Poll: Do You Like Bad Endings?

[MammothBlade]

Absolutely. BRING IT ON. I love having heart-breaking scenes, perhaps I'm a masochist, but it's fun being able to do something very wrong that isn't immediately apparent. That's part of the appeal of visual novels and other games with multiple choices. Cause and effect.

i'm an escapist. i consume entertainment media to escape from bad endings. i avoid them when possible, and in instances where they're unavoidable, then i just hate them, and curse the medium into the depths of oblivion. how dare you inject real world futility into my fantasy worlds.

So as an escapist consumer you just want rainbows and bunnies beamed directly into your brain, why not just live in a bubble if that suits you? Or is it impossible to enjoy "losing" something? You're missing out on a lot if you confine yourself to purely "positive" entertainment.

beaming rainbows and bunnies directly into my brain? sounds wonderful. i'll take it. however, i think you're going off topic a little. this is about bad endings, not purely positive entertainment, or entertainment with no negative aspects. things would be pretty dull if nothing bad ever happened. i just don't like it when the protagonist ultimately fails, and the message is that life is cruel or unfair or whatever. i already -know- that. i'm trying to get -away- from that. i don't need to be told this when i'm trying to enjoy myself/forget about reality.
but to each their own. i'm not saying it's wrong to enjoy bad endings. i'm just saying it's not for me. if your reality's so naturally full of rainbows and bunnies that you welcome messages reinforcing futility as a refreshing changes of pace, then power to you.

But, but, doesn't it evoke a wonderful sense of schadenfreude to watch your protagonist fail miserably, partly because of the choices you have made? What if there's multiple endings, some bad, some good, some inbetween? Doesn't that give you an incentive to play differently next time?

 

[Alfador_VII]

Generally no, but sometimes they can be memorable if well done

Spoiler: Do I really need to spoiler tag the ending of a game as old as Wing Commander I? :)

I remember one of the bad endings of Wing Commander to this day. Basically you're losing control of the sector as the Kilrathi take over, the last mission has you defending the carrier, Tiger's Claw as it prepares to jump out.

Unfortunately, they don't have to time to wait and pick up all the fighters, so the last thing you see is the glow of the Tiger's Claw engines as it jumps to Hyperspace leaving you to your ievitable death...

 

[Trollthean]

I like the vaporisation ending in ME3. Everyone sacrificed themselves for future races.

 

[optimusjamie]

Probably one of my favourite uses of the 'bad end' is Spec Ops: The Line.

Spoiler

Which ending you choose pretty much depends on whether you think Walker can be redeemed or not. I went for the good ending, where Walker goes home, which I think means he can be redeemed. However, someone who went for a bad ending would probably think that he can't.

 

[Grivahri]

I don't like any ending where my main character doesn't succeed with his goal, especially if I can't avoid it.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Depends on the context of "bad".
Suikoden 2 has three distinct endings: One "Normal Victory", one "Best Ending" and a semi-hidden "Bad Ending".
Obvious spoilers are obvious.

Spoiler: Major Spoilers for a great game YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

The first two endings are similar.

1) "Normal": The first basically ends with you as "king" of a new nation.
2) "Best": You have to collect all 108 Stars of Destiny before infiltrating Rockaxe, due to the events at Rockaxe Castle, then refuse leadership (refuse the Normal Ending) duel Jowy and REFUSE TO ATTACK HIM.

In short, this is the Happy Ending, where the young kids have won out, the war is over, Nanami is alive and neither side has to shoulder much of any sort of responsibility for their actions. They are even still in the prime of their youth and can go on to live their lives at the best of it.

It's not a terrible ending if you really want the game to end on a high note with warm fuzzies but in a strange way, I consider it the worst ending and I'll explain why below.

3) "Bad": During the events of Tinto, you take the advice of Nanami and run away from the conflict entirely; opting to live out the remainder of your life in peace and seclusion.

Now, the game does everything it can to shame you into sticking around, but I rather like this ending because it ties in with the theme of children going to war (namely, that they shouldn't).

Jowy and the player character (tentatively named "Riou") are best friends who through fate, end up on the opposite sides of a brutal war and ultimately adopt different methods for trying to end the war. And it harms them, both physically and mentally. Suikoden 2 goes to lengths to show that it's harming them repeatedly.

Riou's adopted sister Nanami acts as the proverbial "Voice of Childhood" and is CONSTANTLY suggesting that they don't belong at the battlefront and that it's not their war to fight. She questions the actions of Jowy and later the actions of Jowy and Riou when it appears that they could simply end the war following the death of Luca Blight, who started and perpetuated the war.

And in part, she is correct. With Luca Blight was far too dangerous to not stand up to for both nations, and the game more or less proves this by having both Riou and Jowy be responsible for Luca's death even though they're on opposing sides of a war.

But once Luca Blight is dead, the game comes seemingly to a halt, and for good reason: Jowy and Riou do not want to face each other. However, they cannot simply end the war because both their respective countries are too invested in the war to stop and in-universe, the two halves of the Rune of Beginnings they bear are by nature in endless conflict dragging their bearers into that conflict.

The conflict only ends when one side is defeated or admits defeat (with the exception of the Best Ending, which is basically the conflict ending by one half "forgiving" the other).

An alternative extension of the Normal Ending involves killing Jowy in the Duel, proving the White Shield beat the Black Sword and ending the conflict. Riou then goes onto lead his country.

But the Bad ending also ends this conflict: The White Shield Bearer Riou leaves the conflict entirely, admitting defeat on the grounds of losing the will to continue. It's a metaphorical submission.

If playing normally, Nanami, being the Voice of Childhood, questions why it has to end that way, and begs Jowy and Riou to end the conflict. Knowing that actually gives the Bad Ending more weight. Nanami even "dies" during the events of Rockaxe before Jowy and Riou's eyes as a consequence of political machinations; machinations caused by the war so Nanami is literally and metaphorically slain by the war she detests.

(well...she lives in the Best Ending, faking her death for somewhat contrived stated reasons. But if you don't have all 108 Stars of Destiny and do nothing at a certain event, she dies for real.)

Nanami is...polarizing. She is obnoxious comic relief for a good chunk of the game and is CONSTANTLY forcing her way into your party, but at the same time the game mostly falls apart without her. She's supposed to be annoying because she's immature and that is ironically what makes her and the theme of "children shouldn't go to war" more believable.

When taking the Bad Ending, you lose out on the last 25% or so of the game, but it's an ending that makes sense even if it isn't the canonical ending.

More personally: This is one of the few times where a JRPG actually has the balls to say something out of the ordinary; it's not an especially deep message but it's one that has more clout and less trope-wank than the usual Coming of Age + Kill Satan + Power of Friendship + Children Save the World most JRPGs present. It's probably why Suikoden 2 still stands out to me.

And that is one instance where I actually found more value in the Normal and especially Bad endings than the Best Ending.

 

[Sir Christopher McFarlane]

If it makes sense for the story, it's OK. Not every struggle ends in victory.

 

[krazykidd]

Not really.

They just feel like elaborate 'Game Over' screens.

Can you give an example? Does the hero really need to ALWAYS win and save the day , and make everything rainbows and sunshines?( and please don't say ME3)

OT: i like bad endings, i find that not enough games movies have ending where the hero dies or fails his mission . It would be interesting to see darker endings . Especially if there is going to be a sequel .

 

[krazykidd]

Double post . Sorry.

 

[Akytalusia]

Absolutely. BRING IT ON. I love having heart-breaking scenes, perhaps I'm a masochist, but it's fun being able to do something very wrong that isn't immediately apparent. That's part of the appeal of visual novels and other games with multiple choices. Cause and effect.

i'm an escapist. i consume entertainment media to escape from bad endings. i avoid them when possible, and in instances where they're unavoidable, then i just hate them, and curse the medium into the depths of oblivion. how dare you inject real world futility into my fantasy worlds.

So as an escapist consumer you just want rainbows and bunnies beamed directly into your brain, why not just live in a bubble if that suits you? Or is it impossible to enjoy "losing" something? You're missing out on a lot if you confine yourself to purely "positive" entertainment.

beaming rainbows and bunnies directly into my brain? sounds wonderful. i'll take it. however, i think you're going off topic a little. this is about bad endings, not purely positive entertainment, or entertainment with no negative aspects. things would be pretty dull if nothing bad ever happened. i just don't like it when the protagonist ultimately fails, and the message is that life is cruel or unfair or whatever. i already -know- that. i'm trying to get -away- from that. i don't need to be told this when i'm trying to enjoy myself/forget about reality.
but to each their own. i'm not saying it's wrong to enjoy bad endings. i'm just saying it's not for me. if your reality's so naturally full of rainbows and bunnies that you welcome messages reinforcing futility as a refreshing changes of pace, then power to you.

But, but, doesn't it evoke a wonderful sense of schadenfreude to watch your protagonist fail miserably, partly because of the choices you have made? What if there's multiple endings, some bad, some good, some inbetween? Doesn't that give you an incentive to play differently next time?

if there's multiple endings and at least one of them is good, then i can handle bad endings. they'll give me motivation to find the good one, and it'll be all the more satisfying. but things like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.409363-Save-The-Date-A-indie-interactive-story-that-all-of-you-must-play], fuck that game and all it's ilk. i think you'd really like it though, if you haven't played it. i recommend it.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Don't think it depends on the game. Its impossible to generalize and say i like or dislike all bad endings.

And to go even deeper, some of the bad endings i like are because they make me regret my desicions. (i.e infamous 2)

 

[Grahav]

I guess the reason that why so many people (including me) enjoy that sad ending is because they have been playing as Emiya and have been smashed, cut, cursed, burned, torn, tsundered and being called fat by almost every single other character in the game. And that even without getting the dead/bad endings. "Mind of Steel" is tragic and sad, but from a player's perspective is viciously cathartic.

I really do not understand that perspective. Shirou's been smashed, cut, cursed, burned, torn, and tsundere'd by most of the people in the game, and every single time he's flipped the bird at whoever did it and come out gloriously on top. Mind of Steel strikes me about as cathartic as a murder-suicide.

I also don't believe I've ever heard that perspective before. I think I've only ever heard, "deep-seated problems with Sakura/Heaven's Feel in general," "he's Kiritsugu now? That's awesome," or people mistakenly thinking that it's keeping with Shirou's ideals.

And there is the factor that a lot more of people live in that way. Yeah, the innocent person that you love and others die, but hundreds of innocents that you don't know live and Shirou becomes Stannis Baratheon. It contrasts perfectly with the true endings of Heaven's Feel which makes both endings even more powerfull.

"Contrast" is probably the nicer word for it. "Contradicts" is the word I typically use, since (because it totally ignores both Shirou's character revelations of Fate, the moral of Unlimited Blade Works, and <color=aliceblue>Archer's motivations) it's one of the most incredibly out-of-character actions he could possibly make. The fact that dozens at most of offscreen innocents survive is the only positive aspect, and it's entirely incidental.

...then again, since it's pretty much the exact opposite of the entire route's story, I do see your point about it making the endings even more powerful. Although, since there was never a possibility that I'd abandon Sakura, it was one I missed in my actual playthrough.

Shirou may have flipped he bird and have brushed it off, but I got really pissed off a lot of times.

About his ideals, the thing is that they reach a fork. Either he saves a lot of innocent people and let a few loved ones die (cruel) or he sacrifices a lot of people fo the sake of one person (selfish). The tragedy is that his ideals lose either way.

 

[Captain Booyah]

I voted "yes," but only if a bad ending is genuinely fitting. If it's a cheap afterthought in an effort to make the game dark and edgy, then bollocks to it. My favourite is still Silent Hill 2's "In Water" ending, which is an appropriately tragic end to a tragic story, despite also being a complete kick in the teeth. On the opposite end of the scale are games like Fallout 3, where choosing the most logical option apparently makes you a coward, and BioShock, which had the "afterthought" vibe about it. And was also pretty dumb.

 

[Strelok]

Sure, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl had 5 out of the 7 endings being bad. My first play through I ignored all the warnings and pressed for the wish granter hording money the entire time. The bad ending fit the play style. Metro 2033 had a bad ending.

Spoiler

Which is the real ending to the book as well.[\spoiler]

So did Metro: Last Light, all done very well.

 

[Toxic Sniper]

I generally don't like definite "bad" endings chosen based on your success or the choices you made in a game. Bleak endings aren't a bad thing in and of themselves, but the bad endings we're talking about generally aren't well-planned conclusions, but instead simple "LOLdead" worst-case scenario writing.

Endings that are arbitrarily chosen, like ME3's, DE:HR's and Dark Souls', aren't particularly satisfying either. They're like a nice cinematic, and although the latter two do a decent job of showing endings as shades of grey, it doesn't really have any impact because you chose them on a whim.

I was thinking of Dark Souls and I'm rather conflicted on it. I think part of the problem with Dark Souls's ending was that most people didn't realize they even had a choice, or if they did, they didn't really understand the ramifications of what that choice meant. On the one hand, making the choice non-obvious was more elegant and realistic than the Blue-Green-Red Deus Ex/Mass Effect 3 ending. On the other, having a choice doesn't really matter unless you understand what that choice means.

It definitely wasn't particularly satisfying, even when you have the necessary context. I felt they could have at least shown the effect of lighting the flame (A light being cast across Anor Londo and Firelink and something like that) or leaving it be (Those areas growing darker instead, with the undead you've met previously who are still alive standing up from the spots they always sit at and contemplating their new role in this uncertain age).

 

[Alhazred]

Chrono Trigger uses the bad ending quite well, I think. Lose to Lavos in the final battle and and cutscene plays showing the people of 2000 AD get nuked by the cosmic parasite when he emerges. You're confronted with the image of grey, dead planet, almost completely scoured of life.

And then the immortal words appear: "But The Future Refused To Change..."

Really shows what a threat Lavos is, and reminds you what is at stake in the final battle.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Generally. Since most of the time your quest is to stop the villain du jour we rarely get to see their big plan in action and thus may not have a clear idea of the stakes involved. If you have an ending where the villain's doomsday device actually succeeds in destroying the world and you see the results and the tears of all the characters you just FAILED to save, it's good motivation and interest.

Banjo Kazooie's bad ending isn't that sort of gruesome, but still amusing to watch. Glad to see someone mentioned the creepy Lavos Ending as well. Then there's this one:

Spoiler: Firebrand, you done goofed

There's also a feature on particularly creepy bad endings on Youtube. Just enter 'creepy bad endings'. The Splatterhouse 3 one is pretty nasty.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

snip

I was thinking of Dark Souls and I'm rather conflicted on it. I think part of the problem with Dark Souls's ending was that most people didn't realize they even had a choice, or if they did, they didn't really understand the ramifications of what that choice meant. On the one hand, making the choice non-obvious was more elegant and realistic than the Blue-Green-Red Deus Ex/Mass Effect 3 ending. On the other, having a choice doesn't really matter unless you understand what that choice means.

It definitely wasn't particularly satisfying, even when you have the necessary context. I felt they could have at least shown the effect of lighting the flame (A light being cast across Anor Londo and Firelink and something like that) or leaving it be (Those areas growing darker instead, with the undead you've met previously who are still alive standing up from the spots they always sit at and contemplating their new role in this uncertain age).

I'm inclined to agree. Even paying attention to item descriptions and NPC dialogue, the ramifications of extending the flame or leading the Dark are pretty vague, especially when considering the age of Dark is sort of said to be the age of man...and yet the forces of Dark you've seen just pillage humanity. And whether anything you're doing affects the spread of the Darksign is almost not even addressed. Honestly, for the Dark ending, I'd not have minded seeing any still-living NPCs be slain by Darkwraiths, and for the fire ending, see the deities fighting hordes of undead, if that fits with the story. That's how hazy I am on the undead curse and how it pertains to the player. But yes, most people I suspect linked the flame because that's what you do after every Lord boss fight, go to the fire, or chose the Dark ending by trying to go back to the Lordvessel, and probably didn't know really what they were doing either way.

 

[Strazdas]

I usually play a good guy so i rarely get the bad ending, but i like when i do that.

 

[Longstreet]

A bad ending (as in evil) does not equal a bad ending (as in, pure shit ending)
As long as it is a satisfying conclusion i don't really care what i get.

The last bad ending i got was in Metro Last Light. I was a dick and killed everyone. Even reloaded a save because i accidently saved someone and i wanted him dead. Then at the end i

Spoiler

blew my own ass up and i was left wondering why those dark ones didnt help me out, then i saw the good ending

That is not a good/bad ending done right, some of the stuff you gotta do to get the good ending -seriously, play a guitar?- is complete BS, but thats just the last one i got.