Poll: Does 0.999.. equal 1 ?

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pliusmannn

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Dec 4, 2008
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No, and yes, there is few mathematical views, in physics if small difference matters then you need not to equalise even the smallest of differences and write those, if differences that small doesn't change the result then yes it's =1, in logical way 1 is a whole and 0.(9) is not whole it lacks, correct answer lim(x)= x->1
 

Sikachu

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Apr 20, 2010
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RhythmStick said:
.9 reccuring doesn't even exist, because decimals are fake numbers that represent fractions, and .9_reccuring can't be made with fractions
Yes it can. 1/1.
 

TiefBlau

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Apr 16, 2009
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RhythmStick said:
.9 reccuring doesn't even exist, because decimals are fake numbers that represent fractions, and .9_reccuring can't be made with fractions
Incorrect.

Decimals don't represent fractions; they represent bases of ten. Each digit place is a base of ten, and it's no different when it's behind or in front of a point. Just as 1000 is 10^3, so too is 1 a representation of 10^0, and 0.001 a representation of 10^(-3).

So yes, 0.9 repeated does exist, and it's represented in fraction/whole number form as 1, 3/3, 4/4, 923/923, or whatever you'd like.
 

Bobbity

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Mar 17, 2010
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Essentially, because there's an infinitely recurring number involved, then yes.

Besides which, my calculator says so.
 

USSR

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Oct 4, 2008
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I'm sorry, but go ask a mathematician.

Damn near everyone on here is an asshole/claims to be a(n) mathematician/an all knowing god.

Please have a mod close this thread. It's only brought flaming, and little discussion.
The most it brings out is "NO, I'M RIGHT!"
 

MrGalactus

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Sep 18, 2010
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Mathematically, no, but who cares enough to be that pedantic about it? It's close enough. 1 it is.
 

VulakAerr

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Mar 31, 2010
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Drakulea said:
*snip*
In actual applications would you care that 0.0000....001 is not zero ? Most of the time,no. But it depends on the scale of magnitude of applications.

It all comes down to approximations and how they are relevant to a context.
No, it doesn't. It has NOTHING to do with the scale of magnitude. If you are working at the scale of sub-atomic particles, 0.(0)1 is still 0. I mean, fuck it, it could be 0.(0)675 it would still be 0. Because that (0) is an infinite number of zeros means that any number that follows it is irrelevant. 0.99 recurring doesn't mean "a whole lot of nines", it means "nines to infinite", just as "0.00 recurring 1" doesn't mean "quite a few zeros and then a one", it means "an infinite number of zeros". There is literally zero meaning to that number that comes after the zeros. It is not an approximation. It is zero.
 

Rafael Dera

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Aug 24, 2010
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As has been said ad nauseam:
1/3= 0.333...
0.333...*3=0.999...
and 1/3*3=3/3=1.
Therefore, 0.999... = 1.
people who say it's infinitesimally smaller are wrong. Why are they wrong? See above.
No maths exprert, and there are probably more rigorous/elegant proofs but this gets the point across imho.
 

Kinguendo

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Apr 10, 2009
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Yes, some people have trouble understanding this so I explain it like this...

0.999(r) has no knowable end so think of it as taking a piece of pie away each time and every 9 represents another piece taken, eventually you will have eaten every single piece of that pie no matter how small thus you have eaten 1 whole pie.
 

Level 7 Dragon

Typo Kign
Mar 29, 2011
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mattsipple4000 said:
1/3 = 0.333...
0.333...*3= 0.999...

on a different calculator

1/3 = 0.333...
0.333...*3= 1

Mathematics is flawed
WRONG!

0.3333....=0.3+0.03+0.003+...=

=3(0.1+0.01+0.001+...)=

=3(1:10 [b1] + 1:100 [b2] + 1:1000 [b3]...)=

3x([b1]:1-q)= 3x (1:10) : (1-10)=

=3x 1:10 x 10:9= 1:3

1:3 is not equal to 0.3333.. like we used to, for real we just adapt to make math easier.

:3
 

Torrasque

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Aug 6, 2010
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No, they are not the same.
Yes, math is flawed.
You can see this especially in fractions.

disclaimer: fractions are a poor representation of non-fractions
1/2 = 0.5
1/4 = 0.25
1/3 = 0.333...
2/3 = 0/666...

The simple fact that it repeats forever and ever, means one thing: that it repeats forever.
Just like Pi does not exactly equal 3.14, it equals 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459... and then mathematicians throw their hands up in the air, and say it equals 3.14 for the sake of sanity.

To put this into perspective, lets say you live on Earth, and I live 3 light years away.
That is an extremely long ways away, and only an idiot would say that I am touching you.
One day, I decide to teleport back to Earth to visit you, and teleport within 1 centimeter of you.
Compared to the ridiculous distance that separated us before, I am practically touching you. But I am not.
I move to within 1 nanometre of you, just because I am creepy that way, but do not touch you.

Think of 0.999... as that. The difference between 0.999... and 1 is so insignificantly small that depending on the case, you'd just ignore it. But there is still a difference between touching you, and not touching you, whether that is 3 light years, or 1 nanometre.
 

RhythmStick

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Oct 27, 2010
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what's 1/9 as a decimal?
what's 9/9 as a decimal?
what's 1/9 * 9 as a decimal?
.(9) equals 1 because it doesn't even exist
 

mattsipple4000

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Mar 2, 2011
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Kinguendo said:
Yes, some people have trouble understanding this so I explain it like this...

0.999(r) has no knowable end so think of it as taking a piece of pie away each time and every 9 represents another piece taken, eventually you will have eaten every single piece of that pie no matter how small thus you have eaten 1 whole pie.
when will eventually come ??? do you have a reoccurring pie?
 

mattsipple4000

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Mar 2, 2011
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Torrasque said:
No, they are not the same.
Yes, math is flawed.
You can see this especially in fractions.

disclaimer: fractions are a poor representation of non-fractions
1/2 = 0.5
1/4 = 0.25
1/3 = 0.333...
2/3 = 0/666...

The simple fact that it repeats forever and ever, means one thing: that it repeats forever.
Just like Pi does not exactly equal 3.14, it equals 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459... and then mathematicians throw their hands up in the air, and say it equals 3.14 for the sake of sanity.

To put this into perspective, lets say you live on Earth, and I live 3 light years away.
That is an extremely long ways away, and only an idiot would say that I am touching you.
One day, I decide to teleport back to Earth to visit you, and teleport within 1 centimeter of you.
Compared to the ridiculous distance that separated us before, I am practically touching you. But I am not.
I move to within 1 nanometre of you, just because I am creepy that way, but do not touch you.

Think of 0.999... as that. The difference between 0.999... and 1 is so insignificantly small that depending on the case, you'd just ignore it. But there is still a difference between touching you, and not touching you, whether that is 3 light years, or 1 nanometre.
I like you :D !! and have been trying so hard to explain this ! thank you
 

tris4992

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Jul 12, 2010
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from a objective point of vieuw 0.999... /= 1 in the same way 2/=1
They are two different numbers. The only way they can be equal is if you take rounding into account as 0,999... will always get rounded up to 1 in that case.
 

Boris Goodenough

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Jul 15, 2009
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Drakulea said:
It's more like Lim(f(x))=1 for x->k, and we're trying to decide if that means f(k)=1.

Doesn't make a difference though, because there's no real infinitesimal number in our system, and so it must be true.
Although mathematically sound, I think the point I am trying to make is that if it keeps going towards 1 the limit will be 1. Which is a bit easier on the untrained mind than your setup.

This discussion always reminds me of
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/generic/60f5/?i=front
 

JackEmpty

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Apr 6, 2011
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This should not be a poll. This is not an opinion question. The answer is fact. It IS equal, there is no doubt. There is no disproof. Anywhere.

I'll refer you here for a whole barrage of wonderful proofs, and quote a bit of it: http://qntm.org/pointnine

Common counter-arguments and my responses
"0.9999... and 1 are obviously different numbers."
In mathematics, "obvious" means "a proof immediately springs to mind". If you don't have a proof in mind, then unfortunately no mathematical statement you make carries any weight.

"1 and 0.9999... are written differently, therefore they are different numbers."
There are many ways of writing any number. You could write 1/1, or 3-2, or 1.0, or 1.00, or 1.0000... or any number of other expressions, and all of them ultimately have the same meaning, "one".

"0.9999... is a concept, not a number."
All numbers are concepts.

"0.9999... can't exist in reality, but 1 can, therefore they are different."
Firstly, just because a number can't exist in reality doesn't mean it can't exist in mathematics.

Secondly, because 1 can exist in reality and 1 = 0.9999..., that means that 0.9999... can also exist in reality.

"There is a rounding error. 0.9999... and 1 are approximately equal."
Rounding errors only occur when we truncate a decimal expansion after a finite number of digits. All of the proofs above use the "..." notation at every step, which means that we always take into account all of the infinitely many decimal digits. There is no rounding, which means there is no error.

"0.9999... gets closer and closer to 1, but never reaches it."
0.9999... is a single number. It doesn't move, so it can't get closer and closer to anything. It is where it is.

"0.9999... is a decimal representation of infinity, not a number."
0.9999... is definitely less than 2, so it can't be infinitely large.

"Humans can't comprehend infinity, and not being able to comprehend infinity means you can't do mathematics with it."
Firstly, humans can comprehend infinity. Mathematicians do it all the time. It may impossible to literally "conceive of" infinite values, whatever that means, but that doesn't stop mathematicians from dealing with them without going nuts.

Secondly, infinity obeys rules. If something obeys rules in a consistent fashion, then you can do mathematics with it. Ordinal arithmetic is a good example.

In case the connection isn't clear, what is true of infinite values is equally true of infinite decimal expansions. There are rules and procedures and they work and give meaningful results. See "The Real Proof" above for a relatively tame glimpse of this, which is actually a vast region of mathematics known as "analysis", naturally based on rock-solid fundamental axioms.

"My mate/my dad/my mathematics teacher/Professor Stephen Hawking told me that 0.9999... and 1 were different numbers."
They were wrong.

"But they proved it, too!"
The proof was fallacious. Send it to me and I'll show you why.

"I still don't believe it and I'm entitled to my own opinion."
In regular science, we have theories. A theory is proposed in order to explain observations, and can be overturned in light of new, inexplicable observations. Multiple theories and opinions may compete with one another. There are fashions. There is room for debate.

In mathematics, we have theorems instead of theories. A theorem is the result of a mathematical proof. A theorem is a fact. A theorem cannot be overturned and is not a matter of opinion. Once proven, a theorem stands for eternity. Mathematics is not ideological.

Thanks to the many proofs above, "point nine recurring equals one" is just such a theorem. So, your opinion is wrong. And sorry, but no: you're not entitled to be wrong in mathematics. That's not how it works.
 

Torrasque

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Aug 6, 2010
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Worst. Mathematical. Problem. Ever.

The Agnosticism of Maths.

It's equivalent but not equal.
Also, this.
Tried to post earlier, but it seems Escapist accidentally forgot to pay the bill? /shrug

Edit:
Also, this is the reason significant digits was invented.
To preserve sanity.
 

TiefBlau

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Apr 16, 2009
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Torrasque said:
No, they are not the same.
Yes, math is flawed.
You can see this especially in fractions.

disclaimer: fractions are a poor representation of non-fractions
1/2 = 0.5
1/4 = 0.25
1/3 = 0.333...
2/3 = 0/666...

The simple fact that it repeats forever and ever, means one thing: that it repeats forever.
Here's a fun fact: If you add up 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + ..... it would equal 1.

Infinity has a funny way of making numbers approach stuff sometimes. And sometimes the difference between the numbers and the stuff it approaches gets really, really small. So small, so infinitely small, in fact, that mathematicians give this gap a name: zero.
Torrasque said:
Just like Pi does not exactly equal 3.14, it equals 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459...
As it turns out, Pi is irrational, so it can't really be represented by either fractions or non-fractions.
Torrasque said:
and then mathematicians throw their hands up in the air,
Saying aaaaayoooh, gotta leeeet go.
Torrasque said:
and say it equals 3.14 for the sake of sanity.
Aw.

Still wrong, though.
Torrasque said:
To put this into perspective, lets say you live on Earth, and I live 3 light years away.
That is an extremely long ways away, and only an idiot would say that I am touching you.
One day, I decide to teleport back to Earth to visit you, and teleport within 1 centimeter of you.
Compared to the ridiculous distance that separated us before, I am practically touching you. But I am not.
I move to within 1 nanometre of you, just because I am creepy that way, but do not touch you.

Think of 0.999... as that. The difference between 0.999... and 1 is so insignificantly small that depending on the case, you'd just ignore it. But there is still a difference between touching you, and not touching you, whether that is 3 light years, or 1 nanometre.
And what if the distance between us were infinitely small? That's not small; that's not even existent. It's zero.