Poll: Do You Manspread
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I think it is very interesting how you are so hellbent on "proving" that people who say are uncomfortable sitting with their legs together, as men, are lying.Silvanus said:
I honestly don't know what to tell you. I am not an ass taking up unnessecary space, but I do sit with my legs slightly spread. I do it because if I don't, it is uncomfortable. That is not a lie. I have runs four times a week for training and do not have testicular cancer. Sitting with my knees together is still not something I can do and be fine.
People are different. Why does your experience invalidate mine?
I'm sorry, but yeah, it's a gendered thing. Just like it's more common for men to belch and fart in public (If you're going to disagree with me on this then I don't really know where to go from here) it's more common for men to man-spread. I've seen countless guys do it in my transit experiences, and never once seen a woman do it. Women tend to get it beat into their head a lot harder that they must be polite, considerate and unimposing. There's an expectation for them to do that. There's not nearly the same expectation for guys.
I don't do it myself, but I clearly have massively undersized testicles if it's supposed to be a physical necessity.
I don't do it myself, but I clearly have massively undersized testicles if it's supposed to be a physical necessity.
I'm not sure why there are quote marks around "proving". Who're you quoting?s0denone said:
Righto. You'll notice I'm not arguing people shouldn't leave a "slight" gap, which most people do.s0denone said:
This is the height of hypocrisy, coming after you claimed that "the only men who can sit with their knees together and not be wildly uncomfortable are either skinny as fuck, because they have no thighs or haven't had their balls drop yet [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.937092-Poll-Do-You-Manspread?page=2#23608718]".s0denone said:
You generalised your experience to all men, and said quite explicitly that nobody experiences it differently unless they're "a boy, not a man". You said that. What mindblowing hypocrisy to say with a straight face that I'm the one invalidating the experiences of others.
I'm quoting you. I am using quotationmarks because such proof is impossible, yet you're still trying your best.Silvanus said:
Okay, so will you claim to know the definition of "manspreading"? A short google search gives me everything from the exaggerated and rude to something that looks very normal to me.
I conceded later(EDIT: I should add you replied to this concession, so you are well aware of that, making you rather disingenuous), that it might well be the case for the average, but still remain rather steadfast that the fat or the fit (i.e. men with big thighs) cannot be comfortable in such a position.
I might be wrong, maybe there are outliers with big thighs who can sit comfortably with their legs together. I don't know any men that sit like that unless they absolutely have to; in fact I don't know if I've ever seen it.
What do you think? Am I still a hypocrit? Does me being a hypocrit give you carte blanche to invalidate my experience, and the experience of ALL of the other men replying in this very thread, saying sitting like that makes them uncomfortable? Is this some kind of conspiracy that we all coordinated? "Hey guys, you have to go and lie in this thread real quick"?
Probably. No one complains about women taking up too much space with their bags. The fact that this is an issue at all just shows how desperately feminists are clinging to relevancy.
First to answer the topic: No I don't manspread, I don't spread my legs at all generally, then again I only wear pants that are pajamas, or lounge wear, neither are what one wears out and about. Meaning when I do go out, thus have to use the bus, I wear skirts, clothing not conducive to spreading one's legs anyways. Even in a skirt that falls below my knees when sitting, spreading my legs still feels improper. Having said that, when I go to do household shopping I take two large fabric square shopping bags, both of which can fit in my lap, but I generally set one on a neighboring seat if the bus isn't packed.
What manspreading is not; it is not spreading one's legs far enough apart to prevent ball crushing. I'm a trans woman, I had testicles before orchi, I know that cramming one's legs together can be uncomfortable. I also have had enough male friends, who I happen to know have sizable packaging, they don't take up three seats to be passably comfortable. To put the point further, I know a lot of trans women who are totally pre-op, or non-op, who tuck, and tuck comfortably, from experience I know that tucking is a lot less comfortable than closing one's legs...
What manspreading actually is? Sitting in a middle seat and spreading one's legs so far apart that you impinge upon both neighboring seats. Seriously the only way one could spread their legs any farther apart is to do the splits. I grew up doing ballet and I can do the splits, and sitting like that is uncomfortable to me. Not only that every single guy I know says that sitting with your legs spread as far a part as you can manage, is uncomfortable to them too. Manspreading is not about being comfortable, it's about being inconvinent to other people, which is being a jerk for the sake of pissing other people off.
Further more, I know plenty of large frame guys, who on some of the buses that are used in my area, take up more than a regular seat, generally because the seats are too small for them. Nobody complains about that, because those are the physical realities of these guys. On the other hand if they're taking the space of a seat and part of another, but there are two smaller people who could sit, the big guys offer their seats to the others. This is common courtesy, if the space is free on public transport, then you're totally free to take it up, but if things are getting cramped, you make allowances for other people. Not making allowances for other people is self centered bullshit, because you are not the center of the goddamn universe and that applies no matter your gender.
I've been on buses that are packed to the gills, where you don't even have personal space from other people standing up, everyone makes accommodations for other people to fit on the bus. Do you know what happens to people who intentionally take up extra space, while refusing to give any space up? They get kicked off the bus, for good reason too, because they're being assholes.
To hammer the point home, I'm physically disabled, I have arthritis in all of my joints, but my knees are especially bad, they often won't hold my weight, so I have to walk with a cane. Every bus in my town has signs, back to the half way point on the bus, that say those seats should given up for elderly and disabled people. It's policy with the bus company in my area that, that if you hold a disabled, or senior citizen transit card, which lets you use appropriate reduced rate passes, you can ask for those seats. If the person currently occupying said seat isn't elderly, or disabled, but refuses you the seat... They can be kicked off the bus by the by the bus driver. Why? Simple, because they're actually violating both the rules of common courtesy that the bus company has, along with the ADA reasonable accommodations requirements.
That's the thing people who manspread are like selfish teens who refuse to give up seats for elderly and disabled people. They're not doing what they do to be comfortable, they're doing what they do for selfish reasons that inconvenience people. Manspreading started as a plot to piss off "feminist harpies", by having men sacrifice their comfort to take up more space than they need. This doesn't prove that feminism is irrelevant, it proves that there are men around who are so put out by attempts at equality, that they'll misbehave like petulant children.
I'm calling bullshit on this for several reasons: The first is that no one also complains when a guy takes up two seats by setting a backpack, or laptop bag, in the next seat over. Women often do this too, but generally if you need the seat a woman will put the backpack/laptop bag in her lap and give you the seat. On the other hand a lot of guys who refuse to free up a seat, because they're making a statement against feminism. The second is I've never seen a woman's handbag so huge that blocks a neighboring seat, especially because I've never seen a handbag so large it doesn't fit in a person's lap. Third is shopping bags, men carry them too, sometimes a freaking ton of them, but hey if you're getting groceries home, then I'm not going to begrudge you, regardless of gender. Fourth is most people will put their baggage in their lap, or on the floor between their ankles, or pick a section of the bus where they can rest their baggage, including suit cases and duffel bags. Most people are courteous with their baggage, at least attempting to keep it out of the way, which is why no one complains about them, this is not the case with manspreading though.johnnyboy2537 said:
What manspreading is not; it is not spreading one's legs far enough apart to prevent ball crushing. I'm a trans woman, I had testicles before orchi, I know that cramming one's legs together can be uncomfortable. I also have had enough male friends, who I happen to know have sizable packaging, they don't take up three seats to be passably comfortable. To put the point further, I know a lot of trans women who are totally pre-op, or non-op, who tuck, and tuck comfortably, from experience I know that tucking is a lot less comfortable than closing one's legs...
What manspreading actually is? Sitting in a middle seat and spreading one's legs so far apart that you impinge upon both neighboring seats. Seriously the only way one could spread their legs any farther apart is to do the splits. I grew up doing ballet and I can do the splits, and sitting like that is uncomfortable to me. Not only that every single guy I know says that sitting with your legs spread as far a part as you can manage, is uncomfortable to them too. Manspreading is not about being comfortable, it's about being inconvinent to other people, which is being a jerk for the sake of pissing other people off.
Further more, I know plenty of large frame guys, who on some of the buses that are used in my area, take up more than a regular seat, generally because the seats are too small for them. Nobody complains about that, because those are the physical realities of these guys. On the other hand if they're taking the space of a seat and part of another, but there are two smaller people who could sit, the big guys offer their seats to the others. This is common courtesy, if the space is free on public transport, then you're totally free to take it up, but if things are getting cramped, you make allowances for other people. Not making allowances for other people is self centered bullshit, because you are not the center of the goddamn universe and that applies no matter your gender.
I've been on buses that are packed to the gills, where you don't even have personal space from other people standing up, everyone makes accommodations for other people to fit on the bus. Do you know what happens to people who intentionally take up extra space, while refusing to give any space up? They get kicked off the bus, for good reason too, because they're being assholes.
To hammer the point home, I'm physically disabled, I have arthritis in all of my joints, but my knees are especially bad, they often won't hold my weight, so I have to walk with a cane. Every bus in my town has signs, back to the half way point on the bus, that say those seats should given up for elderly and disabled people. It's policy with the bus company in my area that, that if you hold a disabled, or senior citizen transit card, which lets you use appropriate reduced rate passes, you can ask for those seats. If the person currently occupying said seat isn't elderly, or disabled, but refuses you the seat... They can be kicked off the bus by the by the bus driver. Why? Simple, because they're actually violating both the rules of common courtesy that the bus company has, along with the ADA reasonable accommodations requirements.
That's the thing people who manspread are like selfish teens who refuse to give up seats for elderly and disabled people. They're not doing what they do to be comfortable, they're doing what they do for selfish reasons that inconvenience people. Manspreading started as a plot to piss off "feminist harpies", by having men sacrifice their comfort to take up more space than they need. This doesn't prove that feminism is irrelevant, it proves that there are men around who are so put out by attempts at equality, that they'll misbehave like petulant children.
I mean I'm a gentleman of size, so no matter what I do I spill over into the next seat anyway.
I think it's a dumb thing to complain about. Not everyone is going to able to sit on public transport, deal with it.
I think it's a dumb thing to complain about. Not everyone is going to able to sit on public transport, deal with it.
Well there is a difference between physically taking up more space because of one's physical size and just taking up more space than necessary, just because you can...DudeistBelieve said:
On crowded public transport no one is going to be comfortable, but that doesn't excuse the people who take up more space than actually necessary.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I just kinda accept thats just how the game is played. I get into a room with strangers, and the only open seats are between people, I'm standing if at all possible and I'm not cursing people in my head for not sharing a seat. I see the guy spread out over the seat, all I'm thinking is, "Damn guys lucky."KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
I'm not going to hold it against a person for essentially not being polite, because none of us like sitting that close to strangers. It sucks, and we all know it does. If it didn't when we see that next guy get on the bus and do the "look" for an appropriate seat, we'd be waving our arms frantically going "Sit down right here, stranger!" instead of thinking "Please don't sit here, please don't sit here, please don't sit here."
It's not the right thing to do, but if one is willing to be that aggressive, more power to them.
See that might not be an issue, if someone physically takes up more space than normal, because that's how they're built, no problem, even if that person is just fat. The issue comes when someone takes up multiple seats, but could easily fit in one... I'm disabled, I sometimes can't simply stand... If someone is taking up multiple seats when they don't need to, I'll complain, if the person in question doesn't heed me, then I'll complain to an official source. I don't look at a person taking up two, or more seats, especially when sitting space is limited, as being lucky, I see them as a selfish entitled jackass. On a bus, if it's crowded and I can stand, I will, but I'm not going to give a pass to someone making everyone else's lives hell, just because they want to.DudeistBelieve said:
I'm not going to hold it against a person for not being polite, but I will hold it against them for intentionally being an asshole. I've had to squish myself and be uncomfortable because people needed the seats next to me. That's not inviting people, that's making a basic necessary sacrifice for other people, in which case, those people weren't comfortable either, but at least those who really needed to sit got to. There's a big difference here.DudeistBelieve said:
Again, excluding people from having a place when they might need it, that's not just the wrong thing to do, it's being a shit person. You might not challenge people for it, but I will, because otherwise I might end up on the floor in agony. So it's not about being aggressive for me, it's about my basic well being, which even then I'll make accommodations for others... I've given up my seat for weaker, or older people, for pregnant women who have issues standing... Still I won't let a jack ass who takes up two or three seats, when someone else might need them, just because they want to be a jerk. This isn't being aggressive, it's being reasonable, if someone isn't going to be reasonable to others, then I'll get them thrown out if I can. It is not my job to put up with other people's selfish bullshit, by that token, I'm not going to either...DudeistBelieve said:
Yes, it's uncomfortable not do, and if I paid money to get on public transport, I think a right to not be uncomfortable for the duration isn't too much to ask.
Then I'd say your circumstances are different. That seat isn't a want for you, it's a need. At which point, yeah, more power to ya to do what you got to do. Different rules. Different perspective.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
But for me, it's a want. And theres nothing for me to gain by calling someone else out on it.
Everyone else paid to be there too, if your being comfortable means making others extremely uncomfortable, you're not exactly in the right. Granted that's an if... Still if the rest of us have to me uncomfortable you're not exempt, it's basic common courtesy, you can't expect others to consider you, when you don't consider them... Well at least not reasonably.The Lunatic said:
Sounds nice and good, but it's not exactly the truth. There are a lot of people who will put themselves in uncomfortable situations just to inconvenience other people, these people are assholes.Bat Vader said:
That doesn't apply to a guy who sits with his knees a reasonably comfortable distance appart, it applies to the person who spreads their legs so far that they impinge upon two other seats. That's not about an individual's personal comfort, it's about making others uncomfortable, period.
The issue isn't with guys who sit with their legs comfortably spread, it's about guys who spread their legs as far apart as they're physically able, to make a statement against "feminism".
I just have more clout because I'm disabled and often need the seat... Still people making themselves an intentional nuisance on public transportation, that's something we should address, because it really only benefits the person being a jerk in these situations.DudeistBelieve said:
I think public transport has bigger problems than the pathetically pity topic of "Manspreading".
Like those in a rush busy 9-5, 5-6 figure salary city folks who will push and shove you, your kid, the old lady next to you, the bloke in the wheelchair, the mother with a pram and a blind guy out of the way just so they aren't late and don't get shouted out by their overly pissed off boss with a wife that doesn't love him any more and kids who either doesn't give a fuck about life, unemployed or always away from home. That's the kind of asshole you need to watch out for. The Cunts.
Oh and the increased reporting of sexual assaults/harassment. It's on the rise and some people just shouldn't be in public.
NO ONE WANTS TO SEE YOUR DICK DURING RUSH HOUR!!
Like those in a rush busy 9-5, 5-6 figure salary city folks who will push and shove you, your kid, the old lady next to you, the bloke in the wheelchair, the mother with a pram and a blind guy out of the way just so they aren't late and don't get shouted out by their overly pissed off boss with a wife that doesn't love him any more and kids who either doesn't give a fuck about life, unemployed or always away from home. That's the kind of asshole you need to watch out for. The Cunts.
Oh and the increased reporting of sexual assaults/harassment. It's on the rise and some people just shouldn't be in public.
NO ONE WANTS TO SEE YOUR DICK DURING RUSH HOUR!!
That's called assault possibly resulting in battery if you injure the person you're going after, at any rate it's extremely illegal and is a crime. Honestly if there were how you'd respond, then you'd probably be in prison... In my experience it's far simpler to get somebody ejected for being an inconsiderate jerk, you know, they get kicked off the bus/train and you don't go to jail.Bat Vader said: