Poll: DOA jiggle physics discussion, should it exist?

[itaywex]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

I believe in the right game makers (and other artists) has to make whatever game or piece of work they want regardless of its content (like violent games, eroge and games that deals with "hard" subjects like the holocaust) because I believe the developers (/artists) have the right to create any piece of work they want without other people interfering or preventing them from doing so.

The problem is that some members of society might dislike the way the game treats the subject (like racism and sexism), but if we prevent some games from being made where is the line since if one type of games can be banned than other types might get the same treatment (if you ban DOA for sexism other might do the same to Mortal Combat or Left 4 dead* for excessive violence) and the medium as a whole will get damaged since works that offends a certain part of society wont be published.

On the other hand if we allow every kind of game to be made** than people (and more importantly young ones) will get exposed to lots of content*** that doesn't fit them, (like games that feature racism and sexism of any kind [also including Japanese rape games which we should import to the west if we support the right of any game to be made]).

Frankly, I have no idea what is right here which is why I wanted to know for your opinion.


* I couldn't really think of an awesome game that deals with "hard" subjects so swap L4D with your favorite offensive but awesome game (idk maybe dead space or soul calibur).
** When I say made I mean made and imported to your country (so that means people of Australia will be able to buy the original versions of games that might be censored, also including Japanese games and visual novels).
*** I'm sorry for my bad English (I'm not a native English speaker).

(Also sorry for making such a long post).

 

[itaywex]

Okay the poll didn't work so well:

2. No (some system should be made to prevent certin games from being made, we don't care about the slipper slope argument/ think it won't happen).
3. I don't have a good answer/solution..
5. I have a different solution that I'll describe in my clever post .

 

[targren]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

 

[ediblemitten]

Don't like jiggle physics? Cool. Don't buy the game. Why is this even an issue? No one's forcing you to buy/play/watch any video game of any kind.

Also, as an aside:

1.) Just as the majority of female characters in fighting games are unrealistically proportioned, so are men. Look at the roster of Street Fighter, MK, Tekken, or KoF, and you'll see every male fighter with enormous arms, rippling abs, protruding pecs and legs like tree trunks. Hell, even F-Zero has this.

2.) Don't ***** about chicks jiggling their goods while games that allow you to viciously slaughter thousands of people exist. This is just 'flavour of the month' bullshit as per usual.

 

[Rumpsteak]

No matter how offensive a game may be I will defend It's right to exist.

*Simplified for impact

 

[Fappy]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

Too many smart comments in this thread already. My services are apparently not required.

Seriously though, I hate how games get all the flak when movies do the same thing.

 

[Hagi]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

The impression I'm getting that the problem is more that whilst in movies such things are a niche in video games it's not really a niche.

A lot of games either don't have women in them or they have women that, whilst not quite as bad as DoA, still are clearly made primarily for sex appeal.

Though this, in my opinion, ties into the bigger issue that video games are simply lacking in variety. Currently it just seems that games are becoming more and more alike in an effort to become mainstream and one of the problems of what currently seems mainstream is that there's little presence of female characters beyond the sex appeal, out of many other problems that are there.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

The impression I'm getting that the problem is more that whilst in movies such things are a niche in video games it's not really a niche.

A lot of games either don't have women in them or they have women that, whilst not quite as bad as DoA, still are clearly made primarily for sex appeal.

Though this, in my opinion, ties into the bigger issue that video games are simply lacking in variety. Currently it just seems that games are becoming more and more alike in an effort to become mainstream and one of the problems of what currently seems mainstream is that there's little presence of female characters beyond the sex appeal, out of many other problems that are there.

Are you serious? DOA is the only non-porn series I know of that sells primarily on sex appeal. The only one I can think of where it's a major secondary selling point is Tomb Raider. Yes, women have idealized bodies in videogames. So do men. So do both men and women in hollywood films. I mean, when was the last time you saw an ugly film star? Even in the kind of "serious" film that is about as sexy as watching paint dry, all of the actors are photogenic. Most major movies are just as sexed up as videogames.

 

[Hagi]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

The impression I'm getting that the problem is more that whilst in movies such things are a niche in video games it's not really a niche.

A lot of games either don't have women in them or they have women that, whilst not quite as bad as DoA, still are clearly made primarily for sex appeal.

Though this, in my opinion, ties into the bigger issue that video games are simply lacking in variety. Currently it just seems that games are becoming more and more alike in an effort to become mainstream and one of the problems of what currently seems mainstream is that there's little presence of female characters beyond the sex appeal, out of many other problems that are there.

Are you serious? DOA is the only non-porn series I know of that sells primarily on sex appeal. The only one I can think of where it's a major secondary selling point is Tomb Raider. Yes, women have idealized bodies in videogames. So do men. So do both men and women in hollywood films. I mean, when was the last time you saw an ugly film star? Even in the kind of "serious" film that is about as sexy as watching paint dry, all of the actors are photogenic. Most major movies are just as sexed up as videogames.

Right... just two games.

Totally explains why this is a meme when it comes to video games.

That goes quite a bit further than just an idealized body. Which, in itself, is perfectly fine. It's just less cool when there's so many games in which it's either women dressed like that or no women at all.

There's nothing about an idealized body that says you have to be half-naked all the time.

Not to mention that there's plenty of actors and actresses that do not have such bodies. Even if they're a minority they aren't that hard to come across.

I'm not saying we should in any way ban games that don't have women or have women who wear little more than a few straps of armour held tenuously together by wishful thinking. But I do believe we could definitely use a lot more variety. And not just the women, but the men as well.

Again, the problem isn't some evil conspiracy against women. It's simply that there's just too little variety in current AAA titles and just because that impacts everybody doesn't make the way it impacts women okay.

 

[DracoSuave]

Main selling point of series.

Can't be surprised or even bat an eye at it.

I mean even Tifa's CG in FF7 had jiggle physics. I'm more concerned about that game having it to be honest.

 

[JeffBergGold]

I think the jiggle physics are just dumb. DOA is a terrible fighter too. I voted No because it adds nothing to the gaming experience.

 

[Ryotknife]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

The impression I'm getting that the problem is more that whilst in movies such things are a niche in video games it's not really a niche.

A lot of games either don't have women in them or they have women that, whilst not quite as bad as DoA, still are clearly made primarily for sex appeal.

Though this, in my opinion, ties into the bigger issue that video games are simply lacking in variety. Currently it just seems that games are becoming more and more alike in an effort to become mainstream and one of the problems of what currently seems mainstream is that there's little presence of female characters beyond the sex appeal, out of many other problems that are there.

Are you serious? DOA is the only non-porn series I know of that sells primarily on sex appeal. The only one I can think of where it's a major secondary selling point is Tomb Raider. Yes, women have idealized bodies in videogames. So do men. So do both men and women in hollywood films. I mean, when was the last time you saw an ugly film star? Even in the kind of "serious" film that is about as sexy as watching paint dry, all of the actors are photogenic. Most major movies are just as sexed up as videogames.

Right... just two games.

Totally explains why this is a meme when it comes to video games.

That goes quite a bit further than just an idealized body. Which, in itself, is perfectly fine. It's just less cool when there's so many games in which it's either women dressed like that or no women at all.

There's nothing about an idealized body that says you have to be half-naked all the time.

Not to mention that there's plenty of actors and actresses that do not have such bodies. Even if they're a minority they aren't that hard to come across.

I'm not saying we should in any way ban games that don't have women or have women who wear little more than a few straps of armour held tenuously together by wishful thinking. But I do believe we could definitely use a lot more variety. And not just the women, but the men as well.

Again, the problem isn't some evil conspiracy against women. It's simply that there's just too little variety in current AAA titles and just because that impacts everybody doesn't make the way it impacts women okay.

To be fair, from what i hear the male version of that race wears even less and is just as sexualized. Cant really use it as an example when both genders in that race are basically whores.

Women as purely sex objects in games are not the norm.....anymore at least. Hell i would argue that there is more great straight female characters than there are straight male characters in the past...2 years.

There are still a few games whose appeal heavily invests in sex (DOA, ninja gaiden, whatever that mud wrestling game was like 8 years ago), as long as it is just a niche and not the norm, whatever.

 

[Mr F.]

Yes. It has the right to exist. It should exist.

Hmmm, I feel I should qualify that statement, what with having two elder sisters, one of which is a radical feminist.

You may, with your current cultural norms and whatnot, think that it is offensive. You may believe that it demeans women. Both of these things are true. However, does everyone who plays the game agree with you? Do all the women who play the game agree with you?

I, Personally, Find it fucking ridiculous. I would not play DOA though, what with me hating all fighter's and just ignoring that entire section of gaming. Bar... I cannot remember what game it is, it has an awesome art style and one of the bosses kills you with a guitar solo. I think its called Guilty Gear? Bleh.

I would not play the game. I generally avoid playing games that try to sell sexuality. I usually find that it is being pushed down my throat (And trying to make me think about pushing other things down throats) to distract me from a game which is, by and large, shit.

However, just because I do not like something, I find something to be sexist and I would not play a certain game because of it does not mean that it should not be produced, that I will not defend its right to be produced and that I think it has a place within the gaming industry.

Leave the Japanese and those weird twitchy folks who like fighters to their giggle physics and their scantily clad women. Who cares. Nobody is getting hurt. No sensible laws are getting broken.

I guess the main reason I am ok with it all is because it helps me work out what games I shouldn't buy.

 

[Swyftstar]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

The impression I'm getting that the problem is more that whilst in movies such things are a niche in video games it's not really a niche.

A lot of games either don't have women in them or they have women that, whilst not quite as bad as DoA, still are clearly made primarily for sex appeal.

Though this, in my opinion, ties into the bigger issue that video games are simply lacking in variety. Currently it just seems that games are becoming more and more alike in an effort to become mainstream and one of the problems of what currently seems mainstream is that there's little presence of female characters beyond the sex appeal, out of many other problems that are there.

Are you serious? DOA is the only non-porn series I know of that sells primarily on sex appeal. The only one I can think of where it's a major secondary selling point is Tomb Raider. Yes, women have idealized bodies in videogames. So do men. So do both men and women in hollywood films. I mean, when was the last time you saw an ugly film star? Even in the kind of "serious" film that is about as sexy as watching paint dry, all of the actors are photogenic. Most major movies are just as sexed up as videogames.

Right... just two games.

Totally explains why this is a meme when it comes to video games.

That goes quite a bit further than just an idealized body. Which, in itself, is perfectly fine. It's just less cool when there's so many games in which it's either women dressed like that or no women at all.

There's nothing about an idealized body that says you have to be half-naked all the time.

Not to mention that there's plenty of actors and actresses that do not have such bodies. Even if they're a minority they aren't that hard to come across.

I'm not saying we should in any way ban games that don't have women or have women who wear little more than a few straps of armour held tenuously together by wishful thinking. But I do believe we could definitely use a lot more variety. And not just the women, but the men as well.

Again, the problem isn't some evil conspiracy against women. It's simply that there's just too little variety in current AAA titles and just because that impacts everybody doesn't make the way it impacts women okay.

That may be a meme associated with games but the idea of skimpy female armor in no way originated or is limited to videogames. If anything, games have emulated the standard set forth in fantasy novels and movies. That meme could have been made decades ago about various forms of media.

Yes, I think games need to improve jiggle physics. They aren't silly enough for me just yet.

Indeed. I won't be satisfied until they are giving themselves black eyes whenever they backflip.

 

[Zer_]

Lets start the discussion from a view point that its sexist to make female characters in a way that appeals mainly to men.

AAAAnnnd /thread.

Seriously, unless you're trying to set up some kind of echo chamber to attract people to affirm your own opinions, or you're looking to get your badge for creating a huge flamewar thread, starting immediately with a subjective premise like that is not going to anything good for your hopeful 'discussion.'

This. Besides, DOA is basically softcore porn. It's the video game equivalent of the old tits and blood slasher movies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a game series or two that fills that niche. It's amazing the things that are perfectly acceptable in film, but are suddenly "moving the medium backwards" when it comes to videogames.

And to say that it objectifies women in some way is just about as legitimate as saying violent video games cause violence. Do I think there should be more games that have female characters that aren't just nice to look at? Of course I do, but there's nothing wrong with the idea of sexualized characters, whether they be male or female.

 

[Hagi]

To be fair, from what i hear the male version of that race wears even less and is just as sexualized. Cant really use it as an example when both genders in that race are basically whores.

Women as purely sex objects in games are not the norm.....anymore at least. Hell i would argue that there is more great straight female characters than there are straight male characters in the past...2 years.

There are still a few games whose appeal heavily invests in sex (DOA, ninja gaiden, whatever that mud wrestling game was like 8 years ago), as long as it is just a niche and not the norm, whatever.

Again, what happens to males is quite frankly irrelevant as to whether or not what happens to women is good or not. Having a score of shallow female characters does not suddenly become admirable when accompanied by a score of shallow male characters.

I'm not saying that having shallow and unrealistic characters is something that happens uniquely to women. That being the case however does not make it good that those type of characters are, in my opinion, too prevalent in gaming. See, for example, Jim's video on the FPS sausage-fest.

I'm not trying to make the point that this is somehow bad or evil. There's nothing wrong with shallow characters. There's however nothing right about them either. They're exactly that, shallow, uninspiring and "meh".

And I think that, currently, there's still too much "meh" in gaming. I'd personally like to see a bit more inspiring and deep things, female characters being one of those things.

 

[Hagi]

That may be a meme associated with games but the idea of skimpy female armor in no way originated or is limited to videogames. If anything, games have emulated the standard set forth in fantasy novels and movies. That meme could have been made decades ago about various forms of media.

And that makes it okay?

If another form of media does it then we're totally exempt from any form of criticism?

 

[CLmichaels]

Yes, I think games need to improve jiggle physics. They aren't silly enough for me just yet.

They will only be acceptable when there are boob marks on all the ceilings.