Poll: Does Dear Esther Count as a Game?

[ajemas]

I just picked up Dear Esther from the Steam store. For those who don't know, it orginally started as a mod on the Source engine, but is now it's own full-fledged release. The only buttons that you need during the game are the arrow keys and the mouse. I don't think that you even need to click except to start up the game. There is no real action or gameplay other than simply walking and looking around. You don't even have the option to run! You are led along a path in an absolutely stunning and beautiful environment. The area you are supposed to go is indicated subtly, encouraging exploration. The story comes through a cryptic narration, which starts as soon as you pass certain invisible dialouge triggers.

Even though I absolutely love it so far, I am not sure whether it qualifies as a game? Imagine that you are watching a new movie, and the movie only plays as long as you are pushing a red button. If you let go of the red button, the movie stops. Would that movie count as a game? I don't think so. The biggest difference between that and Dear Esther is the fact that the player is in control of where the character moves and looks, but it could have easily been turned into a movie. I am honestly not sure what the answer is, or if there even is an answer. I was hoping that the Escapist community could give me some of its patented insight.

TLDR, does Dear Esther qualify as a game or not and why?

 

[ChupathingyX]

Well, according to dictionary.com the definitions of a "video game" are...

video game
 
noun
1.
any of various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.

2.
any of various games played using a microchip-controlled device, as an arcade machine or hand-held toy.

World English Dictionary



video game





any of various games that can be played by using an electronic control to move points of light or graphical symbols on the screen of a visual display unit

Encyclopedia

video game

any interactive game operated by computer circuitry. The machines, or "platforms," on which electronic games are played include general-purpose shared and personal computers, arcade consoles, video consoles connected to home television sets, and handheld game machines. The term video game can be used to represent the totality of these formats, or it can refer more specifically only to games played on devices with video displays: television and arcade consoles

As far as I'm concerned Dear Esther does fit those definitions, as do visual novels.

 

[him over there]

Well, according to dictionary.com the definitions of a "video game" are...

video game
 
noun
1.
any of various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.

2.
any of various games played using a microchip-controlled device, as an arcade machine or hand-held toy.

World English Dictionary



video game





any of various games that can be played by using an electronic control to move points of light or graphical symbols on the screen of a visual display unit

Encyclopedia

video game

any interactive game operated by computer circuitry. The machines, or "platforms," on which electronic games are played include general-purpose shared and personal computers, arcade consoles, video consoles connected to home television sets, and handheld game machines. The term video game can be used to represent the totality of these formats, or it can refer more specifically only to games played on devices with video displays: television and arcade consoles

As far as I'm concerned Dear Esther does fit those definitions, as do visual novels.

Does it fit game in general though? does it have win/lose conditions? Challenges etc. All those definitions you posted work under the assumption that they are games that are controlled with controllers, are software or played on something with a video display. Of course those are null and void if it doesn't count as a game to begin with. Visual novels are just pick your own adventure books with some nice pictures and music. Dear Esther is just an interactive experience. A sight seeing tour of a place that was created digitally, not a real place but incredible to explore none the less. It's sweet as hell in my opinion yes, but not a game.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Does it fit game in general though? does it have win/lose conditions? Challenges etc.

Well that depends on what the definition of a "game" is.

You said it has to have "challenge", but there is nothing challenging about board games that rely on luck alone now is there? I don't know about Dear Esther but visual novels feature win/lose situations and there can be a hint of challenge when it comes to picking paths.

Dear Esther is just an interactive experience.

So is falling down the stairs and eating dinner.

If it isn't a movie, it's not a book or a song or anything of the sort then the safest area I would place it would be video games.

 

[him over there]

Does it fit game in general though? does it have win/lose conditions? Challenges etc.

Well that depends on what the definition of a "game" is.

You said it has to have "challenge", but there is nothing challenging about board games that rely on luck alone now is there? I don't know about Dear Esther but visual novels feature win/lose situations and there can be a hint of challenge when it comes to picking paths.

Dear Esther is just an interactive experience.

So is falling down the stairs and eating dinner.

If it isn't a movie, it's not a book or a song or anything of the sort then the safest area I would place it would be video games.

Well I agree that the closest thing to it is a videogame, but an unconventional one that defies what a game is still. About visual novels, a good ending and a bad ending isn't the same as winning and losing. They are merely two different endings to a story, one isn't wrong or right, they're the consequent string of events that the reader chooses. Plus there isn't a challenge in picking paths, you can do any one you like, sure you might not know where it takes you but you are just reading what is essentially an unconventionally written story.

I think the best way to put it is that only multiplayer games are really games. Single player campaigns are just deviations of that meant to blend storytelling and token win lose conditions and challenges together. Things like visual novels and Dear Esther are just further development of this idea. No longer a game as much as it is an experience that you interact or make choices in.

 

[ChupathingyX]

I think the best way to put it is that only multiplayer games are really games. Single player campaigns are just deviations of that meant to blend storytelling and token win lose conditions and challenges together. Things like visual novels and Dear Esther are just further development of this idea.

This discussion seems to have derailed into the definition of video games in general, but that's okay.

I kinda get what you're saying about single and multiplayer games but even though you aren't fighting against squishy humans you are against something, you can lose and there is challenge.

No longer a game as much as it is an experience that you interact or make choices in.

Then what are they?

"Interactive experience" is not a medium or a genre.

I think for convenience sake we should just consider Dear Esther a video game, hell, we still haven't even come up with a damn definition of RPGs...

 

[LilithSlave]

This reminds me of how one time on another forum someone told me it was "embarrassing" that I even tried a "game" because "it isn't even a game".

That's right, games aren't a luxury, they're a duty! And you can't play the wrong ones or it's an embarrassment! And by that it means they have to be explicitly games and they can't resemble anything else! How dare somebody use technology for something other than something clearly a "game"!

Sorry, had to vent. Either way, it's close enough. Perhaps the term video "game" is flawed to describe our media, anyway. Kind of like how "comic books" might be flawed to describe them, and graphic novel is better.

 

[Zhukov]

Ohhh, ohh, that's out now?

...

I'll, uh... I'll be back soon.

 

[ajemas]

Does it fit game in general though? does it have win/lose conditions? Challenges etc.

Well that depends on what the definition of a "game" is.

You said it has to have "challenge", but there is nothing challenging about board games that rely on luck alone now is there? I don't know about Dear Esther but visual novels feature win/lose situations and there can be a hint of challenge when it comes to picking paths.

Dear Esther is just an interactive experience.

So is falling down the stairs and eating dinner.

If it isn't a movie, it's not a book or a song or anything of the sort then the safest area I would place it would be video games.

Perhaps it belongs in a completely different category? I mean, since it struggles to fit into the purview of either form of media.

 

[ajemas]

This reminds me of how one time on another forum someone told me it was "embarrassing" that I even tried a "game" because "it isn't even a game".

That's right, games aren't a luxury, they're a duty! And you can't play the wrong ones or it's an embarrassment! And by that it means they have to be explicitly games and they can't resemble anything else! How dare somebody use technology for something other than something clearly a "game"!

Sorry, had to vent. Either way, it's close enough. Perhaps the term video "game" is flawed to describe our media, anyway. Kind of like how "comic books" might be flawed to describe them, and graphic novel is better.

First of all, I certainly wasn't trying to say that it made it any less of a work of art than any other game. I'm very sorry if it came across that way, as I don't like to offend anybody. As a matter of fact, I absolutely love Dear Esther!

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Ohhh, ohh, that's out now?

...

I'll, uh... I'll be back soon.

See you in an hour and ten minutes!

I wouldn't call it a game. The challenges you have to overcome are outside of the experience, in this case, figuring out the tale. Dear Esther makes you think about who is who, and just what the truth of the narrative is. None of this can be done in the game, but in your own head. The game is the script from which you glean information. The visuals and music are only there to put the atmosphere and setting into perspective.

 

[Bobic]

Having not played it my opinion is obviously slightly nullified but what you described I would perhaps name an interactive movie.

It's like a screened version of those plays you get that take place in a weird building with different scenes happening in different rooms at different times and you're left to wander around freely, stumbling across whatever scenes you happen to find. Dear Esther sounds like it would be much more coherent however.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

Dear Esther is a game.

Just accept it.

It's awesome and worth a look.

I call /thread, anyone else agree?

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I played the mod and didn't think much of it. Would I be more impressed with its new stand alone release?

 

[The Madman]

Sure, why not? The only difference between it and an fps is that you're not forced to hold down the left mouse button and watch blood splatter the screen.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I played the mod and didn't think much of it. Would I be more impressed with its new stand alone release?

There seem to be a few more lines added to the new version, and the visuals are much much improved.

 

[Savagezion]

By everything you described, it is a game.

Player actions influence it through the triggers and exploration as you describe. There is a goal the player must work towards as well. A game's status as a game isn't measured on how boring you find it personally.

 

[LookingGlass]

I watched the trailer on their website. Whatever it is, it's god damn beautiful.

I'll get to it eventually. Probably when it gets its first taste of a Steam sale.

 

[RastaBadger]

I played it back when it was a mod. I wouldn't say it was a game exactly but it wouldn't work in any other medium.

 

[redisforever]

I wouldn't say game really, it's more of an interactive story, a virtual world for you to explore. That's what I think, not actually having played the game yet.