Poll: Does free-will exist?
- Thread starter Sewblon
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Our brain is processing more than trillions of possibilities every tenth of a second, but because our conscious selves can only comprehend so many we make a choice based off the ones our brains find would work best, and in fact, each of those decisions your brain processes is it creating an alternate reality.
Now, free will is our will to choose something. It has nothing to do with things pre-happening. lets say something may be bound to happen, but our minds will set out a choice on -HOW- it happens. Hence why prophecy never mentions exactly how said person would accomplish something, or how it would happen, only that it would happen.
As such, the arguement becomes do we have technical free will, or literal free will, and the debate on whether we have it ends.
In that case, yes to both. We have literal free-will sub-consciously, and if we were ever able to comprehend it to its full extent, we would have conscious free-will.
On the other hand, we have "technical" free will consciously in which we choose from viable options that seem to work the best. If you are looking at a pie, and deciding whether to eat it or not, your mind wouldn't have the ability to consciously comprehend much beyond eating, or not eating it, but would sub-consciously have multiple thoughts such as maybe building a blaster gun, or jumping out the nearby window while stabbing yourself with a butter knife 7 times. The possibilities are endless.
Now, free will is our will to choose something. It has nothing to do with things pre-happening. lets say something may be bound to happen, but our minds will set out a choice on -HOW- it happens. Hence why prophecy never mentions exactly how said person would accomplish something, or how it would happen, only that it would happen.
As such, the arguement becomes do we have technical free will, or literal free will, and the debate on whether we have it ends.
In that case, yes to both. We have literal free-will sub-consciously, and if we were ever able to comprehend it to its full extent, we would have conscious free-will.
On the other hand, we have "technical" free will consciously in which we choose from viable options that seem to work the best. If you are looking at a pie, and deciding whether to eat it or not, your mind wouldn't have the ability to consciously comprehend much beyond eating, or not eating it, but would sub-consciously have multiple thoughts such as maybe building a blaster gun, or jumping out the nearby window while stabbing yourself with a butter knife 7 times. The possibilities are endless.
Who cares.
Yes. That is my answer.
If we have free will, we have free will, and do the suff we want to.
If we don't have free will, we do the stuff we have to.
There is no difference, it's like eating a piece of candy with your eyes closed, and arguing with yourself about what colour it was. (hail me, king of weird comparisons).
Yes. That is my answer.
If we have free will, we have free will, and do the suff we want to.
If we don't have free will, we do the stuff we have to.
There is no difference, it's like eating a piece of candy with your eyes closed, and arguing with yourself about what colour it was. (hail me, king of weird comparisons).
Who cares.
Yes. That is my answer.
If we have free will, we have free will, and do the suff we want to.
If we don't have free will, we do the stuff we have to.
There is no difference, it's like eating a piece of candy with your eyes closed, and arguing with yourself about what colour it was. (hail me, king of weird comparisons).
Yes. That is my answer.
If we have free will, we have free will, and do the suff we want to.
If we don't have free will, we do the stuff we have to.
There is no difference, it's like eating a piece of candy with your eyes closed, and arguing with yourself about what colour it was. (hail me, king of weird comparisons).
I'm sorry, but I'm way too awesome not to have free will. This may sound entirely egocentric...but consider the connotations. Nobody else made me like me. I made me like me. I feel that there isn't a valid argument against free will. Every time I disagree with such an argument shows that this is true, for agreeing would be a LACK of free will.
What about the argument that our actions are determined by the external forces around us. It doesn't require an almighty toad to dictate your actions, just the universe you happen to be in.Cpt_Oblivious said:
My philosophy textbook would be so much more readable if they described everything in squirrel examples. Thanks, that was amusing (and slightly informative)7moreDead said:
The reason you asked out your girlfriend could potentially be explained with how your brain perceives certain individuals and how you were raised, and what happened to you in your early life etc etc.Brad Shepard said:
Did you choose to do this job day in and day out, or is it simply because of the papers your receive afterwords? (currency)People could argue that you were predetermined to take that job since it offered the green (or other coloured) stuff.
Problem with hard scenarios about free will is that they can be spun to defend the other argument real easy like
Do you not think of the lurkers? They have feelings tooo!godevit said:
His lawyer argued his case better than the prosecutor did, and the jury sided with him, seems pretty simple.Bullfrog1983 said:
Not particularly, one could just be inclined to ask these questions as part of how they were raised and how they're brain works. They could come to the conclusion that freedom of choice exists, this doesn't dispel the fact that they did not have it in the first place (in this scenario).trophykiller said:
Actually it does matter. If we don't have free will then how is jailing or killing individuals who have gone against the law moral? If we have free will then where does sexuality fit in? These are relevant questions to ask my friend.Audun Maatje said:
OT: This is kind of funny since I found myself regularly defending determinism in my philosophy class (nobody wanted to defend determinism so I figured it would be interesting if somebody other than the teacher argued that side
). Anyway the conclusion I came to was that I can't really come to a clear conclusion about whether we have it or not. Determinism and libertarianism have far too many extreme implications for me to consider one the direct truth over the other. However I will still defend the other to people who think its clearly one way due to the many arguments for both sides Fence sitting is funzors.
I always thought that free will (and human consciousness in general) was just an illusion, merely a number of incredibly complex systems of electron transferrals.
So, we are only free in that we 'believe' (remembering that we are non-entities and any "feelings" are just chemical reactions) our decisions are our own, because it is impossible to think about the structure of a thought or its genesis.
So, we are only free in that we 'believe' (remembering that we are non-entities and any "feelings" are just chemical reactions) our decisions are our own, because it is impossible to think about the structure of a thought or its genesis.
I have thought it over, and I think that there is such a thing as free will. The fact that the brain perceives the world irrationally ('irrational' in the sense that it does not stroke with our concepts of rational behaviour, mind you) does not imply that free will is impossible.
Only, and only if the world works in a deterministic way (and I know that many of you historians, economists and sociologists like to think it does), can there be no free will. However, determinism is pretty much bollocks.
Yes, we might not know the consequences of our actions.
Yes, in hindsight we might construct a continuity that seems (pre)determined (which, for the record, is based on a fallacy: It happened, therefore, it had to happen).
Yes, again, the human brain does not work like the Homo Economicus or Kant's rational man.
If, in any decision made, there was a plausible alternative, free will exists.
-Edit-
Just a side-note, which will undoubtedly attract the ire of our Escapees of the more natural sciences... But I'm not convinced by the rather simplistic reduction of everything to synaptic activity and atoms and what have you not. The condition humaine, in a very real way, transcends. It were not just atoms moving about on a tiny insignificant nothing in the vastness of space we now call Austerlitz. It was Napoleon, his armies and it was real in a sense beyond mere physics.
Only, and only if the world works in a deterministic way (and I know that many of you historians, economists and sociologists like to think it does), can there be no free will. However, determinism is pretty much bollocks.
Yes, we might not know the consequences of our actions.
Yes, in hindsight we might construct a continuity that seems (pre)determined (which, for the record, is based on a fallacy: It happened, therefore, it had to happen).
Yes, again, the human brain does not work like the Homo Economicus or Kant's rational man.
If, in any decision made, there was a plausible alternative, free will exists.
-Edit-
Just a side-note, which will undoubtedly attract the ire of our Escapees of the more natural sciences... But I'm not convinced by the rather simplistic reduction of everything to synaptic activity and atoms and what have you not. The condition humaine, in a very real way, transcends. It were not just atoms moving about on a tiny insignificant nothing in the vastness of space we now call Austerlitz. It was Napoleon, his armies and it was real in a sense beyond mere physics.
No poll??? Sure, lure me in here using "poll" in the title....
I'd like to see how many think this way or that, but I'm not too interested in reading four pages of arguing tit for tat like a virtual tennis match. Doesn't matter in the end anyway. What will be will be.
Predetermined.
I'd like to see how many think this way or that, but I'm not too interested in reading four pages of arguing tit for tat like a virtual tennis match. Doesn't matter in the end anyway. What will be will be.
Predetermined.
Actually it does matter. If we don't have free will then how is jailing or killing individuals who have gone against the law moral? If we have free will then where does sexuality fit in? These are relevant questions to ask my friend.
OT: This is kind of funny since I found myself regularly defending determinism in my philosophy class (nobody wanted to defend determinism so I figured it would be interesting if somebody other than the teacher argued that side). Anyway the conclusion I came to was that I can't really come to a clear conclusion about whether we have it or not. Determinism and libertarianism have far too many extreme implications for me to consider one the direct truth over the other. However I will still defend the other to people who think its clearly one way due to the many arguments for both sides Fence sitting is funzors.[/quote]
we would still jail them because whether they have free-will or not it is not practical to have criminals running around.
OT: This is kind of funny since I found myself regularly defending determinism in my philosophy class (nobody wanted to defend determinism so I figured it would be interesting if somebody other than the teacher argued that side
). Anyway the conclusion I came to was that I can't really come to a clear conclusion about whether we have it or not. Determinism and libertarianism have far too many extreme implications for me to consider one the direct truth over the other. However I will still defend the other to people who think its clearly one way due to the many arguments for both sides Fence sitting is funzors.[/quote]we would still jail them because whether they have free-will or not it is not practical to have criminals running around.
Maybe I'm missing somethign here, but I always classified 'Free will' as being able to make your own decisions about things-And I'm pretty sure all of us have that.
Yes, we have free will. I don't care how much pre-destination crap you try to feed me, I know that I choose my destiny and make decisions for myself.
Aha!But touche!You can post-pone these needs,but eventually they force you to go.If I were to give a straight answer(which in my earlier post I couldn't because of my lack of sleep):No-we don't have free will.Yes-we have the impression that we have free will.starwarsgeek said:
That is all.
Future events are inherently impossible to predict with 100% accuracy (as per Chaos Theory [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg%27s_uncertainty_principle])
This also means that future events are not perfectly determined by causality.
Therefore, free will exists.
This also means that future events are not perfectly determined by causality.
Therefore, free will exists.
Hold on now, what of Irom Shirmilla [http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showexclusives.php?subaction=showfull&id=1291812795&archive=&start_from=&ucat=15&var1news=value1news]: a woman who died from starvation as a result of her hunger strike. Surely she was not beholden to her needs. She had ready access to food and yet she chose to die of hunger. There is no greater expression of free will.minemin said:
Now now.I'm not trying to dismiss such situations.I actually had in my family people that went on hunger strikes.I just used some examples that people can relate to.Personally,I find people that have the guts to stand up for their ideals to be heroes.Iron Lightning said:
That is all.