Poll: Does the RPG Maker engine bother you?

[Kotaro]

....This time when I decided to make an RPG I decided to not even bother with all of that and just use an existing engine.

I did not expect so much hate. Every RPG Maker game is filled with hate.

And the strangest thing is that the engine is actually good. You can completely reprogram everything, starting from the combat engine and ending with something like even turning the game into a sideways platformer. Not as if I'd make a platformer in it, but it's possible.
It's also nice to have all that art for free, even if it's just a placeholder it helps you do something when you don't know what to do and the tilesets can be just replaced afterwards.

Anyway, why do you think there is so much hate? Do you condemn people who use existing engines like this?

Why the hell would anyone WANT to make a new engine from scratch when there's already one available that can do exactly what you need it to do?
JRPGs are my favored genre, so I'm all for good games made in RPG Maker. I've even killed some time messing around with it myself, looking for interesting new scripts to play with, seeing how far I can push it. Actually, the main thing keeping me from putting a full game together myself is my lack of ability in making custom graphics.
Back on-topic, I think the reason it's so hated has to do with Sturgeon's Revelation. Because RPG Maker is so easy to work with, any talentless hack can throw something together, resulting in all the decent games (Skyborn, Millennium, Alter AILA) being buried under crapware.

 

[Callate]

It bothers me that it's generally necessary to download the RPG Maker engine seperately, rather than it being built into the released game. I tend to be of the opinion that "game making" software should at least have the option to make games with identities free of the software used to create them, rather than making every game created with them into a kind of self-promotion.

But as far as the "it's too easy to make games with this", well, poppycock. It's fair to complain if games all look the same, or if they're poorly written, or poorly scripted, or full of bugs, or whatever. But just complaining because the creator built the game with a tool like RPG Maker rather than coding from the ground up is silly. It's like complaining that all the games that use Unreal and Havok didn't create their own graphics and physics engines.

 

[Kotaro]

It bothers me that it's generally necessary to download the RPG Maker engine seperately, rather than it being built into the released game. I tend to be of the opinion that "game making" software should at least have the option to make games with identities free of the software used to create them, rather than making every game created with them into a kind of self-promotion.

While that was true up through RPG Maker 2003, from XP onward it depends on the programmer of the game. When compiling an installer, the software gives you a choice of either a much smaller file that requires the player download the RTP separately, or a much larger file that doesn't require any separate downloads.

 

[Callate]

While that was true up through RPG Maker 2003, from XP onward it depends on the programmer of the game. When compiling an installer, the software gives you a choice of either a much smaller file that requires the player download the RTP separately, or a much larger file that doesn't require any separate downloads.

The RPG Maker games I've seen required a separate download. Thank you for the clarification; that's good to know.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

It does bother me very much yes, because the engine is set up for that one very specific FF sprite RPG and if you try to go beyond that mold it takes absurd amounts of workarounds which means people will simply not do it, so we end up with the exact same game slightly modified with dialogue almost every time.

That is not what I would call a good creation tool.

That hasn't *quite* been true since 2003. The default system for XP and VX is really more like Dragon Quest, but you can really make any type of JRPG with it and have it work pretty well without a ton of workarounds.

It's pointless trying to use it for any other genre, though. Platformers and Zelda-likes are possible, sure, but it's both harder to do and more limited than something like Game Maker in that regard. Basically, if you wanna make a 2D JRPG, RPG Maker is great. Anything else? Use a different engine.

 

[lacktheknack]

.flow is one of my all time favorite games.

It's an RPGMaker based horror exploratory adventure game.

RPGMaker games are only as limited as the developer wants them to be.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Dont have a problem with it. If it allows people to make a game they want to make (a lot easier) then I am all for it its not like I have to play their game or even like it.

I have seen a lot of trash produced with it which is expected theres a lot of trash in AAA games production imo but I have played some good ones made from RPG maker as well it definitely is not without merit.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

I freaking LOVE RPGmaker.

The newest one, VX ACE, is absolutely phenomenal, IMO.

Why? Because they give you tons more control over the important stuff like Damage formulas and stuff, which previous versions did not.

As an engine, I think it's phenomenal. And the large amount of scripts available for it if you're unable or unwilling to reprogram the engine for more tools is fantastic. Literally the only problems I have with it is that the mapping for it is a bit wonky, and that you absolutely need a few scripts to make the combat pretty. Like, you can do a LOT of super interesting things with the default combat engine, but it looks pretty damn plain unless you modify it. :s

Also, I laugh in the face of anyone who says "a baby could make a game like that in 5 minutes".

Tell you what, hypothetical person with that opinion, I have a challenge for you. Go get VX Ace, and make a game in 2 weeks. Tell me how easy it was to make a good game in that short amount of time.

Because I did that for a contest last year, (using the highly limited DEMO for RPGmaker) when I was still very unfamiliar with the VXACE engine and holy CRAP was it hard.

But in the end, the game was pretty awesome, especially after I went back with the full version of RPGmaker and updated it with new scripts and content. I haven't gotten any negative comments on it so far, aside from on the very first (demo version) build, and I addressed all the problems the guy mentioned when I updated my game after the contest ended.

I dunno if I'm allowed to put a link to it, so if you wanna play it, message me. (It's not very long, only 3-6 hours, pretty challenging on the higher difficulties, and a pretty serious story)

So yeah, I love the hell out of RPGmaker. And anyone who looks down on it, I laugh at.

 

[Ikasury]

the primary thing about it that annoys me is it doesn't really come with a manual, you kinda have to figure everything out on your own... and i dunno about you guys, but when i went asking for help on the forums i got snubed pretty much by everyone, going on about switches and stuff and how 'basic' it all was... sorry i've never had any programming experience and i thought i'd just get this thing for a bit of fun cause i've been so bored with most modern games...

to be honest i'd love to get into it more, but my experience was aggravating with 'help' and just had to figure some stuff out on my own, which even then isn't that much, but eh, its probably because i'm more the 'writing' type then this stuff, programming is like doing everything backwards, its weird to me *shrugs*

but hey, if you say it can do all this stuff sure why not, i felt really limited, and it took me like two weeks just to do a single scene before i just put it on the shelf... still don't know how to get random monster battles on maps =3=

 

[Chaos James]

I've played around with it and loved it a fair bit, programming little games with my friend. I moved away from it though as the graphics got more in depth (which was nice, but harder to change) and I was more interested in programming Zelda-like and Platformers instead. While I can greatly appreciate anyone who designs a nice game, even if they use an Engine like RPG Maker (but I mean, come on, I don't get on Valve for using their Source engine or anyone using Unity or the CryEngine (unless they use the engine to phone in a pile of crap, XD)).

The only gripe I have with RPG Maker titles is when the creator uses all the default graphics. It sort of loses something when the game looks like every other RPG Maker title thrown up. I get that graphics are hard to make (VERY hard as I note every time I work on a game, XD) but, especially when released for money, having the default graphics sort of makes me not want to pay any attention to the game.

In the end though, beats making your own engine from scratch, and if you get a handle on it, it allows you to really enjoy the crafting experience of a game.

 

[Liberaliter]

I've used RPG Maker a lot and it's a really good tool, I think it succeeds in being a simple engine that anyone can make a game with, but whilst also being complex enough that more advanced users can tweak things to their liking and do a little more with it. I don't think anyone can complain with this engine setting out and succeeding at what it wants to do.

 

[Bad Jim]

If the effort of coding your own engine seemed like too much work, you may have put less effort into making your game than was required to make it great. Dare I suggest that you have produced a shit game?

You do know that most games are coded using a preexisting engine, right? Speaking as a professional programmer, finding a tool that already does what you want to do is far more efficient than making it yourself. This is why JQuery exists.

I really don't understand why so much of the indie game community condescends when someone chooses to use a tool like RPG Maker to make a game. If it is capable of doing what you need it to do then using a preexisting tool is a good thing. That is what real programmers do.

I never said you shouldn't use a product like RPG Maker, or middleware or any other way to get the same result with less effort. I meant that a history of abandoned projects that never went beyond a basic engine was a telltale sign that he had not put enough effort into his RPG either, with the predictable result that no-one liked it.

It's easy to fall into the trap of making an RPG in a weekend, massively overrating your work and then getting surprised when everyone considers it a waste of time. Making a good RPG is still hard, even when the engine and artwork are done for you.

 

[Aluwolf]

To the Moon is enough for me to like it. I can see why some people don't like it, I've played about 5 different RPG maker games and aesthetically they all look like they are made by the same person, way too cut and paste.

 

[aozgolo]

Well I do use RPGMaker, I have the latest incarnation of RPG Maker VX Ace (which is MILES above the past offerings in terms of flexibility). I think the problem lies with people assuming that the quickly hobbled together amateur games are the EXTENT of what can be done on the tool and it's simply not true. I've seen people here comment it's really only good for making like Final Fantasy IV style RPGs but I think that's only if you neglect the capacity of the eventing and scripting system it uses. There are admittedly limitations to it, it is a 2D engine, and coding anything like a 3D Engine or a Multiplayer option in it, while probably possible to some degree, is way more trouble than it's worth.

I will however say and STAND by the assertion that RPGMaker can make a game that's quality is equal or better than ANY 2D RPG period, it's not a limitation of the system, it's limited solely by the person/team using it.

Look at some of the top 2D RPGs:

Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy VI
Earthbound
Suikoden II
Wild ARMs
Secret of Mana
Dragon Quest V
Harvest Moon

All of these are possible to make in RPGMaker, though some may understandably be frustrated that it's not an "out of the box" experience for everything. In the RPGMaker Community I've seen awesome scripts that do things like pixel-by-pixel movement, active time battle systems, even action battle systems, first person dungeons (IE: Lands of Lore, Ultima), etc.

Much of this stuff can even be done without touching the scripting system and just using events.

Many people I am sure just get the program, use the base assets and cobble together a quick indie game and throw it out there, nothing wrong with that but I understand why most wouldn't consider that a commercial quality game. I see absolutely no reason why this tool in the right hands can't make amazing first rate commercial games.

The ONLY serious difference I see between this engine and others out there is the ease of which one can get into development. As of right now there are at least 8 RPGMaker Engine Games on Steam, one of which uses the default graphics that come with the game, and it's still awesome because it really shows some of things the engine in capable of (Last Dream).

If people don't like the engine that's fine, don't play the games, if people do like it but don't want to pay money for it, that's fine, there's hundreds of free RPGMaker games out there to try. I don't see the point in hating every game made with a specific engine but I guess I sort of understand it happens and isn't limited to just these kind of engines. People to this day still call Fallout 3 "Oblivion with Guns" simply for re-using the same engine.

My advice: If you want to make a retro-style 2D RPG then I would seriously recommend RPG Maker as an option, it is not the ONLY option, other RPG Making Software exists (EasyRPG, RPG Toolkit, etc.) but the tool is only limited by how much work you want to put in.