysterious jedi (revan). Here you also destroy HK47. Revan is dead. You are victorious. Yay for the empire and his crazy emperor (who is rumored to be dead).

Thats basically it in a nutshell :).

OT: No I do not think they are destroying the single player games. It was warcrafts time to become a MMO imho. Kotor might have had a third installment before becoming an MMO in my opinion but there you go. The elder scrolls... I don't think they should ever make an MMO out of that one.

For me, when a certain franchise has gone on long enough and the story is at an end. Then you can make an MMO out of it. So everyone can roam the world and make their own story. Or alternatively collect spleens... Whatever floats your boat. But most of the successful MMO's are born from single player games that have good stories (or movies and (comic)-books if you are into that sort of thing).