Poll: Do you support compulsory military service?

[Karma168]

No. CMS is basically a prison sentence for those who have committed no crime. If you want to join the military, you do it voluntarily. No man who wishes to avoid serving should ever be forced to, period.

Prison sentence? really? I'd hardly call having guaranteed employment and freedom to go where you want except when on duty a prison sentence.

If you didn't want to do it then there is a conscientious objection rule that would allow you to avoid military service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

If there is ever a draft, or a non-wartime form of conscription is ever instated in my country, I will not serve. If they send men to my place of residence to force me to go, I will not answer the door for them. If they break it down to try and take me, I will treat them like any other intruder- I will defend myself, with lethal force if needed. That is the extent to which I oppose any form of conscription.

You do realise by doing that you would ruin your easiest chance at avoiding service. By peacefully objecting you can avoid serving, by killing the people sent to conscript you you would just end up in jail for the rest of your life or dead. Is that worth it to avoid joining the military?

 

[Uncreation]

No. CMS is basically a prison sentence for those who have committed no crime. If you want to join the military, you do it voluntarily. No man who wishes to avoid serving should ever be forced to, period.

Prison sentence? really? I'd hardly call having guaranteed employment and freedom to go where you want except when on duty a prison sentence.

If you didn't want to do it then there is a conscientious objection rule that would allow you to avoid military service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

If there is ever a draft, or a non-wartime form of conscription is ever instated in my country, I will not serve. If they send men to my place of residence to force me to go, I will not answer the door for them. If they break it down to try and take me, I will treat them like any other intruder- I will defend myself, with lethal force if needed. That is the extent to which I oppose any form of conscription.

You do realise by doing that you would ruin your easiest chance at avoiding service. By peacefully objecting you can avoid serving, by killing the people sent to conscript you you would just end up in jail for the rest of your life or dead. Is that worth it to avoid joining the military?

Maybe in his country he doesn't have that option. I'm sure there are countries where the whole conscientious objector thing is not in effect.

 

[Karma168]

Maybe in his country he doesn't have that option. I'm sure there are countries where the whole conscientious objector thing is not in effect.

Perhaps, from what I've read from the wiki page the UN human rights commission has rules hat protect objectors from persecution for refusing to serve. My point was that resorting to violence wouldn't solve the problem and that there is always a peaceful solution somewhere.

 

[ryai458]

No because most people are too dumb and fat to even be eligible for the military, and all volunteer militaries are much more effective.

 

[Lionsfan]

if i was conscripted, i'd at least ask to be off the front lines.
Also, i think its sexist that only men can be deployed on front lines.

It's not being sexist, it's just being practical. Woman have the annoying tendency of being able to get pregnant, so to be on the safe side they make sure they don't deploy. And it's still the fact that most of our military is predominantly male so it's not really a big issue.

OT: I don't really think so, there's just so many people in the country it would be too hard to figure out how to sort out all the new recruits who would only be in it for around 2 years (if we're going off other countries mandatory service policy) and it just wouldn't work out. And they wouldn't want to be there. When people enlist it's typically for a 4-6 year period, training takes up about 1.5 years but that's still around 3 years of use the Military gets out an enlistee. And the enlistee's are what the military is built on; people who voluntarily signed up, so they know exactly what they're getting into. So unless it's an extreme emergency I don't support Compulsory Military Service.

Compulsory Retail Service.

Who's with me?

This is a genius idea, people living off Mommy and Daddies Trust Fund need to learn what it's like on the other side. Knock those cheeky fuckers down a peg or two

 

[Uncreation]

Maybe in his country he doesn't have that option. I'm sure there are countries where the whole conscientious objector thing is not in effect.

Perhaps, from what I've read from the wiki page the UN human rights commission has rules hat protect objectors from persecution for refusing to serve. My point was that resorting to violence wouldn't solve the problem and that there is always a peaceful solution somewhere.

I don't know what the UN does or does not have, but i'm telling you, in my country, until CMS was abolished, you HAD to serve. I've never heard of being left alone cause you were a constientious objector. The only way they didn't take you was if you had a medical condition, for religious reasons (but it only worked for some religions, mostly really obscure ones, that had only a handful of follower in the entire country) or if you were in college (in which case they wouldn't take you that year). Out of all my friend, relatives, etc. i have never heard anything about getting away this easilly.

Of course, there were ways of cheating the system. > But i didn't have to resort to that fortunately.

 

[blind_dead_mcjones]

nooo

reason being is it simply creates more problems than it solves, aside from the issue of having to wade through 10 times as much junk to get the 'diamonds in the rough' so to speak, forcibly enrolling unmotivated people into the armed forces does not motivate them or 'build character' in the slightest, if there is a way for them to avoid doing something they can and will find said way and exploit it for as long as possible

 

[SckizoBoy]

No... however, I do believe in a form of National Service.

Let people choose between the emergency services (but not firefighting 'cos... you know, of all the fire) and the military services and do a stint. If they like it, great, they can continue, but if they don't, meh, do it for the exercise and discipline. In the good old days, the Armed Forces would pay for you to go to uni... wonder if that still happens.

But, one thing I will forever disagree with, is the deployment of non-professional military personnel overseas. You sign up for the Territorial Army, you expect to be called up when there is a direct threat to your nation's security. Anyone who mentions Iraq's WMDs? Well, yes, that's why there is a regular army.

I guess most people here are pissed that the TA/National Guard's been posted out...?

(on all counts, please correct me if wrong)

 

[SirDoom]

No. CMS is basically a prison sentence for those who have committed no crime. If you want to join the military, you do it voluntarily. No man who wishes to avoid serving should ever be forced to, period.

Prison sentence? really? I'd hardly call having guaranteed employment and freedom to go where you want except when on duty a prison sentence.

If you didn't want to do it then there is a conscientious objection rule that would allow you to avoid military service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

If there is ever a draft, or a non-wartime form of conscription is ever instated in my country, I will not serve. If they send men to my place of residence to force me to go, I will not answer the door for them. If they break it down to try and take me, I will treat them like any other intruder- I will defend myself, with lethal force if needed. That is the extent to which I oppose any form of conscription.

You do realise by doing that you would ruin your easiest chance at avoiding service. By peacefully objecting you can avoid serving, by killing the people sent to conscript you you would just end up in jail for the rest of your life or dead. Is that worth it to avoid joining the military?

The thing is, conscientious objectors are usually forced into non-combat roles, and being forced to work in a military hospital (or hell, even as a mail worker) against your will is just as bad.

Picture the same scenario in a private setting. The person in question has signed no contract, and owes no debt which they must work off. They are free to go anywhere they like in the 16 hours of the day when they aren't working. But, in that 8 hours, they are forced into a job which they can't quit. It does not matter if they already had a job, or had other commitments. They MUST work for that company for a year, and if they refuse, they get prison. Tell me, is that acceptable? If this situation was forced upon any man today, would the courts not side with him in a case?

No, that's involuntary servitude. You could argue it's "for his own good." You could argue that it's a guaranteed source of income for him for that year. That doesn't change anything. Any court which found this happening would end the practice immediately. Why should the government get special rights to do exactly what anyone else is forbidden to?
---

As for the second part, it's on principle. I am (mostly) a pacifist, yes. I believe the only time it is ever ok to injure another person is in direct self defense (ie- while they are in the process of trying to hurt you). But, as mentioned above, the entire system is just wrong in my book. I shouldn't have to dance around saying "I'm a pacifist with flat feet, hemophilia, and an inability to work with other people without bursting into flames" to avoid something that is just plain wrong to begin with. Nobody, not even the perfectly obedient soldier type who holds pride in their country to the highest honor, should even be subject to involuntary servitude.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Not only is it violating peoples right, but it is downright stupid and pointless.

Those weekend soldiers aren't worth shit, you need to spend time and resources on training professional soldiers with proper equipment who will yield results, no just some rag-tag band of kids that will only be good for soaking up led.

 

[mxfox408]

Depends i dont think it should be forced but lets say world war 3 happens and our countries survival then im all for it, besides as a former ranger, it wouldnt bother me.

 

[mxfox408]

Not only is it violating peoples right, but it is downright stupid and pointless.

Those weekend soldiers aren't worth shit, you need to spend time and resources on training professional soldiers with proper equipment who will yield results, no just some rag-tag band of kids that will only be good for soaking up led.

Politicians need to let the military soldiers do thier jobs and stop knit picking.

 

[wetfart]

I voted other.

I'll see if I can find it, but I recall a study that shows a professional army performs better than a conscripted one.

 

[Sarge034]

Other. I belive it would help the US to force everyone to serve for one tour, but on the other hand it would compleatly defeat what we are trying to promote. That is free choice. The draft on the other hand is A OK. If things get so bad as to inact the draft we are all going to war. Some of you think that you will get a nice office job, but you are wrong. Think about Vietnam, no desk jobs there.

 

[The .50 Caliber Cow]

FUCK NO!

The moment Canada starts forcing me to serve is the moment I look for a way out.

 

[Tanner The Monotone]

No. I only have to watch the typical American highway for 5 minutes to determine that putting those dumb bastards behind an M16 is going to cause some serious friendly fire problems, as if we didn't already have enough. Heaven forbid they get their hands on a Hummer or a Tank...they'll find a way to get them stuck. Or hit a tree. In the desert.

Yes, they're that inept.

So no compulsory service for America. It'd ruin our military.

Only the Air force uses the m16 as there main rifle anymore, and if it comes to the point where the airforce has to fight on the ground, your probably screwed anyway.

 

[OldRat]

We get that here in Finland. If you don't want it, you get civil service, which is automatically twice as long (as the minimum service time). And in practice that means you'll spend your year wiping the elderly's behinds in a home or otherwise "serving" the country. And you even have to find your working place yourself for that year.
And the funniest part? You're actually less likely to get employed if you didn't go to army, since you're not a man and obviously cannot be trusted with any kind of demanding work. Or at least many employers here still check if you've served and make their judgement at least partially on that.
Oh, what's that? You think compulsory service's not good, or you're against armed conflict or something else? And you think civil service sounds like a bad way to spend a year? Well, then you go to spend your year in jail. Which officially won't get you a crime registry but apparently off the record gets you listed in many places.

So it's a bit shit. Especially considering how our military's not very good any more, and a professional army would, in my, and many others' opinion, work a lot better.

On a sidenote, many people are apparently cheating the system anyway by feigning mental instability when they're already in the army. That gets you sent home right quick (from what I hear, at least), and you don't exactly have to flip out and start shooting people. A friend of mine who's already served told me that one soldier (either he was still a recruit or already a private, I don't remember) started smashing himself in the head with his rifle butt during practice, and after a few hours of discussion was already on his way home.
Not that I advocate it, but there you go.

 

[FolkLikePanda]

Only when the countries under attack or if the country seems to be at total peace, combat experience and survival skills.

 

[Sarge034]

No. I only have to watch the typical American highway for 5 minutes to determine that putting those dumb bastards behind an M16 is going to cause some serious friendly fire problems, as if we didn't already have enough. Heaven forbid they get their hands on a Hummer or a Tank...they'll find a way to get them stuck. Or hit a tree. In the desert.

Yes, they're that inept.

So no compulsory service for America. It'd ruin our military.

Only the Air force uses the m16 as there main rifle anymore, and if it comes to the point where the airforce has to fight on the ground, your probably screwed anyway.

The Air Force has its own fleet of trucks, mecanics for thoes trucks, drivers for thoes trucks, convoy training for thoes troops going to the Middle East, and Airmen on the ground right now. The Air Force also has an elite Security Forces unit specifically trained to secure buildings. http://www.airmanonline.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123193069 But, on that note every service has troops on the ground, even the Navy. As for the M16 argument... The Air Force, Army, and Marines still use it. I hate Wikipedia, but it pulled the information together for me instead of haveing to link several sources. Lesser evil right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

I made sure the picture showed the ABU, not the DCUs, so there could be no question if they are AF or not. It's so hard to find a good picture of the ABUs, most of the pictures on the internet are so far away you can't tell if they are ABUs or ACUs.

I only took an interest in this because my father served two tours on the ground in Desert Storm/Shield and two years as a ground troop in South Korea as part of our remaining deterrence force. You might have guessed it, but he was in the AF.

Spoiler: Airmen in Iraq

OT- I'm still gonna go with it would help our society in the US to force one tour, BUT that would also destroy what we are fighting for. The right to be free.

 

[Shock and Awe]

I don't support compulsory military service, but compulsory civil service I do support. Some sort of public service to the country under the employment of the federal or maybe even state government. Military service would be one way to do it but far from the only one.