Poll: Do you believe in ghosts?

[tiredinnuendo]

I'm not one to fall in for ghosts, because there's no proof, and if we're going on belief, I'd rather not believe that what remains of my loved ones is wandering around areas they used to hang out, unable to interact with anything.

I've given some thought to the "ghosts" phenomena and I did come up with this alternate theory, for those who just have to believe in something. Preface with a short story.

I used to live in Annapolis, Maryland, where there was very little to do after midnight. As a result, I spent much of my time in diners, most notably Denny's on West Street. We were the Dennyzens (ha ha!) and there were maybe thirty of us in total, though usually only about 15 together at once. I went a lot, because as said, I didn't have anything else to do.

After a few years, I moved to New York. A few months later, I came back to visit. People in Denny's commented that I hadn't been coming "as much". When I asked about the "as much", they said they had seen me here and there, but never at their table, and not with any regularity.

I choose to believe that they saw someone who looked like me and assumed it was me, but as a possible "ghost" explanation, I think I can buy that we leave impressions on the places we touch, and those places can sometimes keep "memories", rather than believing that the soul of my dead grandmother is wandering around her house at night, occasionally banging into things. That'd be a horrible afterlife.

So no. No ghosts.

- J

 

[Geoffrey42]

Gradually, this discussion is diverting away from ghosts and towards God.

Difference being? Seems like the discussion is almost identical between the two, one is just without the inevitable emotionally charged yelling matches.

 

[Jimmyjames]

You cannot disprove the allegation that Julius Caesar was in, in fact, an alien cyborg sent here to change the course of history. You can't produce a body, nor is there any historic document expressly saying that he was not an alien cyborg.

YES!!! This is the argument Carl Sagan makes in "The Dragon In My Garage". Believers in the paranormal can find any number of reasons that a hypothesis cannot be tested. It's one of the key red flags that something is pseudoscience.

 

[Andy Chalk]

My girlfriend and I used to go to a nearby graveyard a lot to do it, and not once were we ever interrupted by the restless spirits of the dead. And we were like, right there, you know, like we were haunting them kind of thing. And nothing. So I'm calling bullshit.

 

[propertyofcobra]

Actually, invisible just means not visible, not intangible. Therefore, your logic fails and you required outside assistance from someone who does believe in ghosts to illustrate your point of trying to (sarcastically) say that ghosts do not exist if you were to correct yourself and say intangible or come up with another example. And it isn't an elephant, it's a giant mutant venus fly trap that only eats prehistoric dragonflies, get it right.
Also "right behind you" is highly subjective as "right" isn't a quantitative measurement.

Good golly on a stick, it was an example of the ridiculous logic used in "You can't prove it's not there, ergo it has to be there". Just like Julius Ceasar being an alien cyborg.
That my made-up-on-the-fly example was not worded absolutely perfectly at once does not mean my logic automatically fails, I shall refrain from the namecalling normally followed to someone who makes a stupid claim like that.

Trying to prove a negative is something skeptics and atheists have been forced to do by people who firmly believe that the burden of proof is not with the one making a very tall and ridiculous claim, but rather the one saying "That's bollocks".

The average conversation between believer/nonbeliever goes something like this...
"There are invisible intangible dead people walking around all over."
"...um...what? No."
"PROVE ME WRONG!"
"...you made the claim, you freaking prove yourself right. That's how it works in the legal world."
"Nuh-huh! You can't prove it's not there! So it's there!"
"Moron"
"Hey!"
"You can't prove I didn't actually say "Thanks for making me see your point" but that invisible space-bugs above us changed the soundwaves to make it sound like "Moron", ergo that's exactly what happened."
"You're mean"
"And you're an idiot."


Believe in ghosts for any reason you want, but "You can't prove it's NOT the case" is NOT a reason to believe in ghosts, god, reincarnation, flying purple people eaters, santa or the tooth fairy as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Easykill]

The average conversation between believer/nonbeliever goes something like this...
"There are invisible intangible dead people walking around all over."
"...um...what? No."
"PROVE ME WRONG!"
"...you made the claim, you freaking prove yourself right. That's how it works in the legal world."
"Nuh-huh! You can't prove it's not there! So it's there!"
"Moron"
"Hey!"
"You can't prove I didn't actually say "Thanks for making me see your point" but that invisible space-bugs above us changed the soundwaves to make it sound like "Moron", ergo that's exactly what happened."
"You're mean"
"And you're an idiot."


Believe in ghosts for any reason you want, but "You can't prove it's NOT the case" is NOT a reason to believe in ghosts, god, reincarnation, flying purple people eaters, santa or the tooth fairy as far as I'm concerned.

Lol. I approve.

 

[Geoffrey42]

My girlfriend and I used to go to a nearby graveyard a lot to do it, and not once were we ever interrupted by the restless spirits of the dead. And we were like, right there, you know, like we were haunting them kind of thing. And nothing. So I'm calling bullshit.

Sex in a graveyard just reminds me of the movie [a href=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0331811/]11:14[/a]. And, had you seen this movie prior to your shenanigans, I think you might've been somewhat less... aroused by the thought of getting your freak on in the memorial garden.

 

[Esta]

Well, as there's no real physical evidence that disprooves ghosts I'd have to say yes, they exist.

If you say there's no such thing as ghosts in your opinion that's okay, but if you announce that ghosts don't exist as a fact, your thick, because obviously, you can't proove that.

There is a giant invisible elephant right behind you. You can't prove there's NOT one there, you might just not be able to see or smell or touch it. Doesn't mean it's not there, thus it has to be there. Flawless logic, really.

Lord Omnit pretty much convayed what I would say as a reply to this.

That's taking it a bit far for the discussion at hand mate.

Do some research. What I was saying was you can't 100% say, as a fact, that ghosts don't exist, you can't prove it.
Stop, don't say you can't prove that there's no way to prove that ghosts do exist or don't, don't be thick with this mate.

I do not really care to argue about proving whether its possible to disprove ghosts existence, or any other far fetched blabbidy things added after this point on the topic.

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

Gradually, this discussion is diverting away from ghosts and towards God.

Difference being? Seems like the discussion is almost identical between the two, one is just without the inevitable emotionally charged yelling matches.

It's funny, after I posted that comment I thought to myself, "Hmm, I'll bet someone will respond by saying there is no difference between the two." Not that I believe in ghosts or God-- I just get tickled when I'm right like that.

But you seem to have gotten my point-- I worry that it is only a matter of time before this thread becomes an "emotionally charged yelling match".

 

[runtheplacered]

I believe ghosts haunt the fiction sections of your local film/book/video game store.

 

[Geoffrey42]

It is coming out, right? :-/

[a href=http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/07/fable-2-alan-wake-and-more-confirmed-for-2008/]Microsoft says so. It must be true. I dare you to prove me wrong.[/a]

/Sorry, mild attempt to respond, and yet stay on topic. Tricky.

 

[PurpleRain]

You cannot disprove the allegation that Julius Caesar was in, in fact, an alien cyborg sent here to change the course of history. You can't produce a body, nor is there any historic document expressly saying that he was not an alien cyborg.

If you say that he was not an alien cyborg in your opinion that's okay, but if you announce that he wasn't an alien cyborg as a fact, you're thick, because obviously, you can't prove that.

I can prove it! He was stabbed to death. 1) You can't just stab a cyborg alien to death! 2)His metal shell or interior would of protected him from the knives. 3)Also, I'm pretty sure no-one mentioned that he bleed a gooey yellow substaince instead of blood, as all cyborg aliens tend to do.

 

[Copter400]

With ghosts, I take the same approach I do with gods. No gods, no afterlife. No afterlife, no ghosts. Of course, if someone could provide some hardcore evidence, preferably in the form of a ghost coming up to me and saying 'Hi', then that's a different story.

 

[Blayze]

You can't just stab a cyborg alien to death!

"Cyborg" would imply fleshy bits, which could include essential organs. Organs can be stabbed, and if one stab got his spleen...

 

[LordOmnit]

Although you are correct about cyborg implying fleshy parts, I still doubt that a bunch of middle-aged and older politicians from B.C. times to be able to defeat a cyborg-alien. And I'm pretty sure that they'd be taken off guard by a (seemingly) living and moving metal.

 

[Geoffrey42]

I don't think "cyborg" means what you think it means.

At least not to the extent that you seem to think.

 

[Carbon016]

I carry a vacuum on my back and chant "Mariooooooooo? Marioooooo?" whenever I've got a bad vibe.

 

[LordOmnit]

Well, if cyborg doesn't mean a living thing with mechanical things that also move as a part of it then your right, I don't know what a cyborg is. (This, of course, is a very vague definition, so don't take it without a grain or two of salt.)

 

[Geoffrey42]

Well, if cyborg doesn't mean a living thing with mechanical things that also move as a part of it then your right, I don't know what a cyborg is. (This, of course, is a very vague definition, so don't take it without a grain or two of salt.)

Depending on your definition, someone with a cochlear implant could qualify as a cyborg. Biological organism + electronic or mechanical doodad built in = cyborg.

If Caesar had a cochlear implant, or mechanical eye replacements, or any variety of bionic pieces, he could easily have been stabbed to death and no one would have been the wiser, as there would still be blood, and he would still die of knife wounds. Heck, give him a positronic brain. Still cyborg, still likely to go unnoticed by the people stabbing him to death, mourning his dead body, and cremating him.

Wikipedia claims that even Humanoid Cylons might qualify as Cyborgs, depending on how you define it, and the only way you tell them apart from humans is with a blood test.

 

[Easykill]

I think I would have preferred the religiosity debate to this. I mean, if someone ever asks me for the definition of a nerd, I can just come here and show them a bunch of people having a debate over what the definition of a cyborg is after someones offhand, and sarcastic, remark.