Poll: Do high end graphics take more than they give?

Gladion

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My observation on this topic is that whenever it gets brought up, people go "I agree, graphics are unimportant compared to the rest" (which imho they're not), but whenever there pop up some news about new game xyz that does not feature hi-res textures or whatever, nobody ceases to at least mention that.

Which is why I'll just leave you with this and not come back here, the discussion is pointless. It's not only the gamers who want new graphics but also developers.
 

punkrocker27

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Some people think claiming they don't care about graphics makes them more intelligent. To those people I say go back and play pong then.
 

Soxafloppin

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Have to disagree, God of war 3 looks amazing and is a great game in every other way!
 

Jumplion

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Old thought is old, let's see how it holds up;

Kpt._Rob said:
First off, the obvious affect on the industry of the high graphics that gamers demand is that games are more expensive and less innovative. Creating games with high end graphics costs an amount of money that would make Bill Gates blush. This means that developers have less room to develop new and creative ideas, because the investment required is too great a risk, so instead they create a copy of a game that was already successful with a few minor tweaks and try to pass that off as innovative. If games didn't have to have top of the line graphics to sell, then companies could take bigger risks in the creation of the game part of the game, and because they didn't have to spend as much money making it, they could afford to sell it for less.
Games have always been apprehensive towards making innovations. Trends in gaming genre's, certain games changing up the playing field, the type of game, how big a budget, these all affect how much a game can innovate. You do realize that if these huge, multimillion dollar budget games fail, they fail big time, and they can't always afford a risky innovation. Smaller, more careful steps are better than huge-ass jumps on a rickety bridge. It's silly to point out just one aspect, an aspect that has been pointed the finger at multiple times already, and claim "Good graphics are ruining the industry!"

Secondly, the demands of high end graphics actually limit who can play, and require anyone who does want to play to pay ridiculous amounts of money. Now, granted, this argument doesn't apply so much to console gamers, but it does actually get to the core of one of the reasons for which I am a console gamer. That is, that the computer that I use, the one I need in order to be successful as a student, can't handle modern games because the demands that even the lowest graphical settings of many modern games make on my computer are too much. And if I want a computer that can play modern games, I'll have to spend a lot of money. And I won't just have to spend that money today, I'll have to spend it a couple years from now, upgrading my computer again, then again, and again. I would love to play the computer games that are hitting the market today, but because of the high costs of a machine that can handle modern graphics I simply can't afford to, which means that I'm stuck as a console gamer. Granted, tossing high end graphics out the window will not completely solve this problem, but it would certainly make it easier for me to run many of the modern games that I can't run right now.
This is mainly just something with computers, and it's been this way since PCs started. Infact, I get the feeling that PC games are less inclined to go for uber-graphics aside from the odd occasion of Crysis. This is something that has plagued the PC for years, and while I'm not saying it shouldn't change, again you're just pointing fingers at something that's been pointed at so many times.

Third, in many ways, high end graphics actually take away from the aesthetic beauty of a game. How many times have we heard someone complain (or perhaps complained ourselves) about how modern shooters are a sea of grays and browns? It is high end graphics that actually allow for this. Sure, there are exceptions, but back in the days of the N64, you really couldn't make a game that was mostly grays and browns, why? Because the machines lacked the graphical prowess to make objects stand out from one another without varying colors. High end graphics allow for the creation of a world that is a more accurate reflection of our own, but in creating an accurate reflection of our own world, we lose the beauty of the fantasy worlds that developers were at one time forced to create by graphical limitations.
You are looking through some heavy nostalgia glasses, my dear friend. Just to point out, it's actually easier to process browns and grays instead of intense bright colors, so infact if "graphics are ruining the industry" then we would have to strive for more processing power, wouldn't we?

That's a big loss, because the worlds that I played in on the N64 had such a wonderful sense of charm, and I hate that it's gone now. See, I'm actually an art major, and one of the things I've always wanted to capture was the beauty of some of the worlds I experienced as a kid playing on the N64. Take for instance the worlds in Super Mario 64, Zelda (Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask), hell, even Glover 64 had some incredibly beautiful worlds. Now, that's not to say that these worlds couldn't have been created with high end graphics, but I feel like if developers at the time had had access to high end graphics, these worlds might have been drastically different. That thought makes me sad, that some day when I have kids, they may not get to experience the whimsical worlds that enchanted me when I was a kid.
Pure, pure nostalgia and opinion. You cannot possibly tell me that current video games don't [http://gamerlimit.com/files/2010/06/Enslaved-Odyssey-to-the-West.jpg] have [http://files.playstatic.com/ps3/uncharted-drakes-fortune/e3-uncharted-drakes-fortune-screenshot-2.jpg] that [http://ve3dmedia.ign.com/ve3d/image/article/745/745255/new-crysis-dx10-screenshot-20061110001316019.jpg] same [http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/article/759/759997/okami-20070130074341824_640w.jpg] colorfulness [http://images.psxextreme.com/wallpapers/ps3/valkyria_chronicles_1_957.jpg] or amazing [http://cdn.complex.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/bioshock.jpg] fantasical [http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2010/08/bioshock-infinite-screen-4-590x331.jpg] worlds [http://zeldadungeon.net/Soundtracks/The%20Wind%20Waker%20Front%20Large.jpg]. Exceptions to the rule, maybe, but you are also cherry picking, my friend.

Now, that's not to say that high end graphics don't give us anything in return, I'm not saying that. Trust me, I was amazed at the world of Bioshock, the fact that they had an entire art team just devoted to the water. That's something you can't do with low end graphics. When used well high end graphics certainly have the ability to create artistic visions with even more charm, beauty, and all sorts of other wonderful adjectives, than low end graphics.
Better graphics = more processing power = different uses for processing power = more innovations. I prefer to call graphics "visuals" anyway.

My problem is that because we demand high end graphics, we lose a lot. Shamus Young recently wrote an excellent article (which you can find here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8194-Experienced-Points-Mine-all-Minecraft) in which he calls Minecraft "a hadoken-style rebuke to the absurd things the rest of the industry has been doing." Minecraft, I feel, is an excellent example of how a brilliant game can be created that doesn't treat the lack of high end graphics as a weakness, but instead as a strength. I'd love to see more games like Minecraft, but until people like the guy I saw posting earlier get past the idea that high end graphics are a necessity, I feel like the design philosophy behind Minecraft will be an exception, instead of a rule.
I don't think anyone demands high end graphics, or even asks for high graphics at all. What most of us what is adequate graphics. If a game is all muddy, brown, and gray, we can't see what the hell we're doing, that's not high end graphics, that's shitty visuals. I don't mind if a game has average graphics, but it it in turn hinders my gameplay enjoyment with it's shittyness, then ti's getting some point deducted.

If a game, like Minecraft, has a certain visual style to it, that's perfectly fine. It makes sense for Minecraft to have that style because it's a simplistic game built by one dude, what do you expect? With higher end games, however, like Bioshock Infinite or Uncharted, we expect at least adequate to play in. It's not that we demand higher-end graphics/visuals, it's that we demand on-par visuals and improving steps in that field.

EDIT: Ironic Pirate actually puts your post fairly well.
 

Audio

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I'd imagine that the target market are still the ones who want to be impressed by graphics. Gamers will just have to support the independent designers some more :)
Such as this little gem of mine <3 http://www.audio-surf.com/
 

Feste the Jester

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Personally, I care more about style in graphics than quality. The look of the game needs to suit the gameplay, because video games are still, at least partially, a visual medium.
 

Jumplion

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Ironic Pirate said:
Not to be sarcastic, but this isn't exactly a revelation.

At least once a day, someone makes a thread like this, and I must admit, yours was better than most. For one thing, you didn't outright say that people who like high quality graphics are stupid philistines, which is rare. Yours was also better written than most, which was also appreciated.

Sadly, you fell victim to the three most common issues plaguing these types of things: Pseudo-Messiah, Lack of Discussion, and Assumption of Normalcy.

Pseudo-Messiah: Perhaps the most common failing, you seemed to believe you were the first, or at least one of the few, to realize this. Not as bad as some of these threads, but the impression was there.

Lack of Discussion: You simply presented your position on the issue (and it's been presented oh so many times before) without allowing people to say much more than "Yup". This is more a formatting issue, as just a small paragraph asking people's position on this would have guaranteed more interesting discussion and extended the life of this topic too several days.

Assumption of Normalcy: You assumed (erroneously) that everyone believes the same as you, we just failed to see it (see, Pseudo-Messiah). While innovation is nice, it shouldn't exist solely to exist, it should only occur when someone has an actually interesting idea.

On top of that, you seemed to have forgotten that while there are many high-budget, high graphics games, services like PSN, XBLA, and to a certain degree Steam, thrive on low budget, semi-innovative visually charming games. In other words, what you want exists, but something you don't want exists simultaneously, and that is somehow intolerable. Because while big blockbuster games exist, so do low budget indie games, and there are arguably more of them. You can happily play your indie games, your only interaction with the Blockbusters is watching the occasionally ad for them.

Because diversity is a good thing, and there is a huge market for what you want. These high profile games bring people, talented people, into gaming, making it better for everyone. Because the guy who make the next Minecraft could very well have started by playing MW2.


Final Grade: I give this topic a C+, overdone, but somewhat well written.
Very well put, I couldn't formulate the exact words I wanted, so this post has summarized it pretty well.
 

syltman

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I can openly admit I don't like the minecraft graphic. I would've liked the style if he just made it look better then the stretched ugly textures. 3d dot heroes looked alot better and had the same blocky style of minecraft. However I do think he made the best style out of the graphics "engine" he worked with.


Third, in many ways, high end graphics actually take away from the aesthetic beauty of a game. How many times have we heard someone complain (or perhaps complained ourselves) about how modern shooters are a sea of grays and browns? It is high end graphics that actually allow for this. Sure, there are exceptions, but back in the days of the N64, you really couldn't make a game that was mostly grays and browns, why? Because the machines lacked the graphical prowess to make objects stand out from one another without varying colors. High end graphics allow for the creation of a world that is a more accurate reflection of our own, but in creating an accurate reflection of our own world, we lose the beauty of the fantasy worlds that developers were at one time forced to create by graphical limitations.
Yeah well if you want to make a realistic shooter, then you want realistic graphics, doom would've looked alot better with todays realistic brownish graphics then it would with the really colourfull old graphics. High end graphics doesn't have to mean that everything has to look as realistic as possible. You can still do charming graphics that don't look real and that won't mean that the game looks outdated by any means, it gives you like for instance anti aliasing and more cool stuff that can make the world look for instance round AND sharp at the same time whereas in the old graphics round stuff would look like 4-5 blocks
 

MiracleOfSound

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Jan 3, 2009
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Depends on the game.

In a game focused on story, graphics are an important part of the experience. This goes for atmosphere too. Braid and Limbo would not be as immersive and memorable without thier distinctive visual styles.

Then again, look what they did last gen with Silent Hill 2. Amazing atmosphere with limited tech. Sometimes style is more important than high resolutions and stuff.
 

Enkidu88

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I used to be dedicated to good graphics, not playing anything that didn't have top of the line graphics.

Then I played Minecraft.

All other arguments for Graphic quality became invalid.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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i think its a combination of graphics and art style, there are alot of games these days i dont like simply because of the style they took, not because of bad/good graphics.

there are tons of games i love with lower end graphics, and personally i still play them and dont care that they are in worse graphics, i wont downgrade a modern game for not having the best of the best graphics.

however, alot of games from back in the day, especially rpg's, id love to have better graphics for, it would be way more immersive (on top of the immersion already) but im not complaining, just saying it'd be cool to see how the team handled it
 

Nazz3

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I like having good graphics, and I kinda hate it when a game thats trying to look realistic has pretty poor graphics, but I can play games with bad graphics fine too, like Minecraft and Mount & Blade.
 

Tinneh

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Novskij said:
FlashHero said:
What if i don't like minecraft because playing with legos just isn't fun to me?
Which isnt the point of this thread.
And his childhood must have sucked.

No LEGOs? Damn.

Anyway, excellent article, and I appreciate you pointing out the important parts with boldface type. I'm torn between graphics, I like shiny things, but the simple charm of Minecraft would make me drop the game if it ever got a graphics upgrade.
 

Smooth Operator

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Good graphics are a nice complement but they don't make the game.
Crysis being the prime example, great graphics demo - below average game, and yet reviewers slaped 9's and 10's on it, so very sad.
 

FlashHero

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Tinneh said:
Novskij said:
FlashHero said:
What if i don't like minecraft because playing with legos just isn't fun to me?
Which isnt the point of this thread.
And his childhood must have sucked.

No LEGOs? Damn.
Why does everyone think i didn't have Legos...i HAD Legoes dammit but i stopped playing with them the second i got a N64 and Super Mario 64..and i never looked back.
 

Requx

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Mar 28, 2010
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Agree with all the minecraft posts. What about retro games though. I played a ton of Galaga and still wasnt pissed of cause the graphics sucked.