Poll: Do we nice guys still stand a chance?

[Inglip]

its not the guys fault, its the women. they only care about looks

Fuck off you sexist ****. Yeah, all women only care about looks. There's absolutely no problem with that statement. Oh wait, there are many, massive problems with it.

1) You just generalized half of the planet. Good job asshole.

2) Looks, are important. Can you honestly say you'd date somebody horribly ugly. No, you're just as shallow as the rest of us.

3) Men care about looks too. It's not specifically for women.

God, and these are the kind of people that call themselves nice. I sincerely hope you're trolling, otherwise you've got one sad, pathetic life ahead of you.

yeah you dont know about me. just go away and watch a lifetime movie

I ain't watching that shite.

And I know enough about you to know you're a sexist asshole.

you havent read anything else besides that post have you?

and you accuse me of generalizing

I've read some of your other posts in this thread. Sorry for not reading them all, there's quite a few.

Anyway, I've read your excuses and they're not good enough. There is no excuse for that. Just because women were mean to you in your life doesn't give you the right to hate them, since I can pretty much guarantee men have as well.

Actually, you're dead wrong, because it does give him every reason to hate them.

It's psychology.

It gives him a reason, it doesn't give him a good or justified one.

It does. Read my post, I edited it.

If black people beat up some kid every day on his way home from school for 10 years, he's going to hate black people most likely for the rest of his life. It's justified. It may not be healthy, but it's certainly justified.

Go take a psychology class or two and get back to me afterwards.

I get what your saying, but I still disagree. It's not justified at all no matter what happened, it's still an assholish thing to do to somebody, but decrying an entire race or gender because of it is just wrong and never justified. Your point makes some sense, but the word justified is well out of place.

And try not to sound so condescending when you talk to people. It doesn't exactly come across well.

Don't worry, it only happens on the internet.

Anywho, I'm pretty sure justified means that someone sees something as okay to do based on what has taken place beforehand. In his case, it is totally justified. Of course he hates women after what's happened to him. He sees it as okay.

Speaking from my own perspective, if someone treated me like shit for 15 years, chances are, I'm going to treat everyone that exhibits behavior similar to that person as the same kind of person. Justified as that's what I've experienced.

Do you agree that justification means as I have defined it? Because if you do not, then I can see why you disagree with me overall.

No I don't agree with your definition. For something to be justified a lot more people than yourself have to see it that way.

Put it like this, and before I say it I want to emphasise how much I dislike breaking Godwin's Law, but was Hitler justified.

 

[LadyMint]

As far as I'm concerned, I want a "nice guy." But my definition of a nice guy might not be the same as someone else's. I don't mean an all day sucker who lets people walk all over them. I just mean someone who knows how to treat other people with the respect they deserve by just being a fellow human being. Making sure you hold doors for everyone coming through the same doorway as you, not just the ladies. Being respectful towards elderly members of society. This person is not a jerk, but they do know to flip the jerk switch when it's time to stand up for what's right (sometimes standing up for oneself/others can make you look like a jerk for that moment). And while he may not be spoiling for a fight at all times, he shouldn't curl up and cry if he's forced into one. That's just the basics, though.

My mother has a history of hooking up with men who fall in the jerk category for me. Her latest prize is some verbally abusive sneakthief who won't stay out of prison. I don't intend to keep up her legacy of being mentally oppressed by the man I marry, so I'm not going to put up with anyone who is even the slightest bit abusive towards me. I don't know who started this trend of "women always want the bad boy," but I'm not carrying that tradition one step.

 

[Inglip]

Put it like this, and before I say it I want to emphasise how much I dislike breaking Godwin's Law, but was Hitler justified.

Ha! You know Godwin's Law... that amuses me.

From his perspective, probably. From mine? Nah.

Exactly. Therefore I don't see him as justified at all.

 

[370999]

Put it like this, and before I say it I want to emphasise how much I dislike breaking Godwin's Law, but was Hitler justified.

Ha! You know Godwin's Law... that amuses me.

From his perspective, probably. From mine? Nah.

Exactly. Therefore I don't see him as justified at all.

Agreed. We can say he thought he was justified.

 

[Cormyre]

The answer at least here in the states is not something someone in their early 20's or below probably wants to hear, but... it pays off in the long run, when you hit about the 30 mark and the women out there have had enough of the jack-holes, they start looking for the nice guys.

 

[Kenami]

No.

 

[Hive Mind]

Nice guys have always gotten the girls.

Spineless pushovers who near-on stalk a friend have never stood a chance.

There is a difference! It is vital we all know this. For the good of us all.

 

[EeveeElectro]

Girls DO NOT just go for jerks. That's like saying all guys go for blonde sluts.
I've come to find when guys say, "only girls go out with jerks" they sometimes mean, "The girl I like is going out with a guy, and I'm jealous so therefore he is a jerk."
To be honest, when I used to have a crush on someone, I'd call their girlfriend a slag because I was angry and jealous so it's understandable.
I don't see why anyone would want to attract a woman that likes the guys who act like those Jersey Shore pricks.
If they like a hot douchebag, then they're shallow and won't ever be happy in life, you should be happy you're not with her.

I found a nice man, I've never understand the girls who like to be treat bad. Fetish maybe?
Something tells me the guys complaining aren't broadening their horizons much. That plain Jane you see on the bus every day might not be as hot as Sexy Sarah but she could be a good match for you.

[sub]Sorry for the rant. It just annoys me hearing this all the time.[/sub]

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Snip...

I've never liked the whole over controlling jerk kind of person (Despite having gone out with a few.... though that's more to do with the kind of relationships I usually have, to be honest) I can't really understand why it seems so many women like that kind of person, but from experience they do seem to hide it well, and when your going out with someone you tend to try to ignore their worst aspects.

I can only hope that you'll find someone who isn't like that though, best of luck.

 

[thylasos]

Fuck's sake...

Confidence and being a decent conversationalist. That's it. Not acting like a twat.

Yeah, it's not like there is a large group of people lacking that through circumstances not of their own control.

Ever hear of social anxiety?

To put it simply, the whole dating process is pure bullshit. Don't give me the confidence routine either. Some of us are naturally FUCKED for getting a life partner. When you can't even voice your feelings because you are literally paralyzed with fear, it's kind of hard to say anything.

Don't you dare call me weak either. I've been mentally strong for a great deal of time, and I'm likely more mentally strong than anyone on this entire fucking forum. The problem is that women need proof. They won't go out on a limb, and for men that can't provide proof in a social setting because of things like social anxiety or love-shyness (these are clinical terms) we're screwed. But by all means, please go on to tell me how I'm doing it all wrong and that I'm not giving it my best shot.

Self-righteous motherfuckers. ITT: my social anxieties manifest themselves in a very frustrated and pissed off way. I'm somewhat autistic so that also puts me at a disadvantage.

I have, in fact. Due to suffering from social anxiety disorder and severe depression for much of the last 7 years.

I'm not saying I've particularly succeeded in these terms, but when I have, it's ended well.

I myself am not a fan of said "dating game", being a person who more naturally falls into relationships than actively initiating them.

Also: I apologise for the seemingly combative tone of my original post, which can be partially explained by an utter lack of sleep and being incredibly annoyed for various reasons connected to academic work.

Also: It's possibly to have social anxiety and be a complete twat at the same time, making this somewhat off-topic.

 

[Salad Is Murder]

Fuck's sake...

Confidence and being a decent conversationalist. That's it. Not acting like a twat.

Yeah, it's not like there is a large group of people lacking that through circumstances not of their own control.

Ever hear of social anxiety?

To put it simply, the whole dating process is pure bullshit. Don't give me the confidence routine either. Some of us are naturally FUCKED for getting a life partner. When you can't even voice your feelings because you are literally paralyzed with fear, it's kind of hard to say anything.

Don't you dare call me weak either. I've been mentally strong for a great deal of time, and I'm likely more mentally strong than anyone on this entire fucking forum. The problem is that women need proof. They won't go out on a limb, and for men that can't provide proof in a social setting because of things like social anxiety or love-shyness (these are clinical terms) we're screwed. But by all means, please go on to tell me how I'm doing it all wrong and that I'm not giving it my best shot.

Self-righteous motherfuckers. ITT: my social anxieties manifest themselves in a very frustrated and pissed off way. I'm somewhat autistic so that also puts me at a disadvantage.

No, ITT you act like a jerk and wave your perceived weaknesses in everyone's face and then insult them and claim to be better. Self-righteous motherfuckers, indeed...kettle, how black art thou.

 

[tthor]

nice guys finish first. PUSSY guys, who sit in the corner hoping the hot girl will notice him, finish last. and some girls are just gluten for douchebags, but those girls tend to be a bit of douches themselves. just be a nice guy, don't be a pussy, and stop aiming for the bratty bitches.

 

[clipse15]

From reading more into this thread, it seems fairness plays no role in a relationship. People talk about equality, but then you say to withhold some nice, or to not let her take you for granted. What's fair in that? How can you have respect for yourself when you take advantage of situations and not let her know?

It's funny how people say nice guys are the manipulative or have no confidence ones etc which is generalizing the entire nice guy group meanwhile they were basically bashing the "nice" guy for generalizing women as only dating jerks.

Yo dawg I heard you like generalizing so we put some generalizations in your generalizer so you can generalize while you generalize.

lmao, this is so true.

Also for people saying confidence, if you haven't been confident for X number of years, whats going to make you confident now? someone telling you on the internet? No that's not going to work is it.

This too. Confidence is bullshit. I'm confident I can kick all your asses in a game of Firearms, or that I'd probably outscore you on a Biology test, but these are things I've been doing forever. I'm 22, I don't have time to acquire a large set of social skills and tools. That would take years. It's such a pointless recommendation. They really need to have a dating class in high school so the people that don't catch on aren't in the position so many uninformed/socially inhibited men are in.

Make no mistake, I am a very confident person in the fields I'm studying. But social confidence is different. Men are not spineless just because they can't stomach treating the girl they really like as if she were any other person. She's a love interest for a reason, because she's different. You only get one shot, and if you fuck up, that's it. Most guys that have social anxiety aren't going to take that risk because the loss is too great. The fear of social failure has been ingrained in them for years and years. To say that makes them spineless is not only ignorant, but a terribly mean thing to say.

What people are assuming too often is that we can change ourselves. A lot of people can't, and I don't care what story you heard, people with social disorders often cannot change without a shitload of help.

So why exactly should any girl want to date you? Confidence and social skills shows a girl that your interesting. Girls don't need to be taken care of and they don't need you to hold them up on a pedestal. They want someone they like being around not just someone who worships them. They aren't a pet that needs constant love and affection. So I ask again why should a girl date you?

 

[AvsJoe]

No.

Do explain. I'm curious.

 

[Kenami]

No.

Do explain. I'm curious.

The sheer fact we have to wonder whether we stand a chance leaves me cynical. Just seems like the world is against nice guys for some reason. No explanation really just observation.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**snip**

Yes, it's true, we're attracted to jerks. It's cause they're hot. It's a sort of naughty, bad-decision temptation. Like drugs.

I mean, I could have the diet coke. Or I could have the double vodka rass-tini. One is nice, practical, and will keep me awake when I'm driving home later. The other will fuck me up, smack my ass, and leave me half-naked in a pool of my own vomit. And it will be awesome.

Personally, what I like is a nice guy with a bit of jerk going on. It's like a practical rum-and-coke. The caffeine to keep me awake, the alcohol to loosen me up. ^^

Then again, it's 4 in the morning here so... yeah. Take that for the barely-awake incoherence that it is.

 

[Naheal]

Um.

It's all in presentation and the individual girl. Are we now gong to say that all guys are interested in large breasted, flag pole thin, ditsy blonde girls, too? One trip to 4chan will tell you just how wrong that is...

 

[OldRat]

nice guys finish first. PUSSY guys, who sit in the corner hoping the hot girl will notice him, finish last. and some girls are just gluten for douchebags, but those girls tend to be a bit of douches themselves. just be a nice guy, don't be a pussy, and stop aiming for the bratty bitches.

This, here. Ultimately, the only way to make someone know you like them is to go out and say it. People really shouldn't confuse being nice with being completely socially incapable. If you're just standing around smiling meekly and actively shove yourself into the dreaded Friend Zone by acting like just a friend and nothing else, then you really shouldn't be surprised when you are considered just a friend. And no amount of "BUT I'M A REALLY NICE GUY!" will change the fact that you, yourself, made it seem like you aren't intrested in anything deeper.
You can be socially active and confident (and both of these are entirely trainable to any person without serious problems), and still be a nice guy.

And on that other point, I agree also. If you just try to go for people completely different to yourself, the ones you probably really wouldn't actually even want if you managed to make something of it, then of course there's no hope for you. Go for nice people. Take up a hobby you're intrested in, there's probably people who share your interests. Studies show that school, hobbies and work are the best places for finding a romantic interest (statistically, most of people found theirs in one of those).
So be a nice guy, but don't be an awkward, socially crippled, snivelling guy. Go for it, don't wait for it to come to you. Because the chances are, it never will.

And on that note, if you do have serious social problems, those are treatable in many different ways. So try to actually address them instead of letting them ruin all your chances and then bemoaning women (or men, if you swing that way) as "superficial bitches" for not finding a stuttering, eye contact avoiding, sweating and generally awkward person exactly intresting.
Yeah, I know most don't do that. I know most won't call women bitches and actually think the "jocks" are stealing their girls. But I've seen it, and it's sad.

So all in all, yes, nice guys do have a chance. If you feel like you don't, then that's the exact problem, not the fact you're not a jerk.

 

[zhoominator]

I'm not particularly socially capable with people (especially when they first meet me) and I've still had a couple of women ask ME out. Sure one of them slightly frightened me and the other ended up going nowhere but so what? Isn't part of the fun the failed attempts? They can certainly make for some amusing stories.

It might be because I still do things which I find fun and can meet people (eg, I'm taking dancing lessons in a fairly large class) and can have a laugh. Frankly, it's probably my quirks that put many women off (I often think out loud and at a mile a minute) but I'm sure there are enough people who can put up with them, certainly my friends can.

I'm not really actively looking for a girlfriend at the moment due to my busy schedule but if I know somebody who likes my and seems nice, I certainly wouldn't be against pursuing that. I just don't have time to initiate any chasing just now. I mean in the metaphorical sense of course. I'm not a psycho, honest!

 

[Pearwood]

Self-righteous motherfuckers. ITT: my social anxieties manifest themselves in a very frustrated and pissed off way. I'm somewhat autistic so that also puts me at a disadvantage.

I'm in very much the same situation and I have to ask what is it that makes you want a relationship? It's going to take you out of your comfort zone and unless you have a very understanding partner it might end up being more trouble than it's worth. And if you want sex, I'll be very blunt - sex is not fun if you do have serious anxiety issues. Really you'd be better off with friends.